Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
SAYNOTO0870.COM

<---- Back to main website

 
Home Help Search Login Register

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 
Send Topic Print
Ofcom and Silent Calls (Read 77,347 times)
Dave
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male
Re: Ofcom and Silent Calls
Reply #45 - Feb 1st, 2011 at 8:22pm
 
loddon wrote on Feb 1st, 2011 at 8:41am:
The answers offered by Ofcom were extremely disappointing as the Ofcom attitude is that some silent calls to members of the public is quite acceptable and would be technically difficult for commercial companies to avoid. …

Indeed.

Am I right in saying that Answering Machine Detection is a system whose purpose is to detect mechanical answering machines. That is ones that plug in to a subscriber's line and has a tape. Does this also work for electronic answering machines?

As most answering services are network based (i.e. they are not an answering machine box plugged into subscribers' lines but operated by telephone companies an example of which is BT1571) then are more appropriate solution should be installed to cope with these.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Feb 1st, 2011 at 8:56pm by Dave »  
 
IP Logged
 
SilentCallsVictim
Supreme Member
*****
Offline


aka NHS.Patient, DH_fairtelecoms

Posts: 2,494
Re: Ofcom and Silent Calls
Reply #46 - Feb 1st, 2011 at 9:06pm
 
Dave wrote on Feb 1st, 2011 at 8:22pm:
loddon wrote on Feb 1st, 2011 at 8:41am:
The answers offered by Ofcom were extremely disappointing as the Ofcom attitude is that some silent calls to members of the public is quite acceptable and would be technically difficult for commercial companies to avoid. …

Indeed.

Am I right in saying that Answering Machine Detection is a system whose purpose is to detect mechanical answering machines. That is ones that plug in to a subscriber's line and has a tape. Does this also work for electronic answering machines?

As most answering services are network based (i.e. they are not an answering machine plugged into subscribers' lines but operated by telephone companies an example of which is BT1571) then are more appropriate solution should be installed to cope with these.

AMD was designed for the purpose of detecting mechanical answering machines by listening to the sound made when the call is answered. When use of an answering machine was clearly and promptly indicated by the clicks and whirrs of a tape starting up, this was very effective. It has been adapted to try to detect different speech patterns thought to be used when preparing answering service announcements as against anwering the phone in person. Clearly this approach could never be expected to be reliable - therefore live people are commonly mistaken for recordings.

Ofcom has now decided that these inevitable mistakes should be limited to one per caller per person per day.

AMD also causes "supposed Silent Calls". The period of silence at the beginning of every call when AMD is deployed commonly creates the impression that the call will remain Silent. Even though an agent would have spoken eventually, the effect is exactly the same as a Silent Call.

The revised Ofcom policy, implemented today, signifies approval of both of these types of Silent Call.

There are acceptable alternative approaches available to avoid all Silent Calls without impacting on the effectiveness or efficiency of the call centre industry.

Those interested in the campaign to stop Silent Calls may wish to follow my comments and noted coverage of the topic by viewing and perhaps subscribing to this feed. (Note - this is currently being updated to reflect many developments today - please email or PM me with suggestions of items for inclusion.)
Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
sherbert
Supreme Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2,011
Gender: male
Re: Ofcom and Silent Calls
Reply #47 - Feb 10th, 2011 at 9:50am
 
From today's Daily Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/media...


Ofcom needs to do more to stop silent calls

Ofcom, the telephone and internet regulator, needs to do more to stop the nuisance of silent calls, according to an influential committee of MPs.

By Harry Wallop, Consumer Affairs Editor 7:00AM GMT 10 Feb 2011



Silent calls usually occur when companies dial several numbers at once but then fail to have a staff member lined up to speak when a call is answered. This leaves residents sometimes confused and frequently annoyed that their time has been wasted. Many older people complain of feeling harrassed by silent calls.

Ofcom said more than 9,000 complaints were made about silent calls last year.

Last year the regulator increased the maximum possible fine to £2 million, but the Public Accounts Committee said that more needed to be done to tackle the problem and that there was evidence that the number of silent calls was just as high as a few years ago.

Ofcom said that though the complaints had risen in recent years, the number of people affected by silent calls had actually fallen. However, it did admit to the committee that about 23 per cent of people who have actually experienced silent calls have been caused anxiety by it, which was too high a number.

