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Energy Saving Trust 03 number wrongly described (Read 19,411 times)
bigjohn
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Energy Saving Trust 03 number wrongly described
Sep 30th, 2012 at 10:22am
 
Good that they offer 03 access. Shame they dont describe it properly.

"For FREE independent help and advice on how to save energy in your home, call our team of experts:

Monday to Friday 9am to 8pm; Saturday 10am to 2pm

0300 123 1234

All you pay for is for a national rate call!"

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Take-action/Get-free-advice

Could put some peeps off calling dont you think.
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« Last Edit: Sep 30th, 2012 at 10:27am by bigjohn »  

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CJT-80
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Re: Energy Saving Trust 03 number wrongly described
Reply #1 - Sep 30th, 2012 at 1:13pm
 
bigjohn wrote on Sep 30th, 2012 at 10:22am:
Good that they offer 03 access. Shame they dont describe it properly.

"For FREE independent help and advice on how to save energy in your home, call our team of experts:

Monday to Friday 9am to 8pm; Saturday 10am to 2pm

0300 123 1234

All you pay for is for a national rate call!"

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Take-action/Get-free-advice

Could put some peeps off calling dont you think.


I agree, so I shall e-mail them and give them some kind feedback..

I urge anyone else to do the same: http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Energy-Saving-Trust/Contact-us/Email-us

The address is: customer.feedback@est.org.uk

Smiley
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Re: Energy Saving Trust 03 number wrongly described
Reply #2 - Sep 30th, 2012 at 1:23pm
 
I have e-mailed the following feedback

"Dear EST,

Firstly I would like to congratulate you on the use of an 03 number for advice, as well as 020 Numbers. This is a very positive step, however I would like to draw you attention to the following information given on your webpage here: http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Take-action/Get-free-advice

“For FREE independent help and advice on how to save energy in your home, call our team of experts:

Monday to Friday 9am to 8pm; Saturday 10am to 2pm

0300 123 1234

All you pay for is for a national rate call!

The area highlighted in BOLD is the area I need to draw you attention to. The information is incorrect, it’s NOT charged at a National Rate Call, it’s Geographic Rate.  Whist this may seem a minor point, the use of 03 numbers can cause consumers to be unclear about the cost of calling them, and Ofcom has pointed at the some consumers are still unsure of the cost to call these numbers and believe they are expensive.

Further information is available here: http://media.ofcom.org.uk/2007/02/13/ofcom-introduces-uk-wide-03-numbers/

However I will quote one specific part:

03 numbers are being introduced as an alternative to chargeable 08 numbers like 0870. Calls to 03 numbers will cost the same as calls to geographic numbers (starting 01 or 02), and be included as part of any inclusive call minutes or discount schemes in the same way as geographic calls.

I hope EST will amend the incorrect information as soon as possible."

Smiley
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Energy Saving Trust 03 number poorly described
Reply #3 - Sep 30th, 2012 at 4:00pm
 
Sadly, at the present time there is no simple widely-understood phrase (i.e. “
xxx rate
”) to describe the cost of calling a 03 number. In fact the terminology is highly confused.

It is quite true to say that the cost is the same as that for calling a
national rate
number. It is possible that the EST consulted Ofcom, maybe reading this Ofcom publication - What are 03 numbers?, or others which I believe have been updated.

If there were any cases where calling a
local rate
number was cheaper, the higher
national rate
could apply to 03 calls. When this last happened (with Talk Talk including local, but not national, calls in some call plans), exceptional arrangements were made to treat all 03 numbers as
local
.

Ofcom's changing position

1. Ofcom originally proposed the term
UK rate
when 03 was launched, but this did not gain general acceptance.

2. Ofcom’s initial proposal under its “Simplifying non-geographic numbers” project was for the term “
Geographic
”, as shown below from the 2010/11 consultation:

...

3. Ofcom then returned to proposing the term “
UK
”, as shown below from the 2012 consultation:

...

4. Subsequently, Ofcom has changed its mind again. In further proposals, preliminary to the next major announcement expected at the end of 2012, it has returned to use of the phrase “
Geographic rate
”.

The solution?

A problem with the term “
Geographic rate
” is that there is no regulatory obligation not to offer calls to local geographic numbers at a lower rate. If this is done, then calls to 03 numbers do not have to be charged at this lower rate. (Talk Talk has now ceased its special arrangement, but there is nothing to prevent it from returning or being adopted by others.)

There is therefore no certainty that there will be a single rate for geographic calls, even though this is now the established practice for residential services. If local calls were to be charged at a lower (or more inclusive)
local rate
, is the higher alternative to be known as
national rate
or
geographic rate
?

It will be interesting to see if Ofcom moves to guarantee the clarity of “
Geographic rate
” by prohibiting discounts on local calls. We may then face the difficulty of whether or not to support, or call for, such a move. The objective of “simplification” would seem to demand it, but Ofcom would not be keen to prohibit discounting.


I seek here to outline a very confused position, which readers may wish to understand. Those who would rather not engage with confusing situations should disregard these comments.
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bigjohn
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Re: Energy Saving Trust 03 number wrongly described
Reply #4 - Sep 30th, 2012 at 6:23pm
 
Presumeably thats why some of the bigger users remain silent on the cost of 03 calls. Smiley

Ofcoms latest advice says

"How much do calls cost? Calls cost no more than calls to geographic
numbers (01 or 02) and must be included in inclusive minutes and
discount schemes in the same way. Calls from landlines are typically
charged between 2p and 10p per minute; calls from mobiles typically
cost between 10p and 40p per minute. Calls from landlines and mobiles are included"
http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/files/2010/01/numbering.pdf

I see even the current direct.gov advice talks about them costing no more then a national rate call.

