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Free 0800 0808 numbers for mobiles (Read 118,837 times)
Dave
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Re: Free 0800 0808 numbers for mobiles
Reply #15 - Feb 25th, 2012 at 2:57pm
 
There is a report today from The Independent:

Number may be up for costly 0800 and 084 calls

Quote:
Ofcom is now beginning a consultation with the mobile industry which is intended, according to the Communications minister, Ed Vaizey, to overhaul the regulation of "non-geographic calls. "Ofcom's proposals include the recommendation that 0800 should be free from all phones (fixed and mobile)," said the minister in a recent debate.

Further details are due from Ofcom when it launches its consultation, probably next month. Ofcom is expected to announce the final plan in September this year, with implementation coming in 2013 and early 2014. While it clearly wishes to make 0800 numbers free, it needs to check first that the law of unintended consequences does not prohibit such a move in such a complicated technological area.

Other aims Ofcom will bring forward include making the charging structure for calls more transparent.

The report makes a very valid point; that we should not rush into making 0800 numbers free to call from mobile phones without considering all the issues.

Whilst we may all wish to see a day when they are free, we cannot overlook the higher cost of transferring calls mobile phones which has yet to be addressed.

Calling for "freephone" numbers to be free to call from mobile phones now would leave the mobile operators to offset the lost revenue on other services or would require users of 0800 numbers to pay more for calls from mobiles. It is fanciful to think that mobile operators would make 0800 numbers free without these consequences, while ever the cost of termination of incoming calls is so high with respect to that of landline destinations.


We hear doctors saying that telephone companies should not charge extra for calling their Business Rate numbers. They believe that they should not be passing on the "Service Charge" to individual callers and should instead load it on customers in general. Essentially, their position is that someone else should pay whilst perhaps painting the picture that no one will pay and that it's someone else's fault that callers do pay more.

There are parallels between these doctors and with users of mobile phones who are calling for 0800 calls to be free, without acknowledging that this can only be so when the cost of termination issue is reduced. They made the choice to use a mobile phone in just the same way as the doctors opted for their phone systems. Both parties don't like it when the costs for those choices are put on themselves.
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« Last Edit: Feb 25th, 2012 at 3:05pm by Dave »  
 
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catj
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Re: Free 0800 0808 numbers for mobiles
Reply #16 - Feb 25th, 2012 at 4:50pm
 
If calls from mobile telephones to 0800 / 0808 / 0500 numbers were forced to be "no charge to caller" (and therefore by definition, "paid for by the recipient") various charities that operate such numbers would no longer be able to afford to do so.

There are plenty of unintended consequences to such a change.

Perhaps another 080x number range should be brought into use for those organisations that do wish to go that route?
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bazzerfewi
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Re: Free 0800 0808 numbers for mobiles
Reply #17 - Feb 25th, 2012 at 7:37pm
 
I strongly believe that 0800 and 0808 numbers should be FREE from mobiles I think for years mobile users have been discriminated.

In reply to the comment in regard to charities the simple solution is to use an 03 number this will enable charities to control the cost of the calls
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catj
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Re: Free 0800 0808 numbers for mobiles
Reply #18 - Feb 25th, 2012 at 7:59pm
 
bazzerfewi wrote on Feb 25th, 2012 at 7:37pm:
I strongly believe that 0800 and 0808 numbers should be FREE from mobiles I think for years mobile users have been discriminated.

In reply to the comment in regard to charities the simple solution is to use an 03 number this will enable charities to control the cost of the calls

And now you're forcing the charity to change all their stationery and take on additional advertising commitment.

Who's going to pay for that?


