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Migration Snags Moving from 0870 to 0370 NGN contd (Read 8,415 times)
03700000000
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Migration Snags Moving from 0870 to 0370 NGN contd
Sep 13th, 2011 at 9:31pm
 
This is for business users of NGN wanting to migrate to 0345/0370/034x/037x numbers from existing a 0845/0870/084x/087x NGN. There's little actual information on how to move from 0845/0870/084x/087x numbers and with telcos often poorly-briefed, spreading mis-information, or plain obstructive on what is possible, there needs to be info on this. Telcos staffers often don't know, or won't tell you.

This doc here is essential to understand and make teh more intractable or plain clueless telcos deal with NGN portings. And forget asking ofcom, 5-6 calls and we never did get to bootom of waht we can or can't do, and the searches around the various telco sites lead you up blind alleys, most trying to sell you anotehr product.

I have mentioned it in another thread, but it's a bit buried there. So here it is again.

Had we known about it, we'd have ported away from 087x long since. It took us forever to find.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBsQFjAA&url=http%3A...

But the link is not from ofcom. So suggest, Dear Moderator personage, your Majesty, your Erminess. it needs to be uploaded to here before it goes. 

OK then....


SFX: (Drum Roll) Ladeeeeeezzzz and Genterrrrmen! I bring you....

Non-Geographic Number Portability
End-to-End Process Manual
Version 13  ofcom doc: NGNPE2E


Whoopeeedoo. You want page 26. Don't eat it all at once.

===================================
Note: requesting an 0345/0370/034x/037x NGN prefix will have the port request declined by the rangeholder, if your CP does not send it as a tied request. ie tied to the 084x/087x  number you now possess. Telco porting staffers rarely seem to know this, when they shoud, so bang on about it. Ofcom has allocated these ranges, 037x & 034x only for prior users of the resepctive 084x and 087x numbers. This snippet alone, had we known it - even our CP didn't, would have saved us two months hassle.


It took us months to find this and get clarity.

Then,

All parties concerned, no matter how many hops you are away from your rangeholder, can only give one of two objections to a successful port.
These are:

1. The end-user does not have the existing 087x equivalent in port. (We assume you do)
2. The rangeholder does not have the 084x/037x number as part of their number-block allocation. (they have not applied to ofcom for it yet) - unlikely.

This is becaue, the arrangemnt, however it is met, that gives you the 08 prefix number, will give you the 03, and your existing 08 is proof of it. Don't let anyone tell you any other reason. Anything else aside from no prting agreement between resective telcos 'tis 'kin Telco HOGWASH. Having got that, then you can claim your 037x/034x migration.
Got that?, Now... look what you coulda won, next contestant please.
===============
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« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2011 at 7:27pm by 03700000000 »  
 
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Re: Migration Snags Moving from 0870 to 0370 NGN contd
Reply #1 - Sep 15th, 2011 at 9:38am
 
One point I may not have made clear. If you have an existing 0845/0870/084x/087x NGN youalso have its 03 twin. The numbers are paired, a telco that has your 0345/0370/034x/037x NGN can do nothing else with it. It is yours. No other user can take it, not as ofcom rules stand anyway, but before they move the goal posts, and they do, get it now.

You can run them concurrently too. Thus, if liek us, you have shed loads of legacy traffic on your 08, or legacy printed matter, signed vans, etc, you can wind it down, and you'll  advertise the 03. Port them into the same IVR, or whatever you do with it now. You're not gettign revenue on most of this stuff anymore, so you may as well swap. All you're doing is feeding a telco with your custoemrs money, so you may as well take it to feed the IVR and transit costs. But not quite, note, your transit costs may go up, becuase the higher call cost to 08 is being pocketed by the telcos, which lets them carry your transit. You'll stick the cost on the back-end instead, which as far as we can see is the disadvantage of 03 prefix, you look pricier, when you're not, but yes, you'll look it. Or select to take the hit, but few businesses that can do that, so how you select for the custoemr to pay the call cost instead is a tough call (see what I did there?). Of course that depends on your call duration patterns, and your market and margins for your service or products. 08 prefix takes care of that issue. 03 doesn't.