"How much do calls to 03 numbers cost?

Calls to 03 numbers cost no more than a national rate call to an 01 or 02 number. They must also count towards any inclusive minutes in a phone contract in the same way as 01 and 02 calls.

These rules apply to calls from any type of line including mobile, BT, other fixed line or payphone.

Revenue sharing – where the dialled organisation can receive a share of what the consumer pays to make a call – is not available on calls to 03 numbers."


http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Hl1/Help/DG_173539
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« Last Edit: Sep 30th, 2012 at 6:32pm by bigjohn »  

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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Energy Saving Trust 03 number wrongly described
Reply #5 - Sep 30th, 2012 at 11:34pm
 
bigjohn wrote on Sep 30th, 2012 at 6:23pm:
I see even the current direct.gov advice talks about them costing no more then a national rate call.

The quoted text is lifted directly from the Ofcom publication referred to in my previous posting -

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Sep 30th, 2012 at 4:00pm:
… this Ofcom publication - What are 03 numbers?, …


The term
National Rate
was also used here - http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/2008/12/the-03-alternative/.


I have dug up another Ofcom proposed term from 2006 - "
countrywide
":

...

Any other suggestions?
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derrick
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Re: Energy Saving Trust 03 number wrongly described
Reply #6 - Oct 1st, 2012 at 12:08pm
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Sep 30th, 2012 at 11:34pm:
Any other suggestions?



From a post elsewhere, the BBC are now calling 0370 "local rate from a landline", on Points of View, http://www.bbc.co.uk/i/b01n5y4k/?t=14m12s


.
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catj
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Re: Energy Saving Trust 03 number wrongly described
Reply #7 - Oct 1st, 2012 at 1:39pm
 
Quote:
Calls to 03 numbers cost no more than a national rate call to an 01 or 02 number. They must also count towards any inclusive minutes in a phone contract in the same way as 01 and 02 calls.

That seems the clearest, though I would add the word geographic in there somewhere.
Quote:
Calls to 03 numbers cost no more than a national rate call to an 01 or 02 geographic number. They must also count towards any inclusive minutes in any landline or mobile phone contract in the same way as 01 and 02 calls.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Energy Saving Trust 03 number wrongly described
Reply #8 - Oct 1st, 2012 at 2:38pm
 
Quote:
Calls to 03 numbers cost no more than a national rate call to an 01 or 02 geographic number. They must also count towards any inclusive minutes in any landline or mobile phone contract in the same way as 01 and 02 calls.

I see no need to introduce the remote possibility of there being a distinction between local and national rates to a voluntary statement that is only intended to be helpful. The widespread (mistaken) assumption that there is a distinction may cause readers to (wrongly) believe that 03 calls are more expensive than local calls.

We are however dealing here with lengthy statements, rather than simple terms.
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CJT-80
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Re: Energy Saving Trust 03 number wrongly described
Reply #9 - Oct 3rd, 2012 at 9:42pm
 
It would appear it pays to contact them,

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Take-action/Get-free-advice

Now reads "All you pay for is for a standard geographic rate call!"
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catj
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Re: Energy Saving Trust 03 number wrongly described
Reply #10 - Oct 7th, 2012 at 8:01am
 
CJT-80 wrote on Oct 3rd, 2012 at 9:42pm:
Now reads "All you pay for is for a standard geographic rate call!"

While that's better, it's still incomplete.

Many people won't have to pay.

"Calls to 03 numbers cost the same as calling 01 and 02 numbers. Where a landline or mobile call package has inclusive minutes to 01 and 02 numbers, 03 numbers are always included too."
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Re: Energy Saving Trust 03 number wrongly described
Reply #11 - Oct 7th, 2012 at 2:05pm
 
in that case perhaps you'd like to contact them and point that out?

Smiley
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Energy Saving Trust 03 number wrongly described
Reply #12 - Oct 7th, 2012 at 2:23pm
 
To be fair, they have probably done as well as can be expected in 11 words, given that there is no clear base of public understanding of these matters.

The phrase "all you pay …" is fairly understood to mean that one may pay less. "All" implies a maximum.

I might take issue over whether the word "standard" helps or hinders understanding, but I cannot say that it is either "right" or "wrong".

Let us hope that Ofcom settles on a term that will be widely used and become properly understood.
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derrick
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Re: Energy Saving Trust 03 number wrongly described
Reply #13 - Oct 8th, 2012 at 11:55am
 
But if you want "Advice about travel and transport", it is an 0845 number, (0845 602 1425), with no mention about the costs.

.
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Re: Energy Saving Trust 03 number wrongly described
Reply #14 - Oct 8th, 2012 at 9:19pm
 
derrick wrote on Oct 8th, 2012 at 11:55am:
But if you want "Advice about travel and transport", it is an 0845 number, (0845 602 1425), with no mention about the costs.

.


Perhaps it is worth you e-mailing them to advise? The e-mail is listed in my link.

Smiley
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CJT-80

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