The report into Ofcom found that the regulator had done mostly a good job at ensuring competition flourished in the telecoms market and that prices for consumers were falling. But it needed to do more to encourage people to switch their landline telephone provider to help further drive down householders' telephone bills


################################################################################
#################



So, how are we able to report the silent calls to ofcom, when invariably the number is with held? Undecided
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
catj
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 366
Re: Ofcom and Silent Calls
Reply #48 - Feb 21st, 2011 at 8:30pm
 
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
SilentCallsVictim
Supreme Member
*****
Offline


aka NHS.Patient, DH_fairtelecoms

Posts: 2,494
Re: Ofcom and Silent Calls
Reply #49 - Feb 21st, 2011 at 9:13pm
 
catj wrote on Feb 21st, 2011 at 8:30pm:
Page 11 and 12 mention silent calls and some stats:

This is sadly familiar twaddle.

Not one of the 15,000 complaints about Silent Calls made to Ofcom in 2009 and 2010 enabled it to identify a single company that was worthy of being issued with a Notification of Persistent Misuse, let alone being subjected to an enforceable requirement to cease, and therefore no-one could be subjected to a financial penalty.

The "Consumer Concerns" survey is clearly dodgy as it suggests that more people experience non-Silent "Abandoned Calls", where the caller plays an Informative Message giving their name and apologising, than receive Silent Calls. I have never even heard of anyone who has received an "Abandoned Call" (as defined by Ofcom).

One thing is for certain; far more people now understand what Silent Calls are and most of us now accept them as a fact of life because Ofcom is doing nothing effective to stop this nuisance.

Very very few cases of Silent Calls are actually reported to Ofcom. The level of complaints provides a very poor indicator of the extent of the nuisance. Because Ofcom measures its success by the number of complaints and more complaints are made whenever the issue comes up in the media, any action by Ofcom would be seen as failure.

The statistics that I would like to see are those for the number of Silent Calls that Ofcom knows are being made within its tolerances.
Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
sherbert
Supreme Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2,011
Gender: male
Re: Ofcom and Silent Calls
Reply #50 - Feb 22nd, 2011 at 11:07am
 
So, if Ofcom and the general public are unable to find the source of these silent calls, the threat of all these fines that Ofcom promise, seem very hollow to me. How can they fine these outfits if they do not know who they are? Huh

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Dave
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male
Re: Ofcom and Silent Calls
Reply #51 - Feb 22nd, 2011 at 11:11am
 
sherbert wrote on Feb 22nd, 2011 at 11:07am:
So, if Ofcom and the general public are unable to find the source of these silent calls, the threat of all these fines that Ofcom promise, seem very hollow to me. How can they fine these outfits if they do not know who they are? Huh

Indeed.... And even if it did know, Ofcom would have to find evidence of a particular company making over and above its permitted number of silent calls before considering any such fine.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Feb 22nd, 2011 at 11:36am by Dave »  
 
IP Logged
 
SilentCallsVictim
Supreme Member
*****
Offline


aka NHS.Patient, DH_fairtelecoms

Posts: 2,494
Re: Ofcom and Silent Calls
Reply #52 - Feb 22nd, 2011 at 2:17pm
 
Dave wrote on Feb 22nd, 2011 at 11:11am:
sherbert wrote on Feb 22nd, 2011 at 11:07am:
So, if Ofcom and the general public are unable to find the source of these silent calls, the threat of all these fines that Ofcom promise, seem very hollow to me. How can they fine these outfits if they do not know who they are? Huh

Indeed.... And even if it did know, Ofcom would have to find evidence of a particular company making over and above its permitted number of silent calls before considering any such fine.

Forget about fines and the Silent Callers that Ofcom cannot identify ...

Ofcom's first power, which it has a duty to use whenever it can, is to issue a public Notification to anyone found to be engaged in persistent misuse of an electronic communications network or service (Communications Act S128). The imposition of specific enforceable requirements and financial penalties may follow (under the terms of Sections 129 and 130). Ofcom is actually misusing the powers which it has been given by parliament.


According to an analysis of Silent Calls complaints received by Ofcom in 2009 (see section 2.3, pdf page 10), 82% of these complaints included evidence from which the caller could be identified. This is hardly surprising, seeing as there would be appear to be little point in taking the trouble to make a complaint unless one is able to provide information that could lead to action. Furthermore, the instances of misuse which generate complaints to Ofcom are also likely to be those where the nuisance has been intense. Ofcom's apparent failure to take a balanced view, developing policy based on dubious statistical analysis of complaints, is a disgrace and a neglect of its duty.