Don't forget 0500 numbers. They are the same type as 0800 and 0808.
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« Last Edit: Feb 25th, 2012 at 8:00pm by catj »  
 
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bazzerfewi
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Re: Free 0800 0808 numbers for mobiles
Reply #19 - Feb 26th, 2012 at 4:24am
 
On the scale of things the charity expenses are a drop in the ocean, although I do sympathise with their plight but mobile phone users are being ripped off to the tune of millions and something needs to be done about it.
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Re: Free 0800 0808 numbers for mobiles
Reply #20 - Feb 26th, 2012 at 7:17am
 
It will be interesting to see what ideas Ofcom has come up when it presents its latest proposals in a few weeks time. It has pondered on the responses to the 2010/11 consultation and looked into this matter further for around a year.

My own view on this issue is that it should wait until the issue of who pays the costs of connection to the mobile networks has been resolved. The gradual reduction in the termination fees which place this cost burden on callers to the mobile networks has some stages to go through yet - see the detail. Once that burden is carried by the Mobile Companies and their customers, there will be no problem in expecting uses of 080 numbers to bear the (essentially equal) cost of calls from all networks. As stated by others above, this is problematic whilst there is a significant difference.

This will have an effect on the volume (and perhaps quality) of calls received by users of 080 numbers, however I do not believe that this presents an adequate case for offering a different range of "freephone" numbers for those who may choose to refuse calls from mobiles.


The fact that a very large majority of callers pay for calls to 01/02/03 numbers through unlimited inclusive packages, rather than through a call charge, thereby making the marginal cost of any such call zero, diminishes the need for 080 numbers. It makes less sense for a call recipient to pay to receive every call if a significant majority of callers would not pay to call on a 03 number.

There is however the question of mobile PAYG customers and the future of this arrangement. It is they who would be the beneficiaries of use of a 080 number, however it is their number which is likely to be reduced as a result of the effect of the removal of the subsidy of their network connection cost by those who call them. Those who pay for a sizeable calls bundle or unlimited package could be seen to be already paying towards the cost of their network connection, for PAYG customers any such charge would be a new item.
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bazzerfewi
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Re: Free 0800 0808 numbers for mobiles
Reply #21 - Feb 26th, 2012 at 8:58am
 
I do not fully understand all the tarrifs and cost of connection charges and I do appreciate that the cost will be have to be paid. The only problem I have with the whole Free Phone issues is that the caller should not have to pay for 0800 0808-0500 calls when they have been free since their inception.

It is very simple as far as I can see 0800,0808, and 0500 have been free to the caller for years and mobile users should be provided with the same service.

The mobile sector is very profitable and time should be spent enforcing the fact that these numbers should always be free to the caller as they have always been.
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Re: Free 0800 0808 numbers for mobiles
Reply #22 - Feb 26th, 2012 at 9:45am
 
Dave wrote on Feb 25th, 2012 at 2:57pm:
There is a report today from The Independent:

Number may be up for costly 0800 and 084 calls

This article addresses issues which are relevant to a number of other threads and sections of the forum.

I have added online comments on a number of points:
Discussion of the relevant issues may be best undertaken in an appropriate thread.
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Re: Free 0800 0808 numbers for mobiles
Reply #23 - Mar 12th, 2012 at 10:15am
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2113448/Mobile-networks-face-ban-chargin...

Mobile networks face ban on charging customers for 0800 calls within weeks


    Currently, mobile users pay up to 40p a minute to dial the numbers, which are free to call from a landline
    They are used by many public bodies, including councils and the NHS

By Sean Poulter

PUBLISHED: 23:26, 11 March 2012 | UPDATED: 07:32, 12 March 2012


Ofcom is to ban mobile phone firms from charging customers who call 0800 numbers.

Currently, mobile users pay up to 40p a minute to dial the numbers, which are free to call from a landline and are used by many public bodies, including councils and the NHS.

The regulator is due to ban the practice within weeks and introduce rules to clarify other charges for so-called non-geographic numbers beginning with 08 or 09.
Currently, mobile users pay up to 40p a minute to dial the numbers, which are free to call from a landline and are used by many public bodies, including councils and the NHS

Currently, mobile users pay up to 40p a minute to dial the numbers, which are free to call from a landline and are used by many public bodies, including councils and the NHS

Such changes will help reveal the true cost of taking part in phone votes for reality TV shows such as Britain’s Got Talent.

