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Talk Talk to make 0845/0870 calls free. (Read 21,919 times)
oldharryrocks
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Talk Talk to make 0845/0870 calls free.
Mar 12th, 2009 at 9:04am
 
TT are going to make 0845/0870 calls free/inclusive ,and are going to offer free local calls to line rental customers only. CPS customers will not qualify. Needless to say they have put up their prices etc to cover this.

See: http://www.talktalk.co.uk/pricechanges

No mention of a fair use policy yet,but following applies.

"The availability of free 0845 and 0870 calls excludes indirect access numbers and dial-up Internet access. The inclusive call limit of 60mins also applies to these calls."

"Non-inclusive 0870 and 0845 calls will be charged at the same rates as standard local or national calls." 


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« Last Edit: Mar 12th, 2009 at 9:16am by oldharryrocks »  
 
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jgxenite
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Re: Talk Talk to make 0845/0870 calls free.
Reply #1 - Mar 12th, 2009 at 9:17am
 
Seems they still don't get it that local/national rate doesn't exist any more:

"Non-inclusive 0870 and 0845 calls will be charged at the same rates as standard local or national calls."
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redant
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Re: Talk Talk to make 0845/0870 calls free.
Reply #2 - Mar 12th, 2009 at 1:31pm
 
And I note they did not pass on the 2 1/2% VAT cut.
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Re: Talk Talk to make 0845/0870 calls free.
Reply #3 - Mar 12th, 2009 at 5:31pm
 
Now that 0845 & 0870 are included in whatever BT package I'm on (free anytime calls (Option 3??)), should I still look for geographic alternatives, or ring them anyway knowing that BT are paying for them? After all didn't BT invent them in the first place? A slight moral dilemma for me and yes I do intend to get out more (when the weather improves).
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Re: Talk Talk to make 0845/0870 calls free.
Reply #4 - Mar 12th, 2009 at 9:46pm
 
Is all this (0845/0870 "free") not cross-subsidy?
I thought that the regulator took a dim view of such a practice.
(Sorry, NGM and SCV, using regulator and think in the same sentence.)
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Talk Talk to make 0845/0870 calls free.
Reply #5 - Mar 12th, 2009 at 10:04pm
 
Tanllan wrote on Mar 12th, 2009 at 9:46pm:
Is all this (0845/0870 "free") not cross-subsidy?

Since when was anything of any value that was given for "free" by a commercial business not cross-subsidised?

We must never forget that the 0800 number used by the sales or service department is paid for out of the price charged for the product or service.


It is very interesting to see the Carphone Warehouse Group joining in with BT. Opal Telecom (TalkTalk's sister company providing services to business) is one of those disputing the attempt by BT to lower the termination charges for 0870 calls to that of ordinary numbers.

I am waiting for the TalkTalk press release that announces how its customers will now be able to call doctors for the same price as a local number. This will indicate that Carphone Warehouse is ready to let Surgery Line users switch from 0844 to 03 numbers for the remainder of their contract with Opal, whilst paying nothing for the extra network features and continuing to get a call rebate to help pay off their leases.
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« Last Edit: Mar 12th, 2009 at 10:10pm by SilentCallsVictim »  
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NGMsGhost
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Re: Talk Talk to make 0845/0870 calls free.
Reply #6 - Mar 16th, 2009 at 3:40pm
 
To my mind this whole move is part of a last ditch effort by the telcos to head off the killing of the revenue share cash cow that would be implicit in a wide spread move to 03 (where the call recipient is in charge of the real bill for the NTS facilities it uses rather than than the cost being paid by the customer who is not aware of it)

Instead the high rip off revenue shares implicit in 0845 and 0870 will be embedded and the customers made to pay for the revenue share whether they use 0845 or 0870 numbers or not.  It is of course notable that so far 0844 has not been  included but one wonders if that is not BT's next gambit just as the consultation on 0844 number use by GPs closes.

Any member of this site should be looking to move their business away from a telco that includes free 0845 and 0870 calls to one with the lowest line rental price that does not include them.  However unfortunately I fear that the Significant Market Power of the BT group means that all its competitors will follow suit in offering inclusive 0845 and 0870 calls at a higher line rental fee so there will be no way to do this.

An interesting point of speculation is what will happen over in mobile phone land where the inclusive status of 0845 and 0870 calls in call packages on landlines must eventually bring pressure to bear for the mobile operators to follow suit.

