My daughter has just started at Swansea Uni - all rooms have a phone (NTL) and the students have to buy a phone card for phone calls and internet. However, the numbers are 0870 numbers! Does this mean that it costs me more to phone my daughter than it would with a regular area code number?

Yes. What rate does it cost to call out (landlines/mobiles etc)? It may be cheaper for her to call you. You would obviously have to see that she had enough credit for it.

Do you have a BT line?

I don't know the call costs, I'll have to ask her to find them out.

Yes, I am with BT.

0870 Costs from BT Landline
Daytime -- 7.51p/min
Evening -- 3.75p/min
Weekend -- 1.5p/min

I presume you're on BT Together.

Option 1 (the one where you're charged for all calls) costs 3p/min to geo nos in the daytime and 5.5p for upto 1hr evening and weekend.

NTL have registered the following codes in the Swansea area (assuming it's the area with an 01792 code):

01792 53
01792 52
01792 54
01792 61
01792 51
01792 60
01792 42
01792 55
01792 41

You just need to try each in turn.

For example if your daughter's number is 0870 xxx 1234, try dialling 01792 41 1234.

There aren't many to try, but you can eliminate some by entering the codes into Google and see if there are any businesses listed with that code.
For example, a few companies come up if you search for "01792 60" (you need the quotes when you use Google) so this range of numbers probably isn't used for the Uni.

If you find the number, the same code will work for everyone in the university. So make sure your daughter tells the Students' Union and advertises it about the campus!

You are lucky if this works. At Leicester they are using a "national dialling only" number for the university residences, so the geographical number can't be phoned from most phones  :(

I'm thinking along the same lines as you Johnathon. At least it's not BT else we could be here for ever, at least we have a chance.

I'm looking at the list of prefixes and it gives their allocation dates, the lastest being allocated were 01792 60 and 01792 61 which were 11/99 and 08/00 respectively. My money goes on one of these.

I would try the newest first (assuming these lines have been put in within the last 5 years). In order newest to oldest they are:
01792 61
01792 60
01792 55
01792 54
01792 53
01792 52
01792 51
01792 42
01792 41

You could try these number prefixes (don't forget dialing 141 before the number hides your number  ;) ) mumof1.

Any more questions, just ask. We can't guarantee anything, but we can have good try.  ;)

Thank you

I tried all of those numbers but none worked for my daughter's phone  :(

Some of them had 'number not recognised', some sounded like fax noises....a couple rang out and one was answered. Any more ideas?  ;D

I presume that when she dials out, the ID is withheld. If it is, she could try dialing her mobile, and put 1470 before dialing number. 1470 releases the ID on a line which is set to be withheld by default. The number might come up, worth a try.  :-/

I hope you understand that,let us know.  :)

I think I've found what the number used to be before they decided to rip people off. I found someone's CV where he quotes his phone number as 01792 52xxxx (his address is in one of the university residences).

This is a similar situation to Leicester, where the code was 0116 215 before they changed to 0870. Now the underlying number is 0116 005, which can't be dialled from BT lines. But surely if they are using one of these special numbers in Swansea, it would still appear on the Ofcom spreadsheet. Would it definitely have a 01792 code?

We've tried the 1470 thing - she got "calls to this destination are not allowed" -  the ba****ds!

wrote on Sep 24^th, 2004 at 10:20am:

I think I've found what the number used to be before they decided to rip people off. I found someone's CV where he quotes his phone number as 01792 52xxxx (his address is in one of the university residences).

Does the number still work?

If it does, it would be useful to know which 0870 it is connected to. I doubt the person on the other end will be too forthcoming about giving out a number to a stranger.

I still think that the last few (2?) digits may be the same. How many lines/rooms are there? Hundreds, thousands? If it's less than a hundred then it may only be the last 2 digits that are the same.

Johnathon (if the number still works), what is the first four digits of that number? Mumof1, try putting the last 2 digits of the 0870 with Johnathon's number.

I can't find it now... Also, there are a few companies with 01792 52 numbers, so maybe it was his office number.

You could ask returning students what the phone numbers used to be before they switched to 0870. But the old numbers defnitely won't work - if they did, people would continue to use them (out of habit, even if they weren't trying to save money). The old numbers in Leicester don't connect to anything now.