A public body acting to further the interests of citizens should not behave like a consumer complaints department. It must however use the information that comes to its attention in the performance of its wider duties. (The first complaint about Silent Calls that Ofcom received reported only 2 Silent Calls to one person. The subsequent investigation revealed 1.5 million Silent Calls having been made in a three month period.)


The other information in this report is hard to process, but it seems that the complaints being analysed each related on average to around 20 calls (some were only about one, but others about over 200). A simple extension, assuming that the sample was representative, indicates that from the 6,648 complaints received in 2009 Ofcom had evidence of the originators responsible for over 100,000 Silent Calls.

Ofcom has confirmed that it undertook secret investigations into 22 unnamed companies around this time. Not one of these companies was considered by Ofcom to have misused an electronic communications network or service.

There will always be people who break the law and Ofcom's resources to conduct investigations must be finite.

Ofcom however fails to confirm that hanging up in silence as a matter of habit will be considered as "persistent misuse", whenever Ofcom becomes aware of it. It is also seen to have treated 100% of the information it is given by citizens (over 15,000 cases in 2009 and 2010) as worthless with respect to use of its statutory powers. In response to criticism from the National Audit Office and the Public Accounts Committee, an Ofcom representative appears on national TV to announce the implementation of a new policy which will allow one Silent Call per recipient per caller per day (see this comment).


I have always argued that Ofcom should deal with companies like British Gas and BT, which are prepared to admit to making Silent Calls (see their comments here), first. When we have cleared out the nuisance of Silent Calls from reputable companies, then we can see what needs to be done about the rest.
Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
SilentCallsVictim
Supreme Member
*****
Offline


aka NHS.Patient, DH_fairtelecoms

Posts: 2,494
Re: Ofcom and Silent Calls
Reply #53 - Mar 2nd, 2011 at 4:34pm
 
Members may be interested to read an article about the closely related issue of fully automated calls - those where there is no intention of having an agent handle the call when it is answered.

Automated outbound calls: the good, the bad and the ugly

(I accept that this is strictly speaking totally off-topic. These calls are never Silent and generally not the responsibility of Ofcom to deal with them!)
Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Dave
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male
Re: Ofcom and Silent Calls
Reply #54 - Mar 17th, 2011 at 9:08pm
 
Source:

http://davidhicksonmedia.blogspot.com/2011/01/new-ofcom-rules-for-silent-callers...

Quote:
The new rules only cover the practice of calling to the same person again on the same day after thinking a machine has answered. …

So does this mean that when the AMD thinks that a person has answered, and there is a silent call because no agent is available, the company in question is permitted to make multiple silent calls to the same person in the same day?

If so, then the "rules" only prevent repeated silent calls to any number when it is thought that an answering machine answers?  Huh
Back to top
« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2011 at 9:13pm by Dave »  
 
IP Logged
 
SilentCallsVictim
Supreme Member
*****
Offline


aka NHS.Patient, DH_fairtelecoms

Posts: 2,494
Re: Ofcom and Silent Calls
Reply #55 - Mar 17th, 2011 at 9:42pm
 
Dave wrote on Mar 17th, 2011 at 9:08pm:
... If so, then the "rules" only prevent repeated silent calls to any number when it is thought that an answering machine answers?

That is what the new "rules" cover.

We must remember that these are not actually "enforceable regulations", as Ofcom has no statutory authority to impose general regulations on the use of automatic diallers. They are simply indications of how Ofcom will consider whether or not citizens have been subjected to unnecessary inconvenience, annoyance or anxiety. Given that Ofcom accepts that any Silent Call may cause inconvenience annoyance or anxiety, it clearly deems it "necessary" that people may receive at least one a day.

We could of course receive Silent Calls from many different callers during a day, but find it difficult to know if we should feel inconvenienced, annoyed or anxious because all of the calls sound the same, so we cannot be sure if they are from different callers. It is even more difficult to know whether we should ever feel this way about Silent Calls because those who make sufficient non-Silent calls to remain within Ofcom's 3% limit are not deemed to be practising persistent misuse. No matter how hard you listen, you cannot know what other calls that caller may have made that day.