As you port don't assume you CP will add your DIU (Directory Enquires/Phone book entry) so chase tehm.

It's best to have an account with your rangehodler direct, ratehr that an reseller, but in our experience, that is almost impossible to do. You need to be doing minutes in the millions. Unless you're an empolyee in some  massive corporate yourself, as big or bigger than the corporate that is your rangeholder,   they won't want to know you. If not, it's the added complication of a reseller for you. You can get kicked about. It can be like trying to put a tent up through a letterbox.

At the moment, we can see our  'tent'  blowing around in a gale, we can't tie it down, because we can't get to it, we can only watch.

Getting to know what is required took forever. At every stage, without it exactly in the form wanted, you go back to the start. Even with all your docs, validation, etc etc in place, you'll get tripped or straight blocked somewhere. In our experince, the structure conspires to let you drive into a brickwall, several times. We been told 'this' form is the right form five times. We've seen numerous port request forms, worst, often the telcos actually don't know. We've  managed to work out that two were wrong. That is why we're only on our fourth submission.

So a word to the wise, before we whine anymore, should you leave it on 08 ? Well, we're tempted! Unlike Ofcom etc etc, we don't get paid for these  dictates, they do. Best we end here.

Life goes on...
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« Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2011 at 1:23pm by 03700000000 »  
 
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Re: Migration Snags Moving from 0870 to 0370 NGN contd
Reply #2 - Sep 15th, 2011 at 2:20pm
 
Sorry to disappoint, but I see nothing in the latest posting with which to disagree.

Given that there are plenty of 03 xx ranges available, I cannot see why Ofcom would ever need to change the use of the 84 and 87 blocks - although some cynics would suggest that this provides the best possible reason for it doing so.


Ofcom has provided 03 and set the regulations, including the position for migration, as well as one could hope. There have however been two significant failures.

Firstly, there was a disaster in its relationship with the Cabinet Office, in arranging the mass migration of all public sector numbers from 084/087 to 03. From my understanding, the fault lay largely with the Cabinet Office. If this had gone ahead, then the second issue would not have been so significant.


The second failure was a decision not to engage in the extensive publicity that was required to make 03 work. As a regulator and facilitator, Ofcom is not good at promotion. It will draw attention to its successes and bold interventions, however it leaves it to others to apply and promote the facilities that it enables.

The problem with 03 is that there is little in it for the providers and their agents, as it is they who would be seen as having the responsibility of promoting facilities in the market. 084 and 087 numbers are cheaper for their customers, so there is little reason for them to put great effort into promoting 03 as an alternative as it yields no greater revenue for them.

The pressure to adopt 03 has to come from callers, most of whom are unaware of the benefits that it offers them. Major organised and formal groups representing the consumer interest have done nothing with this. Many are still calling for a switch to geographic numbers, or their publication as alternatives, when this is not the answer. Some see the only problem with 084/087 numbers as being the high access charges levied by mobile providers.

I cannot claim great success for my own efforts to promote the direct migration from 084 to 034 equivalents (with indefinite parallel operation), as an interim measure for public bodies who are reluctant to incur the cost of extensive individual number changes. I am deeply disappointed that this idea has not been picked up by those with a louder voice than mine.

If service providers were under greater pressure to use 03 numbers then this would generate a demand which competing providers would aim to satisfy. There is however no competition possible with direct migrations, so this would only be promoted as a way of retaining customers who were being pressed to adopt 03 numbers from other providers. Whilst retention is important, there is generally far more to be made from new customers, so the whole industry would tend to play down the direct migration option.


Whilst there are limits to what Ofcom can and should do, there is no question that it should have done far more to develop awareness of 03, including the issues around migration to equivalent numbers for 084/087 users. Ofcom should recognise the detriment that is caused by ignorance and see that it alone has a responsibility to correct this failing.

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Re: Migration Snags Moving from 0870 to 0370 NGN contd
Reply #3 - Sep 15th, 2011 at 3:44pm
 
I'd like to write a longer reply, maybe later.

One thing I will say, migration to 0345/0370/034x/037x numbers from existing 0845/0870/084x/087x NGNs  is soemthing hardly mentioned, in the telco world, few even know of it. Which concurs with 'Silent's' point.