I agree that they could have mapped the numbers to different sub-ranges of codes allocated to NTL, but I can't see how to find them without trying very many numbers.

Judging from Swansea's website, there are thousands of rooms in university accommodation.

Hi,
I'm trying to find out a geographic number for the same NTL setup at Oxford Brookes university.
Can you tell me where/how you found out that series of numbers NTL had registered?

Brad.

All numbers are here:
Telephone Numbers administered by Ofcom

Dave, I've had such a laugh reading through this lot!  My daughter has just started at Leicester Uni, and I am busy trawling through phone sites to get the most economical way of keeping in touch with her i.e. landline and mobile access.  Then lists have to go up next to the two phones so as my husband and sons know what to dial to get through to her.  It's like jumping through hoops as we are dealing with Onetel, Planet Talk, 18866, 1899 and, of course, BT.  By the way, does anyone know the number to dial to bypass Onetel at the exchange so you revert back to using BT to make the call, if you know what I mean.  Thanks.   ;)

To force calls to go via BT instead of onetel dial 1280 and then the number you want.

wrote on Sep 27^th, 2004 at 11:17pm:

Dave, I've had such a laugh reading through this lot!  My daughter has just started at Leicester Uni, and I am busy trawling through phone sites to get the most economical way of keeping in touch with her i.e. landline and mobile access.

The trouble is, there's very little difference between the prices for 0870 numbers on different networks because of the operator (NTL in this case) taking a cut of the call revenue.

I found the geographical number for accommodation at Leicester. It's 0116 005 xxxx (where xxxx is the extension number). However there is a problem with dialling this from most phones. Some people have suggested that BT have a legal obligation to let you call any number, so maybe you should hassle them. And do try calling that number from any landlines or mobiles you might have on different networks.

I should add that it's quite reasonable to make calls to landlines from the NTL student phones - it was just under 1p/min last time I checked, although that was a long time ago. This compares favourably to the ~8p a minute it costs to call an 0870 number, so I can only suggest getting your daughter to call you - you can always buy the credit for her phonecard.

Similar problem with daughter starting at Exeter Uni.  System operated by Keycom plc.  Anyone any suggestions on how to get the real number from one which starts with 0870?

Thanks

wrote on Sep 28^th, 2004 at 11:51am:

Similar problem with daughter starting at Exeter Uni.  System operated by Keycom plc.  Anyone any suggestions on how to get the real number from one which starts with 0870?

Bad news. From http://www.swern.net.uk/usergroup/meetings/minutes140503.html


Quote:

Exeter University has been approached by Keycom PLC to run voice over IP telephony services for student residences via JANET.

That means these calls are not being routed via the standard switched phone network, i.e. the 0870 number isn't an alias for a real number, but is instead a front-end to an internet phone service.

If your daughter has an internet connection in her room, I suggest using one of the free VoIP systems such as Skype instead of using the phone with an 0870 number.

This makes me wonder about the system at Swansea, for which there doesn't seem to be a geographical number. Perhaps NTL are using VoIP too.

Quote:

Perhaps NTL are using VoIP too.

I'm sorry to be thick but could you explain that to me please?  ;D

VoIP is Voice over Internet Protocol and now VoB is Voice over Broadband.

These are services that allow calls over internet connections.  I have VoB from BT and am very, very impressed.  I have a number which begins 05511 (yuk! - too much like a premium number - but I am badgering BT for a friendly (geo) number.

Hope this helps you a little!

Voice over IP (VoIP) means that you make calls over the internet. The sound is encoded and carried as internet traffic, rather than going down the phone wires to the telephone exchange in the traditional way. It is exactly the same as making a voice call using a service such as MSN Messenger or Skype.

However, whereas VoIP started as a free way to hold voice conversations over the internet, phone companies are now muscling in with pay-for services. The advantage is that you get a real phone number that people can call from an ordinary phone.

Skype is a great service because you can speak to anyone else in the world who has Skype for free. You can also call any standard phone in the world for a reasonable cost. See http://www.skype.com/. The only thing you don't get is a number that people can call from an ordinary phone.

If people at university have internet connections in their rooms, and rip-off 0870 phones, I suggest discarding the phone for all but emergencies and using VoIP instead. (Sadly this isn't an option for people at Leicester as they still don't have internet access in rooms...)