Rant over; I will address the question. Ofcom's existing, unchanged policy states that those who make Silent Calls because they are unable to provide an agent to speak, and do so in more than 3% of cases will be looked on more kindly if they have a policy of not calling back to those who they have subjected to this nuisance, so as to apologise and reassure them, for at least 72 hours, unless an agent attends the call from when it is dialled. Ofcom appears to be obsessed with the issue of "repeat silent calls" so it is likely that someone who has been found to have breached the 3% rule, but applied the 3-day rule will be deemed not to have misused the telephone network.

Back to the rant; My personal view is that this delay business just totally misses the point. Silent Calls are unacceptable and totally unnecessary. Anyone who could start to think about delays before subsequent calls has already decided that Silent Calls are acceptable. To expect someone to comply with a requirement to wait before making a subsequent Silent Call, implies that you are content for them to make the first Silent Call - it is just nonsense.
Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
sherbert
Supreme Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2,011
Gender: male
Re: Ofcom and Silent Calls
Reply #56 - Jul 7th, 2011 at 7:50pm
 
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Dave
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male
Re: Ofcom and Silent Calls
Reply #57 - Jul 7th, 2011 at 7:59pm
 
I put npower silent calls into Google News and the top link was to the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/07/homeserve-npower-fines-silent-calls

Google quotes the article "The only acceptable limit for silent calls is 0%." which is a quote from a well known campaigner on this issue.

It couldn't be put any more succinctly!
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jul 7th, 2011 at 7:59pm by Dave »  
 
IP Logged
 
SilentCallsVictim
Supreme Member
*****
Offline


aka NHS.Patient, DH_fairtelecoms

Posts: 2,494
Re: Ofcom and Silent Calls
Reply #58 - Jul 8th, 2011 at 3:29am
 
Those interested in following this topic may wish to view (and perhaps subscribe to) a feed of my digest and links to news items and bloggings - no charge, no advertising on my sites.

If anything is thought worthy of discussion, it could be brought into the forum with comments.
Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
sherbert
Supreme Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2,011
Gender: male
Re: Ofcom and Silent Calls
Reply #59 - Apr 19th, 2012 at 4:58pm
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17769761


HomeServe fined £750,000 for silent and abandoned calls
Telephone The calls were made between 1 February and 21 March 2011


 

The HomeServe insurance and home repair company has been fined £750,000 for making too many silent or abandoned calls to potential customers.

The telecoms regulator Ofcom said Homeserve had been guilty of a serious breach of its rules on such calls.

Ofcom said it hoped the fine would send a "strong message" to all companies.

The Walsall based firm has offered to pay compensation of £10 each to the estimated 51,000 householders who were called in February and March last year.

The company blamed faulty equipment at a call centre firm which had been contracted to make the calls on its behalf.

"HomeServe identified the issue and promptly reported it to Ofcom, following an internal audit of all of HomeServe's telemarketing operations," the insurer said.

"The problem was identified as having resulted from the incorrect use of Answering Machine Detection technology via an outsourcer.

"HomeServe can also confirm that all of its dialler systems have been fully compliant with Ofcom regulations since 22 March 2011, following the rectification of the errors identified during HomeServe's audit," it added.

Ofcom's Consumer Group Director, Claudio Pollack, said: "Our rules are there to prevent consumers suffering annoyance, inconvenience or anxiety from silent or abandoned calls."

"We hope today's fine will send a strong message to all companies that use call centres that they need to ensure they are fully compliant with the rules or face the consequences."

Barclaycard was fined the then maximum fine of £50,000 for a similar offence in 2008.

The maximum potential fine was raised to £2m in September 2010.

Adam Scorer at Consumer Focus said he was pleased with the regulator's action.

"While silent and abandoned calls are usually caused by glitches in the technology rather than a deliberate act by sales staff, they are a nuisance and firms that do not control the technology show a lack of respect to consumers," he said.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 
Send Topic Print
(Moderators: bbb_uk, CJT-80, Dave, Forum Admin, DaveM)

Website and Content © 1999-2024 SAYNOTO0870.COM. All Rights Reserved.
Written permission is required to duplicate any of the content within this site.

WARNING: This is an open forum, posts are NOT endorsed by SAYNOTO0870.COM,
please exercise due caution when acting on any info from here.


SAYNOTO0870.COM » Powered by YaBB 2.5.2!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2024. All Rights Reserved.


Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge