http://www.lep.co.uk/news?articleid=3100349

<<
Changing the number of a telephone information line will cost council tax payers £32,000 because signs on 8,000 bus stops throughout the county are being replaced.

County Coun Tony Martin, cabinet member for sustainable development at Lancashire County Council, was expected to approve funding for new signs on Thursday.

The signs will give the revised Traveline number which Ofcom changed from the premium rate 0870 to a national rate 0871 200 22 33 number.
>>

Journalism at its finest.

OMGG!!! What is this world becoming?

idb wrote on Aug 9^th, 2007 at 11:18pm:

The signs will give the revised Traveline number which Ofcom changed from the premium rate 0870 to a national rate 0871 200 22 33 number.

There's that naughty Ofcom doing its work again!

idb wrote on Aug 9^th, 2007 at 11:18pm:

http://www.lep.co.uk/news?articleid=3100349 << . from the PREMIUM rate 0870 to a national rate 0871 200 22 33 number. >> Journalism at its finest.

Well at least Lancashire County Council recognise a PREMIUM rate when they see one!!!! ;) ;)  ::):) :) ;D

However, 0871 is apparently a NATIONAL rate!!!!! :o :o ::) >:( :'( :'(

I don't see why the heck the taxpayer should have to foot the bill for a private company to change its phone number?! Traveline should be footing the bill since they decided to change the number, not Ofcom. Ofcom just told them they wouldn't be able to get revenue off 0870 numbers any more - which Traveline, who obviously profit from their 0870 number, took to mean we must move to the most expensive 0871 number so we keep our revenue going.

Ofcourse, Lancashire County Council wouldn't have this issue if they just publicised the number for their local PTE call centre number - just Metro and SYPTE do in Yorkshire :).

Why don't you write to Lancs CC making these points?    And refer to the SAYNO.... campaign.  

You should refer them to the Consumer Protection Act 1987 which states : ------

"Under the Consumer Protection Act 1987, it is an offence to give misleading price indications to consumers, and the maximum penalty is an unlimited fine. Liability can extend to the business which provided the number, if they gave incorrect pricing information to the advertiser."

And under Trading Standards: -----

"You should not use the terms ‘local rate’ or ‘national rate’, or any reference to local or national rates. You also should not use words which could imply a local or national rate (eg. ‘Lo-call’, ‘low rate’, ‘National call’, ‘standard rate’)."

To avoid any confusion, they should make it clear that most callers will pay more to contact them on a Special Services number than on a geographic number ---- or face the possiblity of prosecution under the Act.

And keep us on this site updated.

I have spoken to the reporter at Lancashire Evening Post,(LEP), and he has said that he will get back to me after finding out some more info and will,hopefully, do an update to this.

I have also e-mailed Traveline with this query:-

Can you please inform me if Traveline is publicly funded and if so why are you using a covert revenue sharing number,(0871), contrary to COI regulations to display a geographical number with equal prominence, or to use one of the new 03 numbers that are now available.


And received this reply:-

Dear Derrick,

Thank you for your email on the 10th August.

In response to your query where you ask why we chose to use a “revenue sharing number “please find my response as follows:

All literature we produce that carries the Traveline number clearly states the cost of the call per minute. 0871 numbers are used to provide business rate services and are in compliance with ICSTIS (premium-rate number regulator www.icstis.org.uk). GMPTE and GMPTIL in the interest of customer service and awareness display call charges as standard practice on all information produced baring the number.

The decision was made by the National Traveline board when an enforced change to number ranges by BT was announced. Many of our customers indicated that they prefer a “one stop shop” number where they only have to record a single number to answer all there public transport enquiries regardless of where they are in the UK, this upholds the board decision that a national number is an important principal hence the move to 0871.

An increase of cost would have been incurred by remaining with 0870; this cost would be passed on to the PTE and service providers. In choosing to move to a 0871 number we can sustain the Traveline service whilst providing the consumer price transparency for the call with a static financial impact to all parties.

I hope that this has addressed your concerns, however please do not hesitate to contact me should you require further assistance.