All these things are very bad news for single person households and badly off households who make few phone calls as the cost of line rental will go up and up and up to pay for all these revenue share rip off calls being inclusive and you will be forced to pay for other people using the ripoff numbers whether or not you call them yourself. Shocked Angry Smiley Smiley Smiley

Unfortunately I find I can no longer pursue this campaign with the impressive level of campaigning energy shown by SCV since I have come to realise that whatever we do the telcos hold all the trump cards in the deck and can always rejig the whole disgusting system against us just as we think we are winning. Angry Angry Angry

By the way I suspect that "Foreign Exchange Rate Levy" on credit cards is another example of revenue sharing where the customer is made to pay more for the card issuer then getting various services from Visa or Mastercard at an ever cheaper rate.
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« Last Edit: Mar 16th, 2009 at 3:40pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Dave
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Re: Talk Talk to make 0845/0870 calls free.
Reply #7 - Mar 16th, 2009 at 9:51pm
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Mar 16th, 2009 at 3:40pm:
Instead the high rip off revenue shares implicit in 0845 and 0870 will be embedded and the customers made to pay for the revenue share whether they use 0845 or 0870 numbers or not. …

It is imperative that consumers don't think that they are acceptable because they are included in packages. In some ways, it will be better if mobile providers don't include them because it will make it easier for us to argue against their use.

NGMsGhost wrote on Mar 16th, 2009 at 3:40pm:
… It is of course notable that so far 0844 has not been  included but one wonders if that is not BT's next gambit just as the consultation on 0844 number use by GPs closes.

That won't happen; it doesn't make sense.

The BT call rate for blocks of 0844 and 0871 numbers are set by their respective network providers. This is so that they can be guaranteed the termination payments you refer to.

Your suggestion is that BT might like to cover the cost of termination charges of almost 5ppm for 0844 numbers.
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« Last Edit: Mar 16th, 2009 at 9:54pm by Dave »  
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NGMsGhost
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Re: Talk Talk to make 0845/0870 calls free.
Reply #8 - Mar 16th, 2009 at 10:13pm
 
Dave wrote on Mar 16th, 2009 at 9:51pm:
The BT call rate for blocks of 0844 and 0871 numbers are set by their respective network providers. This is so that they can be guaranteed the termination payments you refer to.

Your suggestion is that BT might like to cover the cost of termination charges of almost 5ppm for 0844 numbers.


What about BT allowing up to say 30 minutes of calls a month to 0844 (and increasing the line rental another £1 per month to pay for it) since as you say they can't afford a substantial amount of calls in the way that they can manage with 0845 and 0870 numbers.

That would be enough for the likes of Sky and the NEG using doctors to be able to then go on claiming the call was not premium rate, even though you wouldn't have enough minutes to call the whole damn lot of them. Angry
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Dave
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Re: Talk Talk to make 0845/0870 calls free.
Reply #9 - Mar 16th, 2009 at 11:27pm
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Mar 16th, 2009 at 10:13pm:
What about BT allowing up to say 30 minutes of calls a month to 0844 (and increasing the line rental another £1 per month to pay for it) since as you say they can't afford a substantial amount of calls in the way that they can manage with 0845 and 0870 numbers.

When the termination payments for 0845 and 0870 calls are recalculated BT will not make a loss. This is down to the NTS Condition which regulates how much BT keeps for 08 and 09 calls. So BT line rental is not subsidising inclusive 0845 and 0870 calls.


Remember, for 0844 calls BT must:

1. Retail calls at the rate specified by each respective block's network operator.
2. Retain a regulated amount, as defined under the NTS Condition.

It may be the case that BT is under obligation to retail 0844 calls at the respective rate full stop.
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Re: Talk Talk to make 0845/0870 calls free.
Reply #10 - May 14th, 2009 at 10:43am
 
Source: FT

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/e4e39300-3bec-11de-acbc-00144feabdc0,s01=1.html

Deal of the Week: Free calls to 0870 and 0845 numbers

By Steve Lodge
Published: May 8 2009 18:09 | Last updated: May 8 2009 18:09

What’s the deal?

TalkTalk is offering free calls to 0870 and 0845 numbers for customers on its monthly phone plans. These “national” and “local rate” codes – which can cost up to 10p or 7p a minute respectively to call from fixed-line phones – are commonly used by businesses for customer information and helplines.

From next month, the Carphone Warehouse-owned provider is including the numbers in phone packages for households that also have line rental through the company.

The deal covers existing customers as well as new ones, and applies to the company’s Essentials plan (which includes broadband internet access) as well as Talk UK Weekend, Talk UK Evening and Weekend, and Talk UK Anytime tariffs.

Is this good?

With households said to spend typically 30 minutes a month phoning “non-geographic” numbers, having these codes included in phone plans could save several pounds a month.

TalkTalk is already particularly competitive for packages combining home phone and broadband, according to Moneysavingexpert.com, the consumer website.

The improved deal follows a similar move by BT, the market leader, to include 0870 and 0845 numbers in its call plans earlier this year, benefiting 14m customers.

[…]


We mustn't get carried away here! Including 0845 and 0870 calls in inclusive tariffs does nothing to alleviate the underlying costs for these types of numbers which must be passed back to the caller.
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Re: Talk Talk to make 0845/0870 calls free.
Reply #11 - May 14th, 2009 at 11:37am
 
Why do they continue to state these calls are FREE? When they blatantly are not!

FREE means zero cost, which none of these calls are as you need to pay a line rental to receive the "inclusive" calls, therefore the correct,(and not misleading), term should be; - INCLUSIVE!
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