Hi,

We're an Irish e-commerce business expanding into the UK and I'm in the process of doing some research on what number to get.

I've been reading the info on this site and have found it very useful. We have the same issue in Ireland and there is a similar site I'm a fan off (saynoto1890[DOT]com).

My query is; we would like a non-geographical number that is included in landline and mobile bundles so as we're not or our customers are not changed when contacting us.

What number should we go for?

Keep in mind, I'm reluctant to go for a 02 London number as we want to target the whole of the UK and not just London.

Thanks in advance for any advice given!

Cheers,
Brian

If you need a non-geographic number, you'll need a number starting 03.

If you are starting out with a brand new number, you'll need a number starting 033.

If you already have a number starting 084 or 087 it can be changed to the matching number starting 034 or 037.

Calls to 03 numbers are inclusive from landlines and from mobiles, else charged at geographic rate, the same as for calls to geographic 01 and 02 numbers.

The non-geographic number company will need to be paid for handling and forwarding the calls. If you shop around you should be able to find deals where you pay a small fraction of a penny per minute for incoming calls.


If you choose a number starting 084, 087 or 09 (don't do this!), you force those costs onto callers, and (since 1 July 2015) you have to declare this Service Charge in close proximity to the number everywhere the number is advertised or promoted. With this type of number (084, 087 or 09), everyone else in the chain also adds their margin, really ramping up the cost to callers. Since 13 June 2014, it is not permitted to use this type of number for post-sales helplines, see Regulation 41 of the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. Additionally, usage of 084, 087 and 09 numbers for sales and pre-sales enquiry lines is a well-known 'sales prevention technique'.

Do also have a read of http://www.fairtelecoms.org.uk/service-numbers-08-09-and-118.html and the pages it links to.


Additionally, do not be tempted to use numbers starting 055, 056 or 070. These have weird call charges and most consumers distrust them so much they would go out of their way to avoid calling them.


Ireland has a big problem with 1850, 1890 and various other such numbers. The EU Consumer Rights Directive was a massive opportunity to put things right, but the Irish Government really messed it up and consumers have not gained the protection that was intended by the EU. I posted some background information on various .ie consumer forums at the time, but there was little interest or response.

Thanks for the detailed reply Ian.

No, no number yet hence me making sure we get the right one as I know how much negative number associations can effect people calling etc.

03 looks perfect for what I need (non-geographical and incl. in all bundles etc.).

The main issue over here is that companies advertise 1890 as "lo call" but it couldn't be further from the truth as it's not included in any bundles, so those of us that are aware have to ring the Calling from abroad number. I made a few enquires to ComReg several years ago but they didn't seem interested. Once they make operators include 1890 in bundles it should be fine.

Making 1890 numbers inclusive would likely be the wrong move, especially if done in isolation. It would seemingly repeat the mis-step made by Ofcom here in the UK on 1 August 2009 in relation to 0870 numbers. As there is a financial benefit to the called party and their telecoms provider, those types of numbers should not be inclusive as this hides the true arrangement of the subsidy. Ofcom reversed their mis-step on 1 July 2015 and additionally split the call cost for all 084, 087, 09 and 118 numbers into two parts each separately declared. Ireland doesn't yet have the equivalent of the non-geographic 03 numbers used here in the UK. Maybe if ComReg and Ofcom speak to to each other, this idea may get passed on eventually.


The UK now has three types of non-geographic numbers, each with clearly defined call charges.

03 - calls are inclusive from landlines and mobiles else charged at 'geographic rate'. Most people pay nothing for each individual call to these numbers. Those who do pay for individual calls pay the same as whatever they pay for calls to 01 and 02 numbers.

080 - calls are free from landlines and from mobiles.

084, 087, 09 - calls incur an Access Charge to the benefit of the caller's landline or mobile provider plus a Service Charge passed on and paid to the benefit of the called party and their telecoms provider. Various regulations disallow the usage of these numbers for many purposes. Where the Service Charge is more than 7p per minute or per call, the number is defined as a Controlled Premium Rate Service and subject to additional regulation by PhonepayPlus.


The cost or benefit to the called party varies depending on the type of number.

03 - called party pays the non-geographic call-handling and call-forwarding costs.

080 - called party pays the non-geographic call-handling and call-forwarding costs as well as paying an additional Call Origination Fee to compensate the caller's landline or mobile provider for the fact that the caller paid nothing for the call.

084, 087, 09 - the called party generally pays little or nothing. Instead, callers pay the non-geographic call-handling and call-forwarding costs through the imposition of a declared Service Charge. Any excess Service Charge revenue is paid out to the called party in the form of revenue share else is used to provide a discount off other telecoms services supplied to the called party. Callers also get stung for a massive Access Charge payable to their landline or mobile provider.


More than a decade after 0845 numbers ceased to be charged at 'local rate', they are still widely described as such. This despite both Ofcom and ASA issuing clear guidance in September 2005 and the further change of regulation on 1 July 2015.