But why would, and why should they? Without being forced to, with no self-interest element to it, they never will. Frankly, I can't say I blame them. This is almost in whole, the reason for our migration woes, what we ask for is not standard procedure, and as it stands, won't  be.

And on the wider point, the public wants cheap, or free calls to business. Sorry, but somewhere, somehow, calling a business will never be cheap, or free.

What we'd like is a level playing field for all. So either no premium/business rate when calling business, ever,  or a blanket business rate. The latter works  because, it would soon be understood by all,  under whatever circumstances , when calling  a business, you are prepared to pay for it, and if you're not, simple, don't call. Equally misuse of this by business, leaving someone on hold forever, instead of a call back, for example, would be met with fines or withdrawal of revenue by a  regulator. That regulator paid for by revenue. What we have now is a hotch-potch, suited only to the few and the telcos.

The no premium calls idea works well, simple, like the old days, and it worked then. Oh dear me, no... that would never do. And business rates for all, also sensible if you're rational, but pay business? That'll never be a vote winner. The electorate is rarely rational, so not on you Nellie,  it'll  never 'appen luv'.  The hotchpotch will remain.
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« Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2011 at 4:56pm by 03700000000 »  
 
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Re: Migration Snags Moving from 0870 to 0370 NGN contd
Reply #4 - Sep 16th, 2011 at 1:05am
 
The "Business Rate", with a declared "Service Charge" of up to (probably) 10p per minute, is exactly what Ofcom is currently proposing.

The level of the Service Charge would be the same regardless of how the call was made - each telco would levy a fixed and declared "Access Charge" on its customers in addition to the Service Charge.


As for regulation of standards in call handling, this would have to be paid for. A levy would have to be imposed on those being regulated, who would have to pass this on in the level of charge. I personally have severe doubts about how this could be made to work effectively. The experiment with PhonePay Plus and 0871/2/3 offers some evidence of this. A proportionate levy does not permit sufficient regulation for it to be worthwhile - there is just not enough money in the pot.

(I personally believe that if one is paying a service charge one has the right to expect the call to be answered promptly, BUT ALSO by an agent with the appropriate communication skills and competence in the matters that they are required to address. Regulation of the latter would not be easy, however a meaningless response or one that requires endless consultation with colleagues is no better than being kept on hold.)


Ofcom currently accepts the market's desire for flexibility in setting the level of charge, up to the 10p per minute maximum for "Business Rate". I personally believe that the number of individual price points will have to be reduced from the present situation to make it workable, despite the disruption that this will cause to existing arrangements. The idea of going much further by reducing this to a single point is appealing, although some would say that this would be heavy handed by the regulator and an unwarranted intervention in the market.


For myself, I would be ready to support a proposal for a single Business Rate Service Charge of 10p per minute (including VAT). The present numbering and regulatory structure (084 and 087) would better support there being two rates - 5p for 084 and 10p for 087. (0870 is outside this structure at present - it is an anomaly which Ofcom proposes to deal with by its "abolition" in its present form.)


Contrary to the position of those who want an overall maximum call charge, I would argue for telcos to retain the right to set their Access Charge at whatever level they wish.

Let us say that in the negotiations of the level of the "maximum", one telco secures the right to levy a call connection fee of 15p plus an Access Charge of 7.5p per minute for daytime calls from some of its customers. If this were permitted as the maximum, I would not want users of Business Rate numbers to have to declare the call cost as being "up to 17.5p per minute, plus a connection fee of up to 15p" when some providers are prepared to include the Access Charge in their Calling Plan (i.e. at no marginal cost other than the 10p per minute Service Charge for calls made when the terms of the selected Plan are in effect).

I would argue strongly that "Service Providers" should only be required to declare the charge which they levy. Telcos must deal with their Access Charges as a separate issue.


If, as is argued and accepted by Ofcom, there is a demand for use of this micro-payment mechanism at such low levels then it must be made to work properly.
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Re: Migration Snags Moving from 0870 to 0370 NGN contd
Reply #5 - Sep 16th, 2011 at 10:10am
 
I couldn't agree more. That is a viable route. Not as I had it. It has a dose of reality,  I fear,  the public will not support.