Lynne Hagan

Operations Manager


GMPTIL

2 Piccadilly Place, Manchester M1 3BG

www.gmpte.com



Also this in another e-mail:-

GMPTE is not a public transport operator, but acts as a co-ordinating body for
certain aspects of bus, rail and tram operation within Greater Manchester

derrick wrote on Aug 13^th, 2007 at 10:35am:

Many of our customers indicated that they prefer a “one stop shop” number...

And why does this "one stop shop" number have to be non-geographic? I think the argument that "people don't like calling numbers outside of their geographic area" is not an excuse that will pass any longer! Considering the vast majority of their "customers" are likely to be people stood at a bus, rail or tram stop, therefore using a mobile phone, completely nullifies any ideas surrounding "non-local geographic" numbers. And of course, the fact that an 0871 number costs (atleast!) 35p a minute from a mobile has completely passed Traveline by...


derrick wrote on Aug 13^th, 2007 at 10:35am:

An increase of cost would have been incurred by remaining with 0870; this cost would be passed on to the PTE and service providers. In choosing to move to a 0871 number we can sustain the Traveline service whilst providing the consumer price transparency for the call with a static financial impact to all parties.

Only because it would be charged at the same rate as a geographic call, with none of the revenue going to Traveline. Also, transparency - bah! Most people have absolutely no idea how much it costs to call a non-geographic number, let alone an 0871 number. "10p from a BT landline" - how many people are still on BT? How many people are likely to call this on a mobile?

That reply is basically a cover for Traveline making profit from your calls, and not really caring about how much it costs the normal consumer to ring them as long as they make a healthy profit from it. As I'll keep pointing out (and did you mention that to GMPTE Derrick?) Metro and SYPTE seem to do perfectly well with a geographic number in West and South Yorkshire respectively. I don't think I've ever heard any complains about ringing Leeds or Rotherham (respectively) if you don't live in those areas but require travel information!

jgxenite wrote on Aug 13^th, 2007 at 11:06am:

As I'll keep pointing out (and did you mention that to GMPTE Derrick?) Metro and SYPTE seem to do perfectly well with a geographic number in West and South Yorkshire respectively.

I did not in my first e-mail to them, but I have done in my reply to theirs.

Be interesting to see how they weasel their way out of that one :). I suspect the old "one national number for all" excuse will be used...

Possibly, but that would include 01/02/03, not the most expensive NGN, I mean, come on why go from one that will cost 6p per minute, (from a BT line), to one costing 10p per minute? anyone NOT know the answer please sit in the corner

jgxenite wrote on Aug 13^th, 2007 at 2:45pm:

Be interesting to see how they weasel their way out of that one :). I suspect the old "one national number for all" excuse will be used...

Well I know that they have opened the e-mail I sent earlier, at 12-12 p. m., they opened it 5 minutes later

Yes, they could easily have gone for a less costly non-geographic number (admittedly though, all non-geographics are premium rate on mobiles!) but instead went for the most expensive one. I suspect that either they don't care (most likely) or they aren't actually aware of how much non-geographic numbers cost on mobiles.

I suspect that they are formulating a way of weaseling their way out of it :), hence the not so quick reply.

Quote:

All literature we produce that carries the Traveline number clearly states the cost of the call per minute. 0871 numbers are used to provide business rate services and are in compliance with ICSTIS (premium-rate number regulator www.icstis.org.uk). …

This paragraph starts off so promising. Stating the cost of the call is a step in the right direction, so long as this doesn't involve an "national rate" rubbish.

Second sentence mentions "business rate". This makes me sick as it is yet another term coined by the telecoms industry in much the same guise as the afforementioned "national rate". So-called business rate is an excuse to rip-off the consumer. It makes the price of a telephone call (practically speaking) be fixed between providers. You won't find a provider that will charge less than the quoted (BT) rates for a particular 0871 number. You will find mobile providers charge more. It's corporate arrogance and nothing to do with providing telecommunications services.


Quote:

The decision was made by the National Traveline board when an enforced change to number ranges by BT was announced. …

Ah yes, it's BT's decision.  ::)

Can someone please inform Ms Hagan and "the board" that BT no longer make such decisions and that it is now in the hands of Ofcom?


