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2011 CENSUS - Exclusively 0300 020 1xxx numbers! (Read 11,253 times)
Heinz
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2011 CENSUS - Exclusively 0300 020 1xxx numbers!
Mar 7th, 2011 at 12:46pm
 
The main Helpline is 0300 020 1101 (although they print it as 0300 0201 101 for some reason) and all the non-English speaking Helplines are in the same range.

Not an 084, 087, 01 or 02 number to be seen - so someone in government appears to have thought it through (at last).
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RadioGaGa
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Re: 2011 CENSUS - Exclusively 0300 020 1xxx number
Reply #1 - Mar 15th, 2011 at 1:38pm
 
Heinz why would you appear pleased that "someone in government appears to have thought it through (at last)."

This 0300 Census contact number is not a freephone number but a number charged at local rate, so once again we get fleeced for ever more 'stealth tax' albeit not as painful as the national rate call, but irritating that there is no standard landline number equivalent to use.

The Census contact land line number is 01329 444972, but there is no way you get 2011 Census info as you are firmly directed to only use the 0300 number.

Make no mistake, the government will be on some percentage of the revenue these 0300 calls are raising.
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Dave
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Re: 2011 CENSUS - Exclusively 0300 020 1xxx number
Reply #2 - Mar 15th, 2011 at 1:46pm
 
RadioGaGa wrote on Mar 15th, 2011 at 1:38pm:
This 0300 Census contact number is not a freephone number but a number charged at local rate, so once again we get fleeced for ever more 'stealth tax' albeit not as painful as the national rate call, but irritating that there is no standard landline number equivalent to use.

Freephone numbers disadvantage callers from mobiles as they usually pay more than a 01/02/03 call.

Landline users who have inclusive packages do not gain any advantage from freephone numbers and do not gain any disadvantage with 03 numbers.

Uncensus the Census is only to apply landline users, then 03 numbers as the primary number type are the way to go.


RadioGaGa wrote on Mar 15th, 2011 at 1:38pm:
The Census contact land line number is 01329 444972, but there is no way you get 2011 Census info as you are firmly directed to only use the 0300 number.

Not sure what the point here is being made. The cost of calling 03 numbers is invariably the same as all 01/02 numbers as most providers charge (bill) all 01/02 numbers the same on any individual tariff.


RadioGaGa wrote on Mar 15th, 2011 at 1:38pm:
Make no mistake, the government will be on some percentage of the revenue these 0300 calls are raising.

Absolute rubbish! The 03 numbers are the neutral way forward and are the non-geographic equivant of geographic numbers.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: 2011 CENSUS - Exclusively 0300 020 1xxx number
Reply #3 - Mar 15th, 2011 at 3:19pm
 
RadioGaGa wrote on Mar 15th, 2011 at 1:38pm:
Heinz why would you appear pleased that "someone in government appears to have thought it through (at last)."

This 0300 Census contact number is not a freephone number but a number charged at local rate, so once again we get fleeced for ever more 'stealth tax' albeit not as painful as the national rate call, but irritating that there is no standard landline number equivalent to use.

The Census contact land line number is 01329 444972, but there is no way you get 2011 Census info as you are firmly directed to only use the 0300 number.

Make no mistake, the government will be on some percentage of the revenue these 0300 calls are raising.

To make the same points made by Dave a little more gently.

If we use the telephone we are in the hands of those who provide telephone services. (The only alternative is to re-nationalise.) Their charges are subject to VAT and their profits are taxed, although I believe that this is widely understood, rather than imposed by stealth.

Calls to 03 numbers cannot be by regulation (indeed are not, as we are not aware of any breaches) charged at any higher rate than the cost of a call to a geographic number. "Revenue sharing" on 03 calls is explicitly prohibited by regulation.

In the vast majority of cases, the charge for a "national rate" geographic call is the same as that for a "local rate" geographic call. Where there is a difference, it is the "national rate" that would apply in the case of the 03 regulations. Talk Talk recently introduced a distinction between local and national rates, but was persuaded to designate all 03 calls as local, at its own discretion, not by regulation. If anybody is aware of any other case, similar efforts at persuasion could be deployed. (N.B. What is known as "local NTS" and "national NTS" no longer has any connection whatsoever with local and national geographic calls.)

If there is any evidence (unmistakable or otherwise) of any breach of these regulations by telephone service providers, by HM government or by the ONS (an independent body) then it should be presented to Ofcom without delay. Those who contribute to this forum would be most interested in this also, as we do not wish to be mistaken in our assumptions.
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RadioGaGa
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Re: 2011 CENSUS - Exclusively 0300 020 1xxx number
Reply #4 - Mar 16th, 2011 at 1:20pm
 
Apologies for touching a nerve here.

My point of commenting was entirely due to the fact that I have a free landline service 24/7 for calls up to one hour. If I call 0845, 0870 etc etc I get charged what I call premium local or premium national rate. This is why I am sure many people use this website.