If it promoted all to go on the same paltform, we'd have a largely uniform business rate, and a level playing field, where the customer pays a price to talk to business, and clearly knows the score.

It would be open to abuse from companies answering with ill-trained staff etc etc. I see no real issue with that, it can't be stopped and happens now in business. It's called people. Take the time and trouble to travel to a shop or business and you'll get clueless stafff there too. It costs you to be met with such staffers. But that is a problem with that  business, not the act of shopping. The same applies to making a phone call. You walk away or in the case of a phone call, hang up. If it's a complaint, then the same shop analogy applies, it is the cost of doing business.

In that 'compaint' situation, until a "Business rate"  call is charged in the region of £1.00+ a minute, it will still be costing the business a whole lot more than it costs you. So the customer still wins, the loss is only in perception. If you doubt this, sit on the end of a phone, yakking away with only the revenue at the old 0870 rates. (or up to 17p!!) The telco takes most of the call cost, you won't get 17p. You'll be earning less than the statutory minimum wage. Go on I dare you.

Rip off?? Oh, if only... many, me included, would be quite comfortable.

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« Last Edit: Sep 16th, 2011 at 11:00am by 03700000000 »  
 
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Re: Migration Snags Moving from 0870 to 0370 NGN contd
Reply #6 - Oct 21st, 2011 at 10:52am
 
Just to finalise this post, we now , at last have our 0370 number. It has taken almost a year to the day to acheve this.

Mis-information, deliberate obstruction,  corporate structures and prodedures, all these things, conspired to impede progress. And worst, plain simple lack of knowledge on the part of the telcos involved.

Had we known it would involve this much time and hassle, frankly, we wouldn't have bothered. The reality is, we have to work in a commercial environment, and the time and effort involved was not warranted.  0870 serves us well.

Would we do it again? Simply put... no. 0870 is good. Which we appreciate, is not what this site is about. But that is the reality.

Whilst we see it from the users standpoint, if only our gripe was £3-4.00 for a 10 minute phone call, life would be grand.

I can see the stack of rotten eggs being hurled our way now.

Our thanks to Xon, all credit to them, for sorting it out. http://www.x-on.co.uk/ Without their help, it would still be in the air now, we recommend them.
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« Last Edit: Oct 21st, 2011 at 11:02am by 03700000000 »  
 
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Re: Migration Snags Moving from 0870 to 0370 NGN contd
Reply #7 - Oct 22nd, 2011 at 1:50am
 
Thanks 0370000000 for your efforts and glad of your success

Silent is it possible to sort a Recipe of steps to acquire the migration 03 twin of a GP's 0844 - if the activity of getting them to migrate the first thing to be asked is How To Do ? If Ofcom is not the first approch then who is it?

My PCT Contact was very interested when I told her when I found the Xon site for when Tele Hardware Contracts end if they want to move because their existing Hardware System is now too expensive to maintain and would be looking for alternative System Providers.

It would be of great help it something on the lines of 03 Migration Menu could be available just to give the Boat another Shove in the right direction. This would stop PCTs putting out recent Rubbish Misinformation Ref: Jul 2011 Investigation Silent knows about - same old almost word for word  Angry

I know we would be doing the PCTs jobs for them but having shown the wide spread ineptitude of most of them it would remove the excuse - Cant be Done

I'm just trying to shoot down the excuses before they can take flight that I know will come if the 03 migration really gets moving.
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Re: Migration Snags Moving from 0870 to 0370 NGN contd
Reply #8 - Oct 22nd, 2011 at 4:02am
 
03700000000 wrote on Sep 15th, 2011 at 3:44pm:
[...] And on the wider point, the public wants cheap, or free calls to business. Sorry, but somewhere, somehow, calling a business will never be cheap, or free. [...]
I would argue that the public simply wants to be charged for the conveyance of the call (as in t'old days), not for the conveyance of the call plus an additional premium that ends up in the grubby hands of one or more other parties. Why should it be necessary for the recipient to add on an additional fee just to receive a call? It makes no sense. If one writes a letter to, say, British Airways, then one pays only for the transit of the item, say 50p (I do not know the current cost of first-class mail). One does not pay 50p plus an additional subsidy to help BA with its costs of providing someone to read and respond to the correspondence.