Phone companies will be required to inform customers of the standard cost of calling an 09 premium number, while TV companies running the polls will have to show additional charges on-screen.

Ofcom is also planning to clear up the confusion surrounding the cost of using 118 directory enquiry services.

Scandals involving such services include one customer receiving a bill for £350 after he was connected to the number he wanted, while another was charged £62 after being put through to NHS Direct for medical advice.

As with 09 numbers, phone companies will be required to spell out the standard charge for calling a 118 service under Ofcom’s proposals.
Revealing: Such changes will help reveal the true cost of taking part in phone votes for reality TV shows such as Britain¿s Got Talent

Revealing: Such changes will help reveal the true cost of taking part in phone votes for reality TV shows such as Britain's Got Talent

Directory enquiry firms will also have to advertise what charges they apply on top of this figure.

The plans were first outlined at the end of 2010. Following a consultation, Ofcom is set to announce its decisions imminently.

The regulator’s chief executive, Ed Richards, has highlighted the need for change, saying: ‘There is clear evidence of widespread uncertainty and confusion about the cost of calling these numbers.

‘Consumers need to have far more transparency about the price they are going to pay for calls so that they can make more informed choices and so competition can work more effectively.

‘Making 0800 free from a mobile and giving people clarity about what they are paying for 118 directory enquiry services will improve transparency, improve competition and enhance trust in these important services.’


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« Last Edit: Mar 12th, 2012 at 10:17am by sherbert »  
 
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Re: Free 0800 0808 numbers for mobiles
Reply #24 - Mar 13th, 2012 at 12:27am
 
Quote:
The plans were first outlined at the end of 2010.

Doesn't seem like Ofcom have given it high priority if it's taken 18 months to get this far.
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bazzerfewi
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Re: Free 0800 0808 numbers for mobiles
Reply #25 - Mar 13th, 2012 at 4:21am
 
catj wrote on Mar 13th, 2012 at 12:27am:
Quote:
The plans were first outlined at the end of 2010.

Doesn't seem like Ofcom have given it high priority if it's taken 18 months to get this far.


I fully agree, it shouldn't have taken anything like as long as it has but at least the powers that be appear to be doing something constructive.

I also believe that this forum and the members have played a part in this outcome
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Re: Free 0800 0808 numbers for mobiles
Reply #26 - Mar 13th, 2012 at 10:14am
 
bazzerfewi wrote on Mar 13th, 2012 at 4:21am:
catj wrote on Mar 13th, 2012 at 12:27am:
Quote:
The plans were first outlined at the end of 2010.

Doesn't seem like Ofcom have given it high priority if it's taken 18 months to get this far.


I fully agree, it shouldn't have taken anything like as long as it has but at least the powers that be appear to be doing something constructive.

I also believe that this forum and the members have played a part in this outcome

The key point is that this situation should not have dragged on for as long as it has - when were mobile licences first issued?

The issue that needs to be resolved is over the call cost to be incurred by the user of the 080 number (the negative termination rate). Whilst the mobile companies inflate their termination rates to include costs that should be carried by their customers, rather than the other party to the call, receiving calls from mobiles to 080 numbers could be a very expensive business.

The termination rates for calls to mobiles are currently undergoing a process of phased reduction. I have argued that Ofcom should wait until this process is complete, so that the cost of receiving a 080 call from a mobile is very similar to that for receiving one from a landline, before going ahead with the change to regulation.

I argue that this will make it possible to shame those who withdraw their 080 numbers or block calls from mobiles when the change is introduced.

