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GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire) (Read 890,128 times)
catj
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #150 - Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:44pm
 
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We believe that decisions about local services are best taken locally, where the local situation and local priorities are best understood.

Err, whatever happened to the National Health Service?
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Heinz
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #151 - Feb 24th, 2012 at 8:27pm
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:26pm:
Apologies at coming late to this most recent discussion - I am no longer receiving email notifications of postings - it seems to switch on and off at a whim, without me doing anything.

I issued a media release on the Further Guidance earlier today having issued a briefing to all relevant NHS Chief Executives early this morning.

There are a number of typos and ill drafted phrases in the Guidance draft, some of which I have drawn to the attention of the authors. I have addressed the point about the odd reference to the Ofcom regulated BT cost - however this is not as significant as some may fear, as the main point is made many times over.

What this may do is provide PCTs with the opportunity to revise their policy against that advocated and advised by the BMA.


As a PS to the above.

The BMA has already starting kicking up - see this piece (and the comment I have added).

Nice comment David.
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« Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2012 at 8:29pm by Heinz »  

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015
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bazzerfewi
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #152 - Feb 24th, 2012 at 9:49pm
 
DISCUSTING!!!!!!!!!! Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry

What can be done other than what has been done already

I await suggestions from the more experienced members
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speedy
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #153 - Feb 27th, 2012 at 1:20am
 
At long last something that appears to have a new set of choppers from DoH - perhaps this latest will get these Fat Cats at the Head of NHS Bodies off their Collective Fat Axxxs and get their Job done - They are paid more than enough Now Earn It  Angry - I queried of SCV why no Deadline Date and was told that the Terms are for Immediate Action.

This has obviously been worded - albeit with a couple of errors - by people that have a reasonably good knowledge of the internal workings of the problem for which we must be very gratefull - It will be very interesting to see how the NHS Fat Cats try and wriggle out of this one.  Cool
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Dave
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #154 - Mar 1st, 2012 at 8:28pm
 
Source: East Grinstead Courier and Observer

Patients hit by soaring bills when calling GPs

Thursday, March 01, 2012

PATIENTS in the East Grinstead area claim they are paying a fortune to dial "premium-rate telephone numbers" to reach their GPs.

Two surgeries – Judges Close and Lingfield – have 0844 numbers, which patients have to use to talk to their doctor or make an appointment.


[…]

A spokesman for Judges Close Surgery said it had been assured calls would cost no more than the BT standard rate from a landline.

[…]

A spokesman for NHS Sussex told the Courier & Observer the 0844 numbers should not be costing patients any more.

She said: "All of our GP practices in Sussex have met their obligations under both the terms of the Government's guidance and the relevant legislation relating to their contact telephone number.

"While some of our practices use non-geographical telephone numbers – often beginning 0844 – patients are charged a maximum of the local/geographical rate.

"Patients' own telephone contracts may allow them cheaper, or even free, calls to geographical numbers. Our practices are aware of this and many have stated that they will take it into consideration when reviewing their telephone contracts.

"Some practices choose to use non-geographical numbers because of the additional functionality they provide. They can eliminate the engaged tone and provide other call-switching functions, helping them to handle the large number of calls they receive."



One surgery says that it had been "assured calls would cost no more than the BT standard rate from a landline". "Standard" BT rates have not existed since 2004. It chose to move breach its contract last April when it introduced its 0844 387 "g11" number. The DH has clearly said that the regulations apply to calls from all landlines, mobiles and payphones and not just one particular tariff from one provider.

The PCT is happily allowing surgeries to flout the ban as it admits that some "may" pay less whilst claiming that they comply!
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« Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2012 at 8:56pm by Dave »  
 
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bazzerfewi
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #155 - Mar 2nd, 2012 at 5:39am
 
How can surgeries keep stating facts that are not true, I have also contacted Dan Jaris MP again and he has chosen to ignore my message
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devon jack
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #156 - Mar 2nd, 2012 at 7:50pm
 
devon jack wrote on Dec 15th, 2011 at 10:19pm:
devon jack wrote on Dec 13th, 2011 at 6:43pm:
Our Health Centre has just (5 Dec 2011) introduced an 0844 number (see http://www.wallingbrook.co.uk/) and this is the only way to contact the surgery or dispensary. They don't even display any email addresses on their website.
I've complained to NHS Devon and they are looking into it. Any suggestions how to get it changed back to a geographic number? As I have a BT all inclusive calls contract then it will cost me to phone them rather than being part of my BT free calls.
I also gather that if they call you back then there is also a charge to the patient, but not proved that yet.

