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Message started by kk on Nov 22nd, 2004 at 9:32pm

Title: The EU - MEP - 0870 numbers
Post by kk on Nov 22nd, 2004 at 9:32pm
I am not a fan of the EU, but I have sent the following letter to my MEP:

" .....  I am concerned at the increasing use of non geographical telephone numbers (0870  0871 and 0845) by organisations and Government departments in the UK.  The numbers are erroneously titled “national rate” and “local rate” numbers, but in fact are always charged at a premium above the normal  national or local rate. Even the so called “local rate numbers” (0845) are charged at or above the standard UK national rate.   0870 numbers are charged at a150% premium to the normal national rate, that is 7p to 8p, compared to the normal national rate of 3p/min.   0845 numbers are charged at 4p to 3p, compared to the normal national rate of 3p.   0871 numbers are 10p/min at all times - a minimum 230% premium.  The normal local and national UK wide tariff is merged into one rate of 3p/min.

I am concerned that calls originating from EU member states  to a UK non-geographical number attracts an extra premium and in some cases can not be used outside the UK.  The organisations receiving the telephone calls often receive an undisclosed  premium of up to about half the cost of the call. I consider the above to be a barrier to free trade and against the treaty provisions, regulations and directives of the EU.  It is also uncompetitive as alternative telecoms providers are obliged, by the nature of non-geographical numbers price structure, to also charge the same premiums.

The UK has a government organisation, Ofcom, which amongst other things,  regulates the UK telecoms market.  I feel that Ofcom has paid insufficient regard to the points I have made above about the use of non-geographical numbers and the general principle of free trade and free competition.  Under the doctrine of “Direct Effect” Ofcom may be in breach of EU law. I would also assert that government departments and government agencies who also use non-geographical numbers are also in breach of EU law.   BT, who is not a government department, may also be liable, as under EU law,  BT would be considered as an emanation of the state (Foster v British Gas [1990] ECR I-3313).

The UK does have a special category of premium telephone numbers starting with 09, to which special rules apply.  It is inexcusable that 0870, 0871 and 0845 number are not  placed in this special premium category.  By not placing those numbers in the premium category Ofcom are  helping to hide the true cost and nature of 0870, 0871 and 0845 numbers.

Can you ask the Commission to investigate this matter...."




Title: Re: The EU - MEP - 0870 numbers
Post by Gazzer on Nov 22nd, 2004 at 10:01pm
I wish I knew who my MEP was.

Title: Re: The EU - MEP - 0870 numbers
Post by Tanllan on Nov 22nd, 2004 at 11:01pm
I wish I cared.

No, that is awful and quite (very) irresponsible.

Have a look in http://www.europarl.org.uk/uk_meps/MembersMain.htm for your MEP.

Title: Re: The EU - MEP - 0870 numbers
Post by Guest on Nov 22nd, 2004 at 11:44pm

wrote on Nov 22nd, 2004 at 9:32pm:
0871 numbers are 10p/min at all times - a minimum 230% premium.

Unfortunately, you are wrong on the cost of 0871 calls - they vary between 3p and 10p.

Title: Re: The EU - MEP - 0870 numbers
Post by Gazzer on Nov 23rd, 2004 at 8:34am

wrote on Nov 22nd, 2004 at 11:44pm:
Unfortunately, you are wrong on the cost of 0871 calls - they vary between 3p and 10p.


Where can I find this information, particularly 0871 calls for 3p?

Title: Re: The EU - MEP - 0870 numbers
Post by Shiggaddi on Nov 23rd, 2004 at 9:40am
You log onto www.magsys.co.uk

Then click on "online code look"

You can then put in the number in full, and it lists the cost of the call, based on standard BT rates, and the name of the provider of the number.

It lists all types of non geographic numbers, it also tells you the network of mobiles, although it can't distinguish between virgin and t mobile!!

If you put a geographic number, you can find out where it's located, and whether it's BT, or cable line.

Premium rate numbers are also included.

0871 numbers are between 6-10p minute, and 0844 numbers are 1p-5p minute.  If of course you can find an 0871 costing 3p minute, I stand to be corrected!!


Title: Re: The EU - MEP - 0870 numbers
Post by Guest on Nov 23rd, 2004 at 9:41am

wrote on Nov 23rd, 2004 at 8:34am:
Where can I find this information, particularly 0871 calls for 3p?

Just click on the "they vary between 3p and 10p" link I supplied in my first post.

Be aware though that the prices vary according to the number range.  

For Shiggaddi, there appears to be a number range - but only one number range  (08710901xxx) - which is charged (by BT) at 3p/minute.

Title: Re: The EU - MEP - 0870 numbers
Post by jrawle on Nov 23rd, 2004 at 10:47am

wrote on Nov 23rd, 2004 at 9:40am:
You log onto www.magsys.co.uk

Then click on "online code look"

It lists all types of non geographic numbers, it also tells you the network of mobiles, although it can't distinguish between virgin and t mobile!!


That's a nice site. I usually use http://www.ukphoneinfo.com/ which gives much the same information.

Re Virgin mobile, they are a virtual operator using the T-Mobile network, so that's why they are listed as T-Mobile in the databases. I've been unable to find a list of codes used by Virgin which is a pity as SMS between Virgin mobiles are only 3p, but not to T-Mobile phones.

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