Quote:

Many of our customers indicated that they prefer a “one stop shop” number where they only have to record a single number to answer all there public transport enquiries regardless of where they are in the UK, this upholds the board decision that a national number is an important principal hence the move to 0871.

Aside from the fact that "there" should have been "their", a move to 0871 did not mean that they had to charge 10 pence per minute at all times. 0871 numbers can be set at different (BT) "pricing points", so please ask Ms Hagan why they opted for the maximum, rather than one the same as (or nearly the same as) the 0870 number. One word springs to mind: Greed.


Quote:

An increase of cost would have been incurred by remaining with 0870; this cost would be passed on to the PTE and service providers. In choosing to move to a 0871 number we can sustain the Traveline service whilst providing the consumer price transparency for the call with a static financial impact to all parties.

Oh, so Traveline is being paid exactly the same amount of revenue from the new 0871 number it was with the 0870 one? I was under the impression that higher call charges means more revenue is available.

Also, the way in which the originating telco (the provider the caller is with) retains an amount cost-based amount. This is how it is calculated when calls come from a BT line. Thus, the weekend and evening call rates are lower which means that there is more for the telco providing the NGN. Some 0871 providers pay more during the evening and weekend.

So, either Ms Hagan is lying, or Traveline and its "board" has not negotiated as good a deal as it might have done with its telco.

Dave wrote on Aug 13^th, 2007 at 4:24pm:

So, either Ms Hagan is lying, or Traveline and its "board" has not negotiated as good a deal as it might have done with its telco.

A little bit of both I suspect.

It looks like Travelline use BT as their supplier.

Looking here BT pay just over 2p/min in revenue for calls received on one of their 0871.  That means BT keep around 7/8ppm.

derrick wrote on Aug 13^th, 2007 at 2:52pm:

jgxenite wrote on Aug 13th, 2007 at 2:45pm: Be interesting to see how they weasel their way out of that one :). I suspect the old "one national number for all" excuse will be used... Well I know that they have opened the e-mail I sent earlier, at 12-12 p. m., they opened it 5 minutes later

Still no reply from Traveline  ::)

My suspicion would be that head office has probably told them not to bother answering questions above and beyond the "bog standard crud" they sent you in the first email. They know they can't justify why they are using such an expensive number, and why a normal geographic would not be sufficient for their purposes.

On Friday 10th August I e-mailed the councillor mentioned in the LEP article with the question " why is taxpayers money being used" he had opened it on the 11th August but as of today had not bothered to reply to me, so I e-mailed him again with the following:-

I would like to know why you have not had the common decency to respond to my e-mail,( copy attached), sent to you on the 10th August 2007 and opened by you on 11th August,( my e-mails are tagged, and I know when they are opened by the recipient).

Also what is the meaning of your title "cabinet member for sustainable development"? as you do not seem to be sustaining taxpayers money by flagrantly throwing it around like confetti to a private company,(Traveline), so that they can boost their profits by means of a covert premium rate phone number,(0871)?

If you do not respond to me, as one of your paymasters, then I will obtain the answer via the Freedom of Information Act, citing your refusal to cooperate as the reason behind the FOI request.    


He replied with this after 1 hour:-

Dear Mr ******, if you would be pleased to turn it round in what you call your mind, you will find you have asked a few detailed and complicated questions. If you have not the curtsey to wait for an answer perhaps you would like to move straight on to the Ombudsman. She has offices in York, I can get you the address if you would like. Having now formally responded I have put your letter to the very bottom of my in tray. FIA that!

Yours etc,

Tony Martin




  I have already replied to him in the same arrogant manner, and will now request the info via FOI.

derrick wrote on Aug 14^th, 2007 at 4:02pm:

I have already replied to him in the same arrogant manner, and will now request the info via FOI.

Derrick, I have to say that I feel that you should have given him time to respond (a week or two) and that your email which started off "I would like to know why you have not had the common decency to respond to my e-mail..." is really rude and aggressive in itself.

The basis for investigating the new Traveline number is a good one and one I hope that newspapers will be interested in. I also hope you will bring up other points raised on here like why they opted for a maximum priced 0871 number and not one charged same as or similar to 0870 and whether they get more revenue from 0871. If they don't, then clearly they have not got as good a deal as they should have done if we accept the 0871 number.

