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Question: Would you prefer US style paying to receive calls?

Yes    
  8 (20.0%)
No    
  29 (72.5%)
Not sure    
  3 (7.5%)
Don't mind    
  0 (0.0%)




Total votes: 40
« Created by: bbb_uk on: Sep 6th, 2008 at 8:12pm »

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U.S. style 'Pay to receive' mobile charges coming? (Read 26,462 times)
Heinz
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U.S. style 'Pay to receive' mobile charges coming?
Aug 28th, 2008 at 10:27pm
 
The official news release from Ofcom is here:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/news/2008/08/nr_20080828

The consultation document and summary are here:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/msa08/



See HERE.

But the most interesting part is the unbelievably hypocritical  comment from Ofcom's Mr Richards, who said:
Quote:
Ofcom would endeavour to protect users under any new regime. "The interests of the consumer will be at the heart of any decision we make. It's absolutely our responsibility," he said.

Incredible.
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« Last Edit: Nov 6th, 2008 at 1:52pm by Dave »  

ESSEX COUNTY COUNCIL - When are you going to STOP ignoring government guidelines and RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers with your use of 0845 numbers?
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bbb_uk
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Re: U.S. style 'Pay to receive' mobile charges com
Reply #1 - Aug 28th, 2008 at 10:41pm
 

Sounds like OfcoN are talking total BS to me.  They have yet to show interest in consumers!

Anyhow that to one side, I have no intention of paying to receive calls.  I don't believe it will save money for us consumers and comparing how much it costs us for calls compared to States is unrealistic because most things in the states is cheaper anyhow.

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« Last Edit: Sep 7th, 2008 at 3:34pm by DaveM »  
 
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irrelevant
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Re: U.S. style 'Pay to receive' mobile charges com
Reply #2 - Aug 28th, 2008 at 11:41pm
 
Unless I was given simultaneously an option to "whitelist" a selection of people I would only accept calls from, I would not accept such a charge.  PAY to receive calls?   It's a licence for the companies to print money!  It's bad enough getting the odd sales call as it is, without being made to pay for it!!
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irrelevant
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Re: U.S. style 'Pay to receive' mobile charges com
Reply #3 - Aug 28th, 2008 at 11:48pm
 
OK, Ofcom's actual news release is here.  The only mention of termination charges is Quote:
in 2007, Ofcom set mobile termination rates, the charges that operators make to connect calls to each others’ networks, to come down year on year. Ofcom’s consultation asks whether this approach to regulation is appropriate for the future or whether there are more attractive alternatives;
.  
Links to the consultation document are there, for formal responses, but they've also got a blog and informal "interactive" page for comments too.  
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« Last Edit: Aug 28th, 2008 at 11:49pm by irrelevant »  
 
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Ofcom considering US style charge for mobiles
Reply #4 - Aug 29th, 2008 at 12:20pm
 
Oh Dear: it seems Ofcom are now considering US-style charges for mobiles, so that subscribers will pay for incoming calls! This will open the door for a further conman's Eutopia. We already have the scam of NGNs other then 09 being used as Premium numbers, 0800, 0500 etc. supposed Freephone numbers which are not free and are charged for twice over, Unsolicited Premium text messages, 09 numbers with queuing allowed (for short periods!), Trojan diallers and other scam potential allowed and condoned by the useless Ofcom. Now we have the prospect of unsolicited mobile calls costing us money!

It seems the only answer will be to keep your mobile switched off unless you decide to make a call? Where will Rip-off Britain end?
See http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/bbphone/article.html?in_article_id=451215&in_page_i...
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Ofcom are completely ineffectual
 
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Re: Ofcom considering US style charge for mobiles
Reply #5 - Aug 29th, 2008 at 1:26pm
 
I actually don't think this would be such a bad idea - if it's implemented properly. You would need to be able to cancel/reject a call without inuring cost, or even block numbers from calling you.

At the moment there's no call cost clarity over what it costs to call non fixed lines (ie mobiles, non-geo, etc) - with this plan, then calling anyone on a fixed line or mobile would cost the same (be it per call/per minute/fixed plan, etc).