On my side of the ocean, where capitalism rules and corporate profits generally come before anything else, calls to businesses are indeed very often free of charge, either through being local calls, or the provision of toll-free service. Using numbers similar to those in the UK would be, quite simply, unacceptable to the public here.

As what should be the situation in the UK, businesses and other bodies over here factor telecom costs into general overhead expenses, such as heating, lighting, air conditioning and other fixed and variable costs.

I would have no issue with NGNs if they were being used to offer a genuine value added service. Unfortunately, aided by the feckless regulator, the numbers are now in use by just about any small or large organization for general purpose contact, often for complaints.

Whenever I see an organization using 0844 or similar, my onlu conclusion is that the person responsible for the telecom policy is an idiot.


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Re: Migration Snags Moving from 0870 to 0370 NGN contd
Reply #9 - Oct 22nd, 2011 at 10:51am
 
03700000000 wrote on Oct 21st, 2011 at 10:52am:
Just to finalise this post, we now , at last have our 0370 number. It has taken almost a year to the day to acheve this.

Mis-information, deliberate obstruction,  corporate structures and prodedures, all these things, conspired to impede progress. And worst, plain simple lack of knowledge on the part of the telcos involved.

Had we known it would involve this much time and hassle, frankly, we wouldn't have bothered. The reality is, we have to work in a commercial environment, and the time and effort involved was not warranted.  0870 serves us well.

This is an issue that the regulator needs to take up. These are barriers to switching provider and it is important that businesses can do so in order for competition to be effective.


03700000000 wrote on Oct 21st, 2011 at 10:52am:
Would we do it again? Simply put... no. 0870 is good. Which we appreciate, is not what this site is about. But that is the reality.

I long believed that the answer was a number range that does not cost more than a 01/02 call. In 2007 this was introduced in the form of 03 UK-Wide Numbers.

These give the same technical and operational benefits as 0870 numbers, but without the more expensive charges. Strangely, users of 084 / 087 numbers weren't calling for the introduction of such a neutrally-charged number range...


03700000000 wrote on Oct 21st, 2011 at 10:52am:
Whilst we see it from the users standpoint, if only our gripe was £3-4.00 for a 10 minute phone call, life would be grand.

At the end of the day, your company starting using a 0870 number when there was a benefit (at the expense of your callers). That was a business decision it took; to charge callers.


idb wrote on Oct 22nd, 2011 at 4:02am:
03700000000 wrote on Sep 15th, 2011 at 3:44pm:
[...] And on the wider point, the public wants cheap, or free calls to business. Sorry, but somewhere, somehow, calling a business will never be cheap, or free. [...]
I would argue that the public simply wants to be charged for the conveyance of the call (as in t'old days), not for the conveyance of the call plus an additional premium that ends up in the grubby hands of one or more other parties. Why should it be necessary for the recipient to add on an additional fee just to receive a call? It makes no sense. …

Ditto.
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Re: Migration Snags Moving from 0870 to 0370 NGN contd
Reply #10 - Oct 22nd, 2011 at 2:22pm
 
This has been a most worthwhile discussion.

It is interesting that X-On have been identified as champions of 03. As Speedy comments, they promote a 03 based system for NHS providers. It would be good for someone from X-On to come forward to take a strong role and perhaps receive some (implicit) endorsement from campaigners. Maybe someone would like to approach them to discuss this.


When Ofcom announces its firm proposals for new regulation of 084/087 numbers, in the next few months, this will be an ideal time for it to strongly draw attention to the ability of users to migrate to 03. This is what all those who need the benefits of a non-geographic number, but will not be prepared to declare a "Service Charge" on callers, will have to consider.

Ofcom cannot direct providers as to how they must promote their services, nor are they bound to offer migration. The fact is that they are able to, and they do.

There is no complex process to be defined, the user asks the provider, the provider applies to Ofcom for the 034 / 037 number and (assuming that they own the 084/087 equivalent) it all goes ahead smoothly. Where the 084/087 number has been ported from the original owner, there can be complications as the original owner has to be engaged. The fact that many such cases have been resolved satisfactorily means that these processes should now be much easier than when they were being encountered for the first time.