In reply to the post regarding 03 numbers, why would a company opt for a 03 number when for the same tarriff an 0800/0808 number is FREE for all callers and as I understan it the tarrif and set up is very simular or even the same price

The cost to the called party of running an 080 number is substantially higher than for an 03 number.

03 - called party pays the non-geographic call-handling and call-forwarding costs. For calls forwarded to a UK landline this may be as low as 0.3p per minute for lines with a high volume of incoming calls. The cost to the called party for calls forwarded to a mobile number or to an international destination will be higher.

080 - called party pays the non-geographic call-handling and call-forwarding costs (much the same as for an 03 number) as well as paying an additional Call Origination Fee to compensate the caller's landline or mobile provider for the fact that the caller paid nothing for the call. The additional Call Origination Fee may be in the range 1p to 4p per minute for incoming calls made from a landline and several pence per minute more for incoming calls made from a mobile phone. For incoming calls made from a BT payphone the Call Origination Fee is around 80p per minute.

Most people make all of their calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers as part of an inclusive allowance on their landline or on their mobile. It is usually pointless for organisations to pay extra for an 080 number when most people can already call 03 numbers without incurring any extra charge. An 080 number is necessary only when there is a requirement to guarantee that all callers pay nothing for the call.

Certain charities may qualify for the Special Freephone Tariff organised by the Helplines Partnership. This arrangement sees the called party pay reduced fees for an 080 number making the running costs about the same as for an 03 number. These numbers usually begin 0808 80.

I would agree with Ian01 on either using an 01/02/03 number.  These are ALL geographically charged (the only difference as stated is that the 03 number has no geographic "location" attached to it)

They are included in land-line and mobile minutes and all present an easy number to the caller.

If you do use an 03 number remember to include a point that they are charged at standard geographic rates  :)


Ian01 wrote on Dec 29^th, 2015 at 6:44pm:

If you need a non-geographic number, you'll need a number starting 03. If you are starting out with a brand new number, you'll need a number starting 033. If you already have a number starting 084 or 087 it can be changed to the matching number starting 034 or 037. Calls to 03 numbers are inclusive from landlines and from mobiles, else charged at geographic rate, the same as for calls to geographic 01 and 02 numbers. The non-geographic number company will need to be paid for handling and forwarding the calls. If you shop around you should be able to find deals where you pay a small fraction of a penny per minute for incoming calls.

I did a search on-line and they appear to have 0345 numbers offered to purchase, so I wonder if some companies do them as well?

:-?

Whatever you do decide to do, shop around and get a good deal!  Also do come back and let us know how you got on  :)

Ofcom's numbering plan defines that 034 and 037 numbers are available only to those organisations who already operate the matching 084 or 087 number. If a particular 034 or 037 number is required, there's nothing to stop an organisation first activating the matching 084 or 087 number and then activating the 03 version of that number.

It does appear that some telecoms providers are bending the rules by supplying both (08 and 03) numbers at the same time, and others are directly offering 034 and 037 numbers for sale without any prior sale of the matching 084 or 087 number. Just be aware that a company that bends these rules may be bending others as well.

You'll also see 030 numbers being offered. These are reserved solely for government departments and their agencies, public services, healthcare services and charities. There is no difference in how these numbers are charged, they're just 03 numbers like any others.

Many telco employees do not fully understand the 03 rules. I personally was told that 030 numbers had a different taffif to other 03 numbers, when I challenged the agent they retminated the call. If Virgin Media give out incorrect information what chance have we got of other telcos getting it right.

It doesn't help matters that various websites that explain call charges often list 030 separately to all of the other 03 numbers. They do this because they are explaining that the former are available only to government departments and their agencies, public services, healthcare services and charities. Those readers who aren't paying attention often incorrectly assume that this means they are charged at a different rate. They aren't.

YES I have experienced that too, Virgin Media tried to tell me that the 030 numbers had a differant tarrif to 034 numbers. If VM can't get it right what chance has anybody else got.

One possibility opened up by allocating separate blocks of 03 numbers for use by public bodies and charities was that of providers offering lower than normal rates for calls to these special numbers.

This point was pressed on Talk Talk when they briefly introduced a system (which was later abandoned) of treating "local" 01/02 calls differently from 01/02/03 "national rate" calls. We suggested treating all 030 numbers as local, citing the example of the Metropolitan Police, which had then recently adopted one. In the end Talk Talk decided to treat all 03 numbers as "local" under the scheme.

Now that the overwhelming majority of calls to all 01/02/03 numbers are made under the terms of inclusive packages or bundles - partly so as to avoid the excessive "penalty charges" which are applied to "out of package" calls - distinction between different 03 numbers is now of little consequence. There are also many public bodies using 034 and 037 numbers, having migrated from the equivalent 084 and 087 ranges.

There is also an interesting piece of history associated with this. Initially, one central government department had the idea of allocating all the numbers in the 030 range to all public bodies according to function, in a monster centralised plan! The plan looked beautiful on paper - but it was never going to work in practice, as indeed it was abandoned.