E-mail received from councillor Tony Martin:-

Dear Mr ******, I have now collated the information I needed to get you a full, informed and reasoned answer. It won't suit your prejudice, but then the facts rarely do. This will be the last email I send to you. Another fact you won't like. Councillors in this country do not get a salary as you claim; we get a basic allowance, responsibility allowances and expenses for costs incurred. To business:

Traveline in Lancashire

Traveline in Lancashire is managed by PTi Limited, a company limited by guarantee. It is a partnership company funded by Lancashire County Council, Blackpool Council and Blackburn with Darwen Council and all commercial bus operators in the County with Directors appointed from local authorities and bus companies. It is a "not for profit" company and is part of a network of Traveline call centres throughout the UK.

Traveline was established in 2000 following a requirement from the Department for Transport (DfT) to create a national network of Traveline call centres using a single telephone number platform (0870). The 0870 608 2 608 number, originally used in Lancashire for transport enquiries, was chosen as it was a national number that was able to be routed geographically to the nearest Traveline call centre and was also able to create a small national income stream that would pay for the use of the number and generate a rebate to pay for the national management of Traveline along with small rebates to the regions throughout the UK and for future developments, like a national SMS service and website.

In 2006 OFCOM changed the way 0870 numbers could be used. It would have been possible to stay on the 0870 telephone platform but this would no longer generate income and nationally Traveline would have to pay to receive calls. Therefore authorities, like Lancashire, would require an ongoing revenue stream to fund the service. It was also a continuing desire from the DfT that the UK should retain a single number for public transport enquiries. The national Traveline Board, after consultation with the regions, opted for a new number 0871 200 22 33 whereby calls from a landline cost 10p per minute. This option was chosen as it would allow for an income to pay for the ongoing national management of the service along with future developments and future rebates to the regions when income through usage has increased. Appropriate reference is made to this cost on publicity material and has been agreed by the regulating bodies and Traveline nationally.

The Lancashire Evening Post article stated "The signs will give the revised Traveline number which OFCOM changed from the premium rate 0870 to a national rate 0871 200 22 33 number". The cabinet report submitted actually says "changes to the national Traveline phone numbers following an Office of Communications decision in January 2006 to revise all 0870 numbers". There is no mention in the cabinet report of either "premium" or "national rate" therefore the confusion appears to have arisen from the wording of the Evening Post article.

In Lancashire, LCC are responsible for the maintenance and replacement of all public transport information including bus stop plates. As all plates in Lancashire, approximately 8000, have the Traveline phone number on they need to be updated with the new number, which has already come into effect, but is running in parallel with the current 0870 number until January 2008. As part of a national requirement to promote this single number, LCC along with most other local authorities in the UK have to make arrangements to update all their infrastructure. External, commercial, organisations like Stagecoach, First Bus and Arriva also have to update their information and bus liveries.

Whilst Lancashire County Council explores all opportunities to use its budgets as efficiently as practical, it is difficult to accommodate additional expenditure resulting from costs outside its direct control. The recent changes in the Traveline telephone number and Government legislation/County Council policies on prohibition of smoking in bus shelters, which has required additional signage, it is necessary to apply for additional capital funding to assist in this task.

The change in the telephone number is out of the Local Authorities direct control, Traveline is part of a national public transport enquiry service and provides a valuable service to the people of Lancashire.

Yours etc,

Tony Martin


You can see the arrogance of the man re this quote from the e-mail:-  "This will be the last email I send to you."

It still continues to bemuse me why LCC (or Traveline for that matter) cannot also provide the number for local Traveline centres. I suspect the wording that relates to them "receiving profit" from their calls explains the fact as to why they have the most expensive 0871 number, and are unwilling to publicise such numbers. Tony got it wrong, mind, saying that it would cost 10p from a landline as that is only a requirement if you happen to be on some silly BT tariff - that rate may be lower or higher on other landline services, and we already know that it costs a premium if you call it from a mobile phone!

Received today from Lancashire County Council, most, if not all is posted above,#21, but there is a bit extra, plus the link.

Dear Mr. ,

Further to your request made under the Freedom of Information Act, we are now in a position to respond. Each point raised in your email is addressed in turn below; and we will respond to your enquiry regarding the use of 0845 by way of a separate email to avoid confusion.