Well done for complaining, I look forward to the response. I find it absolutely staggering that practices are even now introducing 0844 numbers, long after this was effectively banned, and compounding it by including nonsense like "Calls will be charged at LOCAL RATE. Calls from mobiles may be higher or lower depending on the network provider" alongside the new number. What planet are they on?
The PCT is investigating our health centre and have told them to produce definitive proof after one month that the claim that patients pay no more than calling a geographic number is true. They will now also include references to "inclusive calls" deals where calls are effectively prepaid for 01/02/03.
I got an info sheet today which states (literally, including the obvious grammatical errors provided by NEG)
"Patients calling surgery line from a BT landline pay no more than the cost of calling an equivalent geographic number, other providers may charge differently. Calls from mobile may vary please contact your mobile operator for more detail"
I think that is an admission that if not using a BT landline then the calls are more expensive!!
Another aspect I read today is that when using "Surgery Line" from NEG, the patient doesn't get an engaged tone - ie is charged for hanging on when nobody can take the call, instead of just hanging up at no charge and calling again later.

SUCCESS
We now have a new number 01769 580295
Here is an extract from the surgery newsletter
Quote:
..we acknowledge that we have been ill advised by the Telephone Company regarding the call charges. In order to address this issue we now have an additional number, 01769 580295, which runs alongside the 0844 number. This will drop into the menu system in the same way, the only difference being when all the lines are busy you will not be held in a queue but will get the engaged tone. Patients will need to seek advice from their call provider as to which number will be the cheapest for them to use.



~ Edited by Dave: Link added to quote box and link to surgery newsletter added
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« Last Edit: Mar 2nd, 2012 at 9:03pm by Dave »  
 
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #157 - Mar 8th, 2012 at 9:47pm
 
An interesting development can be reported, although with some reservation.

The 111 service is currently being piloted in Luton, County Durham and Darlington, Lincolnshire, Nottingham City, the Isle of Wight, parts of Derbyshire and parts of Lancashire.

I have heard today of someone, in one of these areas being advised by a NHS official to avoid paying a premium to call his GP on a 0844 number by calling 111 and asking to be put through to his GP. Apparently this worked without any question. This was during normal surgery hours and there was nothing special about the nature of the enquiry.


This is not how the 111 service (which is free to call for all) is supposed to work. It is however having its scope grossly extended in a way that, although obviously welcome for those who benefit, is probably not in the best interests of the NHS, and therefore ultimately patients in general.

Although I have my reservations, I would not be so churlish as to withhold this information insofar as I know that this has worked for one caller on two separate occasions.


Outside surgery hours, 111 will make a connection with the appropriate "out of hours" service, but the advised procedure is that calls which can be handled by a GP surgery should be made directly and not through 111, which is intended only for urgent needs.

I would be interested to hear of any other experiences from those in the pilot areas. As further pilots will be commencing shortly, even though the proposed roll out will now be held back pending analysis of the experiences of the pilots, this could be a very interesting way of getting the issue of GPs with expensive numbers exposed.


Of course, if 111 is to allow non-urgent access to a GP surgery, then anyone who pays for a call to their GP, whatever number they are using, would be advised to go via 111 if it is available.

Once again, this is not a policy that I would advocate or approve of, however I feel that I must report what I know, as it may enable some to avoid the improper treatment they suffer as a result of GPs being allowed to continue using 084 numbers.
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sherbert
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #158 - Mar 12th, 2012 at 1:14pm
 
Patients assured over 0844 numbers


Published on Monday 12 March 2012 11:18

PATIENTS across the district have been reassured this week that calls to their doctors’ surgeries do not cost more

than a local rate number.

A Horsham patient contacted this paper with concerns about his surgery breaking Government guidelines by requesting patients to call an 0844 number to make appointments or other enquiries.

NHS Sussex has made clear that the way these numbers are set up means they should not cost people more than a call to a normal landline.

A spokesman said: “All of our GP practices in Sussex have met their obligations under both the terms of the Government’s guidance and the relevant legislation relating to their contact telephone number.

“While some of our practices use non-geographical telephone numbers - often beginning 0844 - patients are charged a maximum of the local or geographical rate.

“Patients’ own telephone contracts may allow them cheaper, or even free, calls to geographical numbers.

“Our practices are aware of this and many have stated that they will take it into consideration when reviewing their telephone contracts.”


They added that surgeries often use the 0844 numbers because they carry other benefits for patients.

“Some practices choose to use telephone systems with non-geographical numbers because of the additional functionality they provide.

“They can eliminate the engaged tone and provide other call switching functions, helping them to handle the large number of calls they receive.”


http://www.wscountytimes.co.uk/news/local/patients-assured-over-0844-numbers-1-3...
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« Last Edit: Mar 12th, 2012 at 4:06pm by sherbert »  
 
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kasg
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #159 - Mar 12th, 2012 at 8:03pm
 
sherbert wrote on Mar 12th, 2012 at 1:14pm:
While some of our practices use non-geographical telephone numbers - often beginning 0844 - patients are charged a maximum of the local or geographical rate.

A straightforward lie, no messing about  Angry
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #160 - Mar 13th, 2012 at 11:18am
 
kasg wrote on Mar 12th, 2012 at 8:03pm:
sherbert wrote on Mar 12th, 2012 at 1:14pm:
While some of our practices use non-geographical telephone numbers - often beginning 0844 - patients are charged a maximum of the local or geographical rate.