One must remember that the mobile companies currently waive their charges on callers to registered 080 helplines. There is the opportunity other users of 080 numbers to make arrangements for the charges for calls to their numbers to be waived in the way that DWP has done. If Ofcom went ahead with high negative termination fees, this would severely disadvantage providers of 080 helplines who would incur an increase in their costs without there being any new benefit to their callers.
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Re: Free 0800 0808 numbers for mobiles
Reply #27 - Apr 4th, 2012 at 11:49pm
 
Unable to reach the Ofcom web site all day, so can't look at the details. Perhaps someone can try from the UK:

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/consultations/simplifying-non-geographic-no/?ut...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17610232

4 April 2012 Last updated at 07:10 ET

<<
Mobile phone users could get free 0800 calls

Free calls to 0800 telephone numbers will be extended to anyone using a mobile phone, under plans announced by the regulator, Ofcom.

The vast majority of these calls are charged at up to 21p a minute for mobile users, under current rules.

But Ofcom wants to make these 0800 calls free, as they are from landlines.

A consumer watchdog said many callers already thought these calls were free for everyone and were hit with a shock when their bill arrived.

"This could be particularly frustrating if they have been kept on hold or on the line for a long time when dealing with a complaint to a company, on a number that is described as freephone," said Adam Scorer, of Consumer Focus.

"Many households living on low incomes - who can least afford the charges - only have access to a mobile phone. They are hit hardest by the cost of 0800 numbers from mobiles.

"Changes to make this part of the market simpler are long overdue. We would like to see them brought in as quickly as possible."

A final decision by Ofcom on the proposed new rules will be made by early 2013.

Ofcom said that the proposed changes were aimed at helping consumers "regain trust" in these phone numbers.

"By making calls to 0800 numbers free from all phones, we will clear up any uncertainty about making calls, especially from mobiles, to the benefit of consumers and service providers alike," said Ed Richards, chief executive of Ofcom.

Ofcom is also proposing to clarify and simplify charges to 08, 09 and 118 numbers, which include information, banking, directory inquiry and entertainment services.

Unless they are using a BT line, callers do not know how much the charges for such calls.

Non-geographic numbers can be used to call businesses and government agencies like HM Revenue and Customs and NHS Direct, make payments for services, and vote on television shows.

However, Ofcom said research had shown many people were confused about what non-geographic numbers were for and how much they cost, resulting in a lack of confidence and trust in the services.

As a result, consumers made fewer calls to these numbers, providers were discouraged from using them and there was less innovation that might benefit consumers.
>>
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« Last Edit: Apr 4th, 2012 at 11:50pm by idb »  

As from November 21, 2013, I no longer participate in the forum and am unable to receive private messages.
 
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catj
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Re: Free 0800 0808 numbers for mobiles
Reply #28 - Apr 5th, 2012 at 11:43am
 
The BBC news article said: Quote:
"Many households living on low incomes - who can least afford the charges - only have access to a mobile phone. They are hit hardest by the cost of 0800 numbers from mobiles.


The BBC failed to mention that 0800 (and 0808 and 0500) numbers are free to call from a BT public telephone.
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Re: Free 0800 0808 numbers for mobiles
Reply #29 - Apr 10th, 2012 at 2:41pm
 
at the start of march I complained to ofcom about 0845 (mainly due to a £30 bill I got for calls to the DWP).  I then got what looked like a copy and paste reply which stated 0845 is no longer advertised as local rate and they dont see a big issue with it.

I then proceeded to use an application to search google for 0845 and "local rate" and came up with 100s of hits, and forwarded it onto ofcom.  It seemed a coincidence within a few weeks they announced this for 0800 and 08xx numbers.

They did claim tho they were already leaning no the government to move all public services to 03xx from 08xx.

The suggestions I made to ofcom were.

0845/0870/0871/0844 etc. should be advertised as premium rate because thats effectively what they are on a lot of phone providers.
call rates should no longer only account for BT charges and ignore other networks.
Anyone who doesnt frequently move should use a geographical number. since 0845 is supposedbly to allow companies to redirect calls.
0845 should be included in all call allowances that include geographical numbers.

Although I didnt mention 0800 so this announcement may well have have been nothing to do with me and just coincidence Smiley

funny they call it confusion tho.

the situation is so bad that virgin media now actually charge more for 0845 than 0870.
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