This would further highlight the stupid exemptions from current calling plans: 084/087/etc, which we all loathe so much - and would/should hopefully highlight to the general public that numbers beginning 08 cost (more) to call.

Martin.
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Re: Ofcom considering US style charge for mobiles
Reply #6 - Aug 29th, 2008 at 5:36pm
 
ms01 wrote on Aug 29th, 2008 at 1:26pm:
I actually don't think this would be such a bad idea - if it's implemented properly. You would need to be able to cancel/reject a call without inuring cost, or even block numbers from calling you.

At the moment there's no call cost clarity over what it costs to call non fixed lines (ie mobiles, non-geo, etc) - with this plan, then calling anyone on a fixed line or mobile would cost the same (be it per call/per minute/fixed plan, etc).
Why would it improve call cost clarity?  Network operators (mobiles and landline) are obligated to be more transparent with regards to cost of calls to non-geo but most dont really bother simply because it's not in their favour to highlight how expensive it costs to call these type of numbers.

It may mean slightly cheaper outgoing call costs to landline and mobiles but that would be at the expense of the called party paying for the call which some may (me included) either refuse to answer to talk for long periods.

Are receiving calls included in monthly inclusive tariffs in the states?  If no, then as well as paying monthly fee you also pay to receive calls.  If yes, then is it unlimited incoming calls or limited and possibly shared with outgoing calls made!!!

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« Last Edit: Aug 29th, 2008 at 5:37pm by bbb_uk »  
 
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Re: U.S. style 'Pay to receive' mobile charges com
Reply #7 - Aug 30th, 2008 at 5:37am
 
Quote:
Are receiving calls included in monthly inclusive tariffs in the states?  If no, then as well as paying monthly fee you also pay to receive calls.  If yes, then is it unlimited incoming calls or limited and possibly shared with outgoing calls made!!!


In the US, you purchase a bundle of "minutes", whether pre- or post-paid. The more you pay up front, the more minutes you get and the lower the effective price per call ie it's not a linear relationship. What this really implies is a set amount of "airtime". In other words, your included minutes includes all the time you are transmitting and / or receiving on your phone - whether that call was made by you, or received by you. Although it would appear to be a more expensive system, it does seem to work reasonably well (can ANY mobile call cost be called reasonable...... Wink ). Remember, calls to mobile numbers in the US cost exactly the same as a call to a landline. One huge advantage with that is that your landline phone bill is the same whether you call, say, 100 landline numbers or 100 mobile numbers. Certainly removes the often quoted moan from doctors that they '....have to pay so much to call patients on their mobiles'. Now if that were also introduced in the UK, it would be a revolution! And, after all, it really is for the convenience of the called party in having the mobile, and not the caller - so why should he or she pay?

In theory, of course, you could have a situation where you used all your airtime receiving calls. Unlikely, though.

I don't think it is only the US that uses this system. Canada, obviously and also Hong Kong and possibly China?
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Re: U.S. style 'Pay to receive' mobile charges com
Reply #8 - Sep 2nd, 2008 at 11:12am
 
Members may be interested in this response by the National Consumer Council to a consultation by Oftel in 2003 on mobile termination charges:

http://www.ncc.org.uk/nccpdf/poldocs/NCC037cr_mobile_termination.pdf
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Re: U.S. style 'Pay to receive' mobile charges com
Reply #9 - Sep 2nd, 2008 at 4:09pm
 

The NCC makes a good argument to show that there is no competitive market governing termination rates at present. If the cost fell on the renter of the mobile then this would emerge. It also rightly points out that there is little relationship between costs and charges.

It does however not require too much imagination to conclude that the change being discussed would alter the profile of mobile use in the UK significantly. This has developed to where it is now with no relationship between costs and charges. Free handsets cause the poorest to use the more expensive means of communication. Texting has become a major phenomenon amongst the youth of the country because it is subsidised unwittingly by calls from anxious parents.

Whatever the merits of any change towards a more direct relationship between costs and charges, the market is so far away from this that Ofcom is unlikely to be ready suffer the criticism it would face in compelling such a dramatic change. By its very constitution, Ofcom is compelled to believe that competitive markets exist and that consumer choice is both the right primary means of control and one that it has effectively enabled.