Quite correctly pointed out the 0800 freephone numbers are no benefit to mobile users and again I tend to use this website for the lad line equivalent.

Discovering the Census contact number is a 0300 and described as a local rate call I decided to attempt to find a regular landline number, to make my free call. Due mainly to not having any idea how long I might be waiting on the 0300 local call. When I eventually used the 0300 number I went through 4 sets of options/sample questions that I may wish to ask.

This is why I mentioned the land line number I did managed to find.

My comment about being fleeced on these array of 'local' and 'national' call rates is that it seems obvious to me that both BT and the subscriber to these calls receive revenue from them. I assumed the 0300 local call rate also carried some revenue for the subscriber.

I will assume from the emotive reply they don't, but I can't call it free via my service I have to pay local rates.

That was the point of my comment here.
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Dave
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Re: 2011 CENSUS - Exclusively 0300 020 1xxx number
Reply #5 - Mar 16th, 2011 at 1:43pm
 
RadioGaGa wrote on Mar 16th, 2011 at 1:20pm:
Discovering the Census contact number is a 0300 and described as a local rate call I decided to attempt to find a regular landline number, to make my free call. Due mainly to not having any idea how long I might be waiting on the 0300 local call. When I eventually used the 0300 number I went through 4 sets of options/sample questions that I may wish to ask.

Calls to 03 numbers are charged at no more than the price of a geographic call and come from inclusive minutes where they apply for geographic calls. These are rules set down by the regulator, Ofcom, and if your provider is breaking this then it should be reported so it can take action.

When these numbers were first introduced in 2007, there were instances of telephone companies charging 03 calls in excess of geographic ones. I have not heard of any breaches in the last two or three years; all telcos appear to be complying.


RadioGaGa wrote on Mar 16th, 2011 at 1:20pm:
My comment about being fleeced on these array of 'local' and 'national' call rates is that it seems obvious to me that both BT and the subscriber to these calls receive revenue from them. I assumed the 0300 local call rate also carried some revenue for the subscriber.

I will assume from the emotive reply they don't, but I can't call it free via my service I have to pay local rates.

The term "local rate" implies the cost of a geographic call to someone who is local to the caller. Any one individual's "local rate" is therefore the price they pay to call a local number as determined by the tariff they subscribe to. Similarly, one's "national rate" is the cost of a geographic call deemed as being a "national" call from the caller's location.

In the vast majority of cases, local and national calls cost the same. In which case any reference to "local rate" can be used interchangeably with that of "national rate" and "geographic rate" as they are the same.

Any suggestion that there can be two "local rates" on any one tariff is absurd and the sort of word-play that users of these numbers frequently enter into.


You said your package allows you free "landline" calls. If this is all UK landlines, then it should also include all non-geographic numbers that start with the digits 03.
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« Last Edit: Mar 16th, 2011 at 1:48pm by Dave »  
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bazzerfewi
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Re: 2011 CENSUS - Exclusively 0300 020 1xxx number
Reply #6 - Mar 16th, 2011 at 4:59pm
 
Why would a company use the 03 range rather that the 0800 range when both the 03 and 0800 number range are both charged at 1p per minute to the company when the recipient receives the call

I do appreciate that at present mobile users are charged a fortune when contacting an 0800 supposedly FREE phone number but Ofcom have proposed to make all 0800 numbers free to both mobiles just as they are with landlines. (not before time)

Is it the case that Ofcom have only done half a job again

Why didn't they just allocate both the 0800 numbers and the 03 numbers simultaneously?

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RadioGaGa
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Re: 2011 CENSUS - Exclusively 0300 020 1xxx number
Reply #7 - Mar 16th, 2011 at 5:43pm
 
I do not appear to be communicating the reason for commenting here so back to basics for a moment.

Saynoto0870.com surely only exists to enable callers to find a regular land line number for people who wish to only pay the rate that their chosen service provider charges. i.e. no special deal package with BT and you will pay a premium price to BT if you happen to blindly dial 0870, 0845 etc etc.

Additionally the caller may have an all-in package with their chosen service provider and get unlimited free calls to all landlines 24/7 national or local land line.

In recent years there is massive confusion to the ordinary man in the street as to exactly what one pays for calls, this is the very reason saynoto0870 website is such a useful tool and has been mentioned many times in the media.

Personally I have a service called Talk More with Eclipse my chosen broadband ISP. I have now called them and asked what I pay for calls to 0300 numbers and the operator didn't know. It's not anywhere obvious on their website either, but the operator was keen to find and answer and came back confirming calls to 01, 02 & 03 numbers are part of the free calls Talk more package, so there is the answer I needed.

I am sorry I am not a telephone industry charges structure guru and therefore should have known better, but when you have been caught hundreds of times getting charged more for calls because of some number prefix that you didn't recognise as expensive, you get very very wary.