1)     Why is taxpayers' money being given to a private company so that they can change the phone number on their signs so that they, (covertly), increase their revenue from Traveline's phone number?

In order to answer this part of your enquiry, we have prepared the following explanation regarding the Traveline service and the manner in which it operates.

Traveline in Lancashire is managed by PTi Limited, a company limited by guarantee. It is a partnership company funded by Lancashire County Council, Blackpool Council and Blackburn with Darwen Council and all commercial bus operators in the County with Directors appointed from local authorities and bus companies. It is a "not for profit" company and is part of a network of Traveline call centres throughout the UK.

Traveline was established in 2000 following a requirement from the Department for Transport (DfT) to create a national network of Traveline call centres using a single telephone number platform (0870). The 0870 608 2 608 number, originally used in Lancashire for transport enquiries, was chosen as it was a national number that was able to be routed geographically to the nearest Traveline call centre and was also able to create a small national income stream that would pay for the use of the number and generate a rebate to pay for the national management of Traveline along with small rebates to the regions throughout the UK and for future developments, for example a national SMS service and website.

In 2006 OFCOM changed the way 0870 numbers could be used. It would have been possible to stay on the 0870 telephone platform but this would no longer generate income and nationally Traveline would have to pay to receive calls. Therefore authorities, like Lancashire, would require an extra ongoing revenue stream to fund the service. It was also a continuing desire from the DfT that the UK should retain a single number for public transport enquiries. It was the decision of the national Traveline Board, after consultation with the regions, to opt for a new number 0871 200 22 33 whereby calls from a landline cost 10p per minute. This option was chosen as it would allow for an income to pay for the ongoing national management of the service along with future developments and future rebates to the regions when income through usage has increased. Appropriate reference is made to this cost on publicity material and has been agreed by the regulating bodies and Traveline nationally.

The Lancashire Evening Post article stated "The signs will give the revised Traveline number which OFCOM changed from the premium rate 0870 to a national rate 0871 200 22 33 number". The cabinet report submitted actually says "changes to the national Traveline phone numbers following an Office of Communications decision in January 2007 to revise all 0870 numbers". There is no mention in the cabinet report of either "premium" or "national rate" therefore the confusion appears to have arisen from the wording of the Evening Post article.

In Lancashire, the County Council is responsible for the maintenance and replacement of all public transport information including bus stop plates. As all plates in Lancashire, approximately 8000, have the Traveline phone number on, they need to be updated with the new number, which has already come into effect, but is running in parallel with the current 0870 number until January 2008. As part of a national requirement to promote this single number, Lancashire County Council along with most other local authorities in the UK have to make arrangements to update their entire infrastructure. External commercial organisations like Stagecoach, First Bus and Arriva also have to update their information and bus liveries.

Whilst Lancashire County Council explores all opportunities to use its budgets as efficiently as practical, it is difficult to accommodate additional expenditure resulting from costs outside its direct control. The recent changes in the Traveline telephone number and Government legislation/County Council policies on prohibition of smoking in bus shelters, which has required additional signage, it is necessary to apply for additional capital funding to assist in this task.

The change in the telephone number is out of the Local Authority's direct control. Traveline is part of a national public transport enquiry service and provides a valuable service to the people of Lancashire.


The rest follows in the next post.

Follow on post,  

2)     I require all the minutes from the meetings relating to this abuse of taxpayers money and Tony Martin's role in the matter.

As indicated in our response to your first question, the decision was taken at national level by the Traveline Board, not by Lancashire County Council. As such, County Councilllor Tony Martin was not involved in the decision to change the number; and no minutes relating to his role in this matter therefore exist. His role was as the appropriate Cabinet Member whose approval was sought for the capital expenditure relating to the new Traveline information branding on bus stops and other public transport signage throughout Lancashire. The report submitted by the Executive Director of Environment relating to this matter is attached herewith. This is also accessible on the Lancashire County Council website at the following URL:

http://www3.lancashire.gov.uk/council/meetings/displayFile.asp?FTYPE=D&FILEID=16481