A straightforward lie, no messing about  Angry

Sadly, there is lots of messing about. The quoted statement is clearly referring to some charge that does actually affect what callers pay. The truth follows in the next quoted paragraph from the article:

Quote:
Patients’ own telephone contracts may allow them cheaper, or even free, calls to geographical numbers.

The above is the statement that matters. It makes the following statement untrue:

Quote:
All of our GP practices in Sussex have met their obligations under both the terms of the Government’s guidance and the relevant legislation relating to their contact telephone number.


It may sound stupid, but PCTs such as those which comprise NHS Sussex have failed to recognise that it is what callers actually pay which has to be considered.

Many PCTs have been misled into believing that there is such a thing as a standard "local or geographic" rate and a standard rate for calling a particular 0844 number, which can be set by the GP in conjunction with their telephone service provider, and that these can be used as the basis for determining compliance.

This type of mistaken thinking is what lies behind bizarre statements such as:

Quote:
NHS Sussex has made clear that the way these numbers are set up means they should not cost people more than a call to a normal landline.

This suggests that there is something "set up" about the cost of telephone calls. What is set up for 0844 numbers is the extreme likelihood that they will cost people more than a call to a normal landline, because of the "revenue share", which is an additional cost to the call originator. This is exactly what is seen in practice, apart from exceptional cases where calls to geographic numbers are subject to a "out of plan" penalty charge.


The word "should" can imply a duty under regulation, whereas in this case it refers only to the views of some people about regulations that they would wish to see imposed. We can all say what we think other people "should" do.

NHS Sussex may think that BT should not offer call inclusive packages and that those who choose 0844 numbers should be provided with a subsidy at the expense of all telephone users, rather than those who call them. What it cannot do is assume that its wishes have been fulfilled when they have not.

I would question why a PCT is forming views about issues of telecommunications regulation and voicing them only in response to a challenge about its failure to perform its proper duties. Furthermore, as the views expressed are somewhat extreme and most unlikely ever to get adopted as policy by Ofcom and implemented in practice, I would also question whether it adequately understands the issues.
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Dave
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #161 - Mar 13th, 2012 at 11:41am
 
Source: Spalding Guardian and Lincolnshire Free Press

Outrage at surgery’s use of premium lines

Monday 12 March 2012 18:00

Adrian Audis, senior contracts manager for NHS Lincolnshire said: “Following the publication The NHS (Primary Medical Services) (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2010, NHS Lincolnshire received written confirmation from all GP surgeries in Lincolnshire using 0844, confirming that patients are not being charged any more than the geographical rate.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #162 - Mar 13th, 2012 at 11:30pm
 
Dave wrote on Mar 13th, 2012 at 11:41am:
Source: Spalding Guardian and Lincolnshire Free Press

Outrage at surgery’s use of premium lines

Monday 12 March 2012 18:00

Adrian Audis, senior contracts manager for NHS Lincolnshire said: “Following the publication The NHS (Primary Medical Services) (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2010, NHS Lincolnshire received written confirmation from all GP surgeries in Lincolnshire using 0844, confirming that patients are not being charged any more than the geographical rate.

As with the other example, quoted above where a similar statement is made, this written confirmation is of no value. It is neither provided by those who levy the charges on the patients and other callers, nor from anyone who can demonstrate any competent awareness of what they pay.

I would happily provide anyone with written confirmation that I do not charge callers to GP surgeries any more for calls to international destinations or the highest rated "Premium Rate Service" calls than I do for geographic calls - because I do not provide telephone service to them. I am confident in asserting that the author of the "written confirmation" referred to is in exactly the same position as me.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #163 - Mar 14th, 2012 at 7:50am
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Mar 13th, 2012 at 11:18am:
kasg wrote on Mar 12th, 2012 at 8:03pm:
sherbert wrote on Mar 12th, 2012 at 1:14pm:
While some of our practices use non-geographical telephone numbers - often beginning 0844 - patients are charged a maximum of the local or geographical rate.

A straightforward lie, no messing about  Angry

Sadly, there is lots of messing about. …

Following the extensive analysis of the reported views of NHS Sussex given in my quoted comments, I have followed up on the truth of the situation with NHS Sussex.

This has led me to add the following comment to the County Times article.

Quote:
This article reflects a seriously confused and mistaken position being adopted by NHS Sussex. I understand that recently issued "Further Guidance" from the Department of Health is now being consulted and its position is being re-assessed. I hope that the County Times will shortly be able to report a more accurate and proper position being taken by those who are charged with managing the provision of NHS primary care services in the County. The "reassurance" referred to is quite simply false and mistaken.
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Dave
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #164 - Mar 21st, 2012 at 7:38pm
 
Members may be interested to see this list of 56 surgeries that moved to 0844 numbers since the ban came into effect on 1st April 2010. There are still plenty of GPs who are jumping on the bandwagon.
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