I also find it hard to trust government agencies are not on some gravy train when they are suggesting a local charge rate applies. Which is why I went to the saynoto0870 this morning and couldn't find the 0300 number listed, so I posted on this forum and inadvertently stirred a hornets nest.....

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Re: 2011 CENSUS - Exclusively 0300 020 1xxx number
Reply #8 - Mar 16th, 2011 at 6:02pm
 
RadioGaGa wrote on Mar 16th, 2011 at 5:43pm:
with BT and you will pay a premium price to BT if you happen to blindly dial 0870, 0845 etc etc.





0870 & 0845 numbers are inclusive with BT calling plans
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RadioGaGa
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Re: 2011 CENSUS - Exclusively 0300 020 1xxx number
Reply #9 - Mar 16th, 2011 at 6:09pm
 
sherbert wrote on Mar 16th, 2011 at 6:02pm:
RadioGaGa wrote on Mar 16th, 2011 at 5:43pm:
with BT and you will pay a premium price to BT if you happen to blindly dial 0870, 0845 etc etc.





0870 & 0845 numbers are inclusive with BT calling plans


Is that with no BT call plan in place?

I was referring to no special calls plans. I have a free BT line service in another property and there we regularly get caught with 0842, etc etc it is only 0870 and 0845 that gets included.

Like I said you get caught and it is confusing.
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Re: 2011 CENSUS - Exclusively 0300 020 1xxx number
Reply #10 - Mar 16th, 2011 at 6:50pm
 
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: 2011 CENSUS - Exclusively 0300 020 1xxx number
Reply #11 - Mar 16th, 2011 at 6:56pm
 
RadioGaGa wrote on Mar 16th, 2011 at 5:43pm:
... I am sorry I am not a telephone industry charges structure guru and therefore should have known better, but when you have been caught hundreds of times getting charged more for calls because of some number prefix that you didn't recognise as expensive, you get very very wary.
...

Your doubts and suspicions about 0300 numbers are not unjustified and they are very common. Please forgive us "gurus" in pressing you to recognise that there is nothing to worry about with 03.

"For once", Ofcom did a good thing in introducing the 03 ranges and securing total compliance with the requirement for them to be charged exactly as for 01/02 calls. Where Ofcom has failed is in ensuring that the understanding of 03 is sufficiently well communicated. It acknowledges this failing in its current consultation and promises to do better in future. It also proposes the term "Geographic Rate" to cover the charge for local geographic, national geographic and 03 calls. 084 and 087, which are sometimes wrongly described as local and national rate, will be known as "Business Rate".

Further features of Ofcom proposals are the abolition of the 0870 range and changes to the regulations which presently enable BT to include 0845 calls in normal packages.
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Re: 2011 CENSUS - Exclusively 0300 020 1xxx number
Reply #12 - Mar 16th, 2011 at 8:27pm
 
Thanks for confirming the confusion and suspicions over 0300 SilentCallsVictim.

It's encouraging to see Ofcom at least making some moves to ratify the whole business of call charges. I am sure it will never be perfect, but when one considers the utterly outrageous cons that can happen and get charged through a BT bill or, as I have personal experience of, via my Orange mobile phone account. I seems some operators collect the money for these scams, clearly take something for collecting the money then claim they have no control. It's paramount to receiving stolen goods. But that's another topic and not in keeping with the thread here.

Thanks sherbert for posting the BT rates.

So conclusion to all this is 0300 is our friend, the whole thing just needs communicating more fully.
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Heinz
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Re: 2011 CENSUS - Exclusively 0300 020 1xxx number
Reply #13 - Mar 16th, 2011 at 9:49pm
 
RadioGaGa wrote on Mar 16th, 2011 at 8:27pm:
Thanks for confirming the confusion and suspicions over 0300 SilentCallsVictim.

So conclusion to all this is 0300 is our friend, the whole thing just needs communicating more fully.

03 is our friend might be more accurate (IIRC, 0300, 0302, 0303, 0306, 0330, 0333, 0343*, 0344*, 0345*, 0370*, 0371*, 0372* and 0373* numbers all exist).

* To allow migration from the equivalent 08xx number.
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« Last Edit: Mar 16th, 2011 at 9:56pm by Heinz »  

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Dave
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Re: 2011 CENSUS - Exclusively 0300 020 1xxx number
Reply #14 - Mar 17th, 2011 at 10:07am
 
RadioGaGa wrote on Mar 16th, 2011 at 8:27pm:
So conclusion to all this is 0300 is our friend, the whole thing just needs communicating more fully.

Indeed, all 03 numbers are.

It seems to me that prior to its introduction, the need for a geographically charged non-geographic number range was only recognised by this campaign. Users of such numbers wished to keep their noses in the trough and didn't sound off about the fact that if they didn't want a geographic number, they had to charge customers a premium to call.
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