On the wider issue of attaching a premium to the cost of a telephone call, there are perhaps three distinct situations.

1. Where the user of the number wishes to benefit from the use of advanced telephone technology at no cost to themselves.

2. Where the user wishes to discourage use of the telephone as a means of contact and also wishes to recover some of the cost of handling telephone calls from those who make them, rather than from customers in general.

3. Where the phone call itself represents use of a chargeable service - e.g. directory enquiries, cricket scores.

The first of these, where the user claims to receive no financial benefit, is what has long been associated with 0845 numbers. There was a genuine desire to encourage the development and use of advanced network services on non-geographic numbers. Oftel / Ofcom price regulation (which could, until very recently, only apply to BT) has ensured that it is BT customers in general who bear the cost, rather than those who actually call 0845 numbers. Because there can be no assurance that other call providers will respect the spirit of this regulation on BT (and because it is dodgy anyway and the technical development issue is no longer relevant) this will shortly come to an end. In effect there will be no difference between this and the second case.

The second case, which is largely what has been discussed above, is the most difficult on which to form a clear judgement as to its acceptability. I take the view that it is totally unacceptable for providers of public services which are funded out of taxation to use this method of subsidising costs to the taxpayer. The vital point is that the charge imposed on the caller must be declared by the beneficiary. This introduces a complication because there are two beneficiaries (the telco and the person called), i.e. two elements to the charge. This is however what is happening ("behind the scenes") at present and if it is to continue, then it must be made transparent, even if at the expense of simplicity.

The third case is more straightforward. The problem with the present regime for "Premium Rate Services" is the fact that the differential charges imposed by the various telcos cannot be readily declared by the provider of the service. They will therefore naturally refer only to the cheapest (currently regulated) rate offered by BT. If we accept that there is to be a diversity of types of telephone call provision and providers, then there must be some freedom for telcos to set their own charges. Given that this freedom will shortly be extended to BT, there is again no alternative other than to have the "unbundled" approach, whereby the service provider declares their "Service Charge" and the telco their "Access Charge".


Ofcom had muddied the waters by defining the 0871/2/3 range as being used for "Premium Rate Services" when it belongs in the second of the categories given above, along with 084/3 numbers. This however reflected a problem that Ofcom had with the application and enforcement of regulation. It now defines all 084 and 087 numbers as "Business Rate" reflecting the (merged) first and second of my categories. The problem with application and enforcement of regulation does however remain and we will have to wait to see how Ofcom proposes to get around that.

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Re: Migration Snags Moving from 0870 to 0370 NGN contd
Reply #11 - Oct 26th, 2011 at 1:59am
 
SCV I couldnt work the quote so had to copy/paste para below - could you please clarify a few terms used:
User = GP    Provider = e.g which NEG or Talk   ported = reseller

There is no complex process to be defined, the user asks the provider, the provider applies to Ofcom for the 034 / 037 number and (assuming that they own the 084/087 equivalent) it all goes ahead smoothly. Where the 084/087 number has been ported from the original owner, there can be complications as the original owner has to be engaged. The fact that many such cases have been resolved satisfactorily means that these processes should now be much easier than when they were being encountered for the first time.

Sorry about quality of post but hunted in Site Related but could only find that you have to delete all of quote post not required - I am sure there must be easier - that was in 2007 I think   Grin

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Re: Migration Snags Moving from 0870 to 0370 NGN contd
Reply #12 - Oct 26th, 2011 at 5:14am
 
speedy wrote on Oct 26th, 2011 at 1:59am:
SCV I couldnt work the quote so had to copy/paste para below - could you please clarify a few terms used:
User = GP    Provider = e.g which NEG or Talk   ported = reseller

There is no complex process to be defined, the user asks the provider, the provider applies to Ofcom for the 034 / 037 number and (assuming that they own the 084/087 equivalent) it all goes ahead smoothly. Where the 084/087 number has been ported from the original owner, there can be complications as the original owner has to be engaged. The fact that many such cases have been resolved satisfactorily means that these processes should now be much easier than when they were being encountered for the first time.