As far as Swansea goes, however the phones are set up, we aren't able to find a geographical number at the moment, so maybe VoIP is an alternative if they have internet connections.

If these VoIP have no geographical alternative, then:

• Why has Ofcom not given them another prefix code?
  
• Will Ofcom wake up and move all these VoIP services to another number range, causing yet more inconvenience of numbers changing, simply because they're no good at what they're supposed to be doing?
  
• They are charged at a higher rate than 'normal' land lines.
  
• Communications companies have managed to screw more out of the public again. Ofcom doesn't seem to be very up on technology when it makes its rules, which the likes of NTL are only too aware of.
  

wrote on Sep 28^th, 2004 at 3:49pm:

If these VoIP have no geographical alternative, then: Why has Ofcom not given them another prefix code?

It was in the news earlier this month that Ofcom had announced a special code for VoIP calls: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3630888.stm.
The trial at Exeter predates this announcement.

The code allocated for this purpose is (according to the BBC) 056. Interestingly, a previous poster says he used VoIP with the code 05511.

There is no "geographical alternative" in this case because the call simply isn't being routed to a phone that is geographically located somewhere. Presumably the VoIP user could log in from anywhere in the world to answer his calls.

Even if Ofcom force providers to give all VoIP users an 056 number, you can bet the providers of student phone services will still hide them and force people to use 0870 numbers!

Probably a good job I'm not joining my daughter in Exeter as I'm still unclear as to what I do to phone (using a TalkTalk ordinary land line) or use my computer to call her and what she needs to do to either receive a call from me or make a call herself!

Can anyone help?  Thanks

wrote on Sep 28^th, 2004 at 4:11pm:

Probably a good job I'm not joining my daughter in Exeter as I'm still unclear as to what I do to phone (using a TalkTalk ordinary land line) or use my computer to call her and what she needs to do to either receive a call from me or make a call herself!

Using the in-room phone, there's probably nothing you can do except pay to call the 0870 number. It's probably cheaper for your daughter to phone you than for you to phone her.

The alternative I was promoting is only viable if the room has an internet connection and you have broadband at home. Then you should look into Skype and use that to talk for free.

Thanks alot.  My daughter does have an internet connection in her room and we do have broadband at home.  So I'll get on the Skype web site when I get home tonight and follow the instructions!!

 Hi Paula,   To override One.Tel, try 121, I'm pretty sure it hasn't changed since I last  used it. Good luck!

As given in my earlier reply - to override onetel dial 1280.  You can get further information from onetel.

Hi pauld, Maybe 121 is the no. for overriding One.Tel when your line comes through NTL by cable, which is what mine does. Or maybe it has changed, I must admit I haven't used it for quite a while.

The address if helpful is:

Swansea University,
Singleton Park,
Swansea
SA2 8PT

Area Code: 01792

Hope this is helpful in finding out the geographical nos. for rooms.  Unfortunately, the internal extension numbers have nothing in common with the 0870 external numbers :( and I've tried the area codes listed on P1 of this topic.  Can anyone help with finding them out?? 8)

I can understand all of you having the want to enablel this person to recieve calls to a geographical number.

but hasn't it occured to you that the best way to smite ntl would be to ring your daughter on the weekends using 1899?

The price of ringing mobiles on the weekend using 1899 is very reasonable. Only 2p/min and a 3p connection charge. I understand this more expensive than you can ring the 0870 number on BT but what better way to stop NTL getting more money.

Personalyl I can't stand the company after what they did at Soutahmpton university. They prevented the students from using a LAN in halls for six years because they wanted to tie them into 1p/min dialup for as long as possible.

One last thing,

Does your daughter own a laptop and is there wi-fi access in her room. If so get her to register with www.sipgate.co.uk and she will recieve a free UK geographical number which will enable her to recieve calls on her laptop. As electricity is effectively free in halls she can leave it on all day.

If she wants to ring you there's a long thread on moneysavingexpert about using a program called firefly combined with 1899 VoIP. If she used that she wouldn't have to pay anything to call you.

wrote on Mar 31^st, 2005 at 2:14pm:

...Unfortunately, the internal extension numbers have nothing in common with the 0870 external numbers ...

Who told you that?

OK, so they don't have to be the same ending, in which case you might as well start dialing every Swansea number there is!

Maybe the number you're looking for is in a neighbouring code, as is the case with Southampton Uni.  :-/

wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2005 at 1:37am:

Who told you that?