We trust that your find this informative, but if you are not satisfied with this response for any reason, please write to The Freedom of Information Officer, Lancashire County Council, PO Box 78, County Hall, Preston, PR1 8XJ or email freedomofinformation@lancashire.gov.uk

Following this, should you remain dissatisfied, you then have the right to refer the matter to the Information Commissioner, whose contact details are as follows:

Information Commissioner's Office

Wycliffe House

Water Lane

Wilmslow

Cheshire

SK9 5AF

01625 545 745

Email: mail@ico.gsi.gov.uk

http://www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk/

Yours sincerely,

Freedom of Information

Lancashire County Council

PO Box 78

County Hall

Preston

PR1 8XJ



Tel: (01772) 531115

Fax: (01772) 530949

email: freedomofinformation@lancashire.gov.uk


The part highlighted relates to the attachment they sent which is the url link!

With the exception of Traveline moving suppliers for their telephone number then it would appear that for them (traveline) to continue to gain revenue stealthly (the very common method used these days  >:( ) then they really had no choice except move to an 0871.

BT here provide some information for their customers using 0870 and in the links provided it becomes apparent that to continue using an 0870 will cost Traveline (in this case) an extra 5p/min (approx) for incoming calls on an 0870 once revenue sharing is prohibited.

BT don't appear to offer revenue share on 0844 * (even at 5p/min) so that would mean the only course of action to keep receiving revenue without us consumers knowing about it is to migrate to an 0871.

It kindof leaves the question, how BT can stay in business with regards to their 08x numbers when most (if not all) other suppliers of these numbers can offer things more cheaply and with more revenue?

Maybe if this was the case then Traveline may have opted for an 0844 number although not ideal it would still be 50% cheaper than their current number!



* Revenue share maybe possible for really high users of 0844 like large businesses with call centres, etc.

Hi bbb_uk,
You said that:

“Maybe if this was the case then Traveline may have opted for an 0844 number although not ideal it would still be 50% cheaper than their current number!”

But 0844 can cost more than 0870 outside the day rate. Also, 0844 cost more than 0870 from a pay phone, at all times.

kk wrote on Sep 19^th, 2007 at 6:54pm:

But 0844 can cost more than 0870 outside the day rate.

I said in comparison to their current number which is an 0871 costing 10p/min from a landline.

However, from a mobile then either both 0844 and 0871 are same price or 0871 is more expensive i'm not sure.  As for payphones I really have no idea how much it costs for any numbers these days!

bbb_uk wrote on Sep 19^th, 2007 at 5:27pm:

With the exception of Traveline moving suppliers for their telephone number then it would appear that for them (traveline) to continue to gain revenue stealthly (the very common method used these days  >:( ) then they really had no choice except move to an 0871. BT don't appear to offer revenue share on 0844 * (even at 5p/min) so that would mean the only course of action to keep receiving revenue without us consumers knowing about it is to migrate to an 0871.

So why didn't Traveline end their ripoff deal with BT and move to a supplier that gave them a better deal at least allowing them to use 0844 as a replacement for 0870, while still earning the same revenue share.


Quote:

It kindof leaves the question, how BT can stay in business with regards to their 08x numbers when most (if not all) other suppliers of these numbers can offer things more cheaply and with more revenue?

Because of people like my Brother in Law an ultra conservative (with a small c) school teacher who is worred anyone other than a huge corporate name like BT may not be reliable.

Of course most of us will say BT is thoroughly complacent and also delivers the worst service of the lot but you try telling my brother in law that.

The thought of a local authority paying to change all the numbers to ICSTIS controlled premium rate is enough to make you want to vomit.  I don't how they square this with their duties under the COI's government contact centre guidance policies.

derrick wrote on Sep 19^th, 2007 at 3:31pm:

Traveline was established in 2000 following a requirement from the Department for Transport (DfT) to create a national network of Traveline call centres using a single telephone number platform (0870). The 0870 608 2 608 number, originally used in Lancashire for transport enquiries, was chosen as it was a national number that was able to be routed geographically to the nearest Traveline call centre and was also able to create a small national income stream that would pay for the use of the number and generate a rebate to pay for the national management of Traveline along with small rebates to the regions throughout the UK and for future developments, for example a national SMS service and website.