Sorry about quality of post but hunted in Site Related but could only find that you have to delete all of quote post not required - I am sure there must be easier - that was in 2007 I think   Grin


The simplest way to quote part of a posting is indeed to hit the "quote" button and carefully select and delete the words you do not need. Standard Windows keyboard tricks, e.g. Shift+Ctrl+Down to select all of a paragraph do help.


With the example you have in mind:

User = GP - TRUE

The provider is the owner of the number. This would technically be Talk Talk (or rather its business services company, formerly known as Opal Telecom). Certain functions can however be performed on their behalf by their appointed "resellers" (agents) such as NEG. Exactly which of them has to approach Ofcom, I am not sure, however it is simply a matter of completing a standard form - once it has been established that this is all that needs to be done.

Porting is another business. Ofcom allocates blocks of numbers to providers, who "own" those numbers. To allow competition it is now possible to retain a number when changing provider. The number is said to be "ported" from the original owner to the provider who takes over provision of the telephone service on that number. Because ownership of the blocks of 034/037 numbers is implicitly with the original owners of the respective 084/087 blocks there is a bit of a complication.

Some companies have tried to use this as a lever to get back customers they have lost, claiming that they cannot migrate without returning. The point is that the 034/037 number cannot be used by another user, because these ranges are reserved for migration only. I believe that after some hairy cases in the early days, Ofcom has now got this sorted, so that the porting does grant ownership of the equivalent migration number.


I hope this makes it clear. The bottom line is that there should not be a problem with migration. If there is, then anyone who is erecting obstructions to this simple process must be identified, named and shamed.


Just for the record, two other quick points on porting.

Because mobile numbers are very frequently ported, you cannot know which network a number is on, and therefore what you may have to pay to call it, by looking at the number!

The situation with geographic lines is quite different. Numbers are not "ported" when you sign up to make calls through another company or even pay your rental to them.
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speedy
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Re: Migration Snags Moving from 0870 to 0370 NGN contd
Reply #13 - Oct 26th, 2011 at 11:50pm
 
Thanks SCV for the explanations - I know it is not for the PCT to tell a GP what to do - but 90% of GPs will say Who do I approach for advice? when they find that they have no option but to Migrate or be in Breach of Contract and I believe that logically they will ask the PCT.

When I let the PCT that I am helping know about the 03 migration option the first thing she asked was what if GPs ask 'How do we do that '? this is why I have been asking for this clarification.

When I told her about 03 Companies like X-on for when the System Hardware Provider's Contract ends if GPs find that the Hardware is too expensive, they will need to know that there are alternative Hardware Systems available for cost comparison.

I know this is looking well ahead but some GPs could be ending Hardware Contracts in say 4 years - if they have been living with 03 on their existing System for a year they could be looking for less expensive alternatives, it could take that long to find that alternative.

In the same way that I have been getting help and advice from SCV on my Mission so that there is no more mis-information flying around, GPs will want to know who to turn too for sound advice not what has been coming from e.g NEG etc. who knew exactly what they were doing.

There I go all logical again - I think Planet Vulcan must figure in my Ancestry somewhere  Grin Grin

Thanks SCV I will get to work on an Advisory and mail it to you first for checking as usual, so its ready to hand over when appropriate,
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« Last Edit: Oct 27th, 2011 at 12:04am by speedy »  
 
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Re: Migration Snags Moving from 0870 to 0370 NGN contd
Reply #14 - Oct 29th, 2011 at 11:34pm
 
I have looked at X-on 03 'Surgery Connect' this seems to be the 'Answer to a GP's Prayer' which appears to be completely Internet based.  I can see a couple of slight problems so far.

1. That there might be an elderly Deep Country GP that  "Dont 'old with them thaaar Electronicy thingys" but he would probable have a 'Geo number' anyway.

2. We all know that the 'Internet goes down from time to time' either local Telephone Exchange based or Area Based - Techies out there know more than I do. (My Yahoo Webmail would do a Yoyo proud lately. ) What say you Techies?

3. How is NEG/Daisy worked - is theirs Internet or Hardwired or both according to local circumstances ?

My final request is if I contacted X-on what would Posters on this Forum like me to find out and would Dave/Admin allow us to invite X-on onto the Forum to answer questions and explain things
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« Last Edit: Oct 29th, 2011 at 11:36pm by speedy »  
 
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