If someone would like to propose a date on which a fundamental change to the whole basis of every mobile contract (including PAYG) could occur, so that every user (over 100% of the population according to statistics) could return their phone and start again, then this radical proposal could perhaps be taken seriously. My own prediction would be that this date would have to follow that on which telecomms in the UK is re-nationalised, so that its governing body (the replacement for Ofcom) was in a position to take the firm radical action often called for in this forum.
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« Last Edit: Sep 7th, 2008 at 3:33pm by DaveM »  
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Re: U.S. style 'Pay to receive' mobile charges com
Reply #10 - Sep 6th, 2008 at 8:19pm
 
I have created a quick poll on whether or not U.S. style pay to receive calls is preferred over our current method of caller pays?

Please feel free to vote - I have set the time limit to 1 day for those that may want to change their mind
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Re: U.S. style 'Pay to receive' mobile charges com
Reply #11 - Sep 6th, 2008 at 11:23pm
 
Can we confirm that the very straightforward question in the poll invites us to simply express a preference as if in a hypothetical ideal world.

Nobody has yet offered any serious proposal for how such a dramatic change to the current UK market could be brought about and how the issue of unsolicited calls could be dealt with. If any such proposal were offered up to the vote, the results would be likely to be very different. Unless something very clever, that addressed all of the relevant issues, were dreamed up, my "yes" would undoubtedly become a "no".

We are at a very early stage, however the present voting suggests that, on balance, members prefer callers to pay. I find this surprising, given that the general theme of this website is that those who utilise additional technology on the telephone network should bear the cost of doing so themselves, rather than imposing it on others.
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« Last Edit: Sep 6th, 2008 at 11:25pm by SilentCallsVictim »  
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Re: U.S. style 'Pay to receive' mobile charges com
Reply #12 - Sep 7th, 2008 at 8:30am
 
Given the current way our mobile phone system is set up, it would seem grossly unfair for a mobile phone "holder" to pay for both the incoming and outgoing calls. I think that it is generally accepted that you are going to pay a slight premium to call a mobile phone.

I've voted "no", given all the scamming and high call prices that currently dog mobile phone users. However, if such problems could be rectified (somehow!), then I might be persuaded to vote "yes". I'm not holding my breath thought...  Undecided
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Re: U.S. style 'Pay to receive' mobile charges com
Reply #13 - Sep 7th, 2008 at 11:24am
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Sep 6th, 2008 at 11:23pm:
Can we confirm that the very straightforward question in the poll invites us to simply express a preference as if in a hypothetical ideal world.
Yes.  I didn't want to over complicate anything.

jgxenite wrote on Sep 7th, 2008 at 8:30am:
Given the current way our mobile phone system is set up, it would seem grossly unfair for a mobile phone "holder" to pay for both the incoming and outgoing calls. I think that it is generally accepted that you are going to pay a slight premium to call a mobile phone.

I've voted "no", given all the scamming and high call prices that currently dog mobile phone users. However, if such problems could be rectified (somehow!), then I might be persuaded to vote "yes". I'm not holding my breath thought...  Undecided
Same here.  Yes, it may work in the US but they generally have lower prices for most things and don't have hidden premium rate numbers like we do.

Even if it was adopted I don't believe it would work same as it does in the US with their type of call rates, all that would happen is that calling a mobile may get slightly reduced.

After all we live in Ripp Of Britain (ROB)!
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« Last Edit: Sep 7th, 2008 at 11:27am by bbb_uk »  
 
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Re: U.S. style 'Pay to receive' mobile charges com
Reply #14 - Sep 7th, 2008 at 3:02pm
 
Indeed.  If calling a mobile costs the same as a geographic call, then it might be acceptable for the called party to pay a slight premium to cover the difference.  ( I can quite see the situation arising where they reduce the caller's costs only slightly, and charge the callee, with the total being more than the present call costs!

I'm sure that Orange used to offer geographic numbers for their mobiles, with incoming calls being charged per minute.  Can't find a referance at the moment though.
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