If it was a requirement, why do PTEs like Travel South Yorkshire and Metro, along with Transport for London (not sure if this is a PTE) use normal geographic numbers? Is it possible that they realise that using a non-geographic number is a total rip-off for their customers and so prefer to use a normal geographic number which people know will cost a certain amount of money for them (even be free in some cases).

I sent the following to Lancs C C;-

Re your point, "Traveline was established in 2000 following a requirement from the Department for Transport (DfT) to create a national network of Traveline call centres using a single telephone number platform (0870). The 0870 608 2 608 number, originally used in Lancashire for transport enquiries, was chosen as it was a national number that was able to be routed geographically to the nearest Traveline call centre and was also able to create a small national income stream that would pay for the use of the number and generate a rebate to pay for the national management of Traveline along with small rebates to the regions throughout the UK and for future developments, for example a national SMS service and website."

If it was a requirement, why do PTEs like Travel South Yorkshire and Metro, along with Transport for London (not sure if this is a PTE) use normal geographic numbers? Is it possible that they realise that using a non-geographic number is a total rip-off for their customers and so prefer to use a normal geographic number which people know will cost a certain amount of money for them (even be free in some cases).

Please supply me, under the FOIA, with the geographical telephone number that the expensive 0871 number is pointed at, please do not inform me that this number does not exist, as it is the way these numbers operate and does exist.




Result! Received the following from Lancashire County Council;-


Dear Mr. ******

South Yorkshire PTE and Metro have used their local numbers for many years prior to the 0870 number being established. They decided to retain their numbers on the basis that this is the number that people were aware of in this area. However, they also handle Traveline calls on 0870 and now 0871; and if you dial this number in the local area you will be connected to the South Yorkshire or Metro Call Centre.

Prior to 2000 Lancashire did not have a single transport enquiry facility. In 1999 the 0870 number was developed to allow people from all over Lancashire to be routed to their nearest County Information Centre. This created a single point of entry into the information network from throughout the County, therefore not requiring different numbers from every town in the County. This number was then chosen as the national number as it was proved to work effectively.

As public transport in London has not been deregulated, the situation is different; and although the Capital has a long established call centre with a well used local number, this also handles Traveline calls that are geographically routed if you call on the 0870/0871 platform.

In relation to your enquiry made under the Freedom of Information Act, we are able to advise you that the geographical number in respect of Traveline in Lancashire is (01772) 849100.

We trust that you find this informative, but in the event that you are unhappy with our response for any reason, please write to The Freedom of Information Officer, Lancashire County Council, PO Box 78, County Hall, Preston PR1 8XJ, or email freedomofinformation@lancashire.gov.uk

Finally! And also we now have a further understanding as to why Metro and SYPTE have geographic numbers. I wonder if we would be able to persuade Lancashire County Council that they should use the geographic instead of Traveline's 0871 number... However, ensure that they are adequately thanked for releasing the geographic number to us.

derrick wrote on Sep 29^th, 2007 at 10:57am:

In relation to your enquiry made under the Freedom of Information Act, we are able to advise you that the geographical number in respect of Traveline in Lancashire is (01772) 849100.

I've moved this to the verified list now.  ;)

For Attention ofthe Webmaster:

CORRECTION

The number given by Freedom of Information was 01772 849100.  This just rings out, but the number that is the same as used on the 0871 number, which is the one you want is in fact:

01772 849101

Please update the entry under Traveline, and put Lancashire in the right column.

(NB the add facility is not working, and this forum is the ONLY way to send corrections and updates to the lists at present, as the verification codes are NOT working!)

Great we have the Lancashire one now.  There are still some missing though:

Cumbria: 01946 (Based in Whitehaven)
South East, South West and East Anglia - all based in Plymouth! (01752).
Traveline Cymru is based in Morthmadog, and is an 01766 number, but I know no more than that.  

Thanks.

jimbo2005 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2007 at 1:19am:

The number given by Freedom of Information was 01772 849100.  This just rings out, but the number that is the same as used on the 0871 number, which is the one you want is in fact: 01772 849101 Please update the entry under Traveline, and put Lancashire in the right column.

I have updated this number.