I know that because I'm a student there (doing a proper course 8)) - none of my friends in halls have 0870 numbers which bear any resemblance to the internal extension numbers :'(

I'm not too sure about the theory about a different area code but being the nice open-minded type of guy that I am, I'll try and find out the relevant area codes from neighbouring areas ;D  

On the subject of 01792 codes on the OFCOM list, I have found the following to be allocated to "ntl group ltd":

01792 41
01792 42

01792 51
01792 52
01792 53
01792 54
01792 55

01792 60
01792 61

01792 62 - allotted to "Torch Communications" - I think I may have read about this company being in charge of Oxford Uni 0870 numbers somewhere on this site... :-/

There are some codes within 01792 which have their status as "protected"... does anyone know what this actually means and whether these could potentially be geographical codes for the 0870 numbers in question? :-/

I would have thought that the geographical numbers would be related to the 0870 numbers, rather than the internal extensions in that case.

The fact that the extensions are different to the 0870 numbers could be a clue. Perhaps they are only able to get the 01792 numbers in blocks of 1000 (i.e. 3 digits). It could be that all of those codes you listed are used for certain ranges of numbers.

You need to do a bit of research, ask as many people as possible their external and internal numbers, and see if there's a pattern.

Torch is part of Kingston Communications, who provide services in many university halls.

"Protected" means that those numbers can't be allocated to any phone company for some reason (they are reserved for future use, or they are especially memorable - e.g. 01234 56 numbers are protected!)

The only way to be sure if VoIP is in use is to search the web for any minutes or press releases detailing the deal the univsersity has done with the company.

Of course, you can ask the university for all this information (including the geographical numbers, if any exist) under the Freedom of Information act. Give it a try!

wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2005 at 4:31pm:

I know that because I'm a student there (doing a proper course 8)) - none of my friends in halls have 0870 numbers which bear any resemblance to the internal extension numbers :'(

Eh? Where are you staying? My internal extension at Swansea (I'm doing a proper course too) is 79*** and my 0870 number is 08702 826*** (*** = the same three digits).

Indeed, mmmmmm is correct.  (and yes, I admit, I was wrong :'()

My internal is 79*** and the external is 0870 282 6***

So how do we work out the geo numbers? ??? I'm all out of ideas :(

Who's added the alternative for Swansea University Accomodation as 0870 282 **** -> 01792 295101  ?

How does this work then? Is that someone's room? Should it be 01792 29****?

I've been dialling but when I got to 01792 61**** (the code allocated to Torch Communications Ltd) I found there was a steady tone as if to indicate the dialled number didn't exist.  However, it took about a second longer than the tone usually does to kick in and I think it may be a fake tone to stop GN dialling.  

Could someone try 01792 616254 and let me know whether you're convinced?

wrote on Apr 11^th, 2005 at 8:07pm:

Could someone try 01792 616254 and let me know whether you're convinced?

This number rings. I suggest you try it again. Are you calling from a BT line?

Sorry - I meant 01792 626254 :-[

And yes, I'm using a BT line.

wrote on Apr 4^th, 2005 at 9:31pm:

Who's added the alternative for Swansea University Accomodation as 0870 282 **** -> 01792 295101  ? How does this work then? Is that someone's room? Should it be 01792 29****?

I've just checked the internal phone directory for the university - ext. 5101 is the accommodation office. Whoever added the entry must have managed to persuade them to put them through once, but I doubt that they'd be very happy if hundreds of people calling students start calling them! :-D

I found the geographical number for dialling Swansea University Accommodation Rooms: 01792 55**** (the last four digits of the extn number) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  (now you all must worship me 8))

Unfortunately :-( this doesn't seem to work from my mobile nor from my parents' home BT line.   Does anyone see why this is?  I know the 0870 number must divert to this number but maybe it is blocked somehow ??? :-/

I'm almost there, don't give up now!

wrote on Apr 18^th, 2005 at 9:46pm:

I found the geographical number for dialling Swansea University Accommodation Rooms: 01792 55**** (the last four digits of the extn number) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  (now you all must worship me 8)) Unfortunately :-( this doesn't seem to work from my mobile nor from my parents' home BT line.   Does anyone see why this is?  I know the 0870 number must divert to this number but maybe it is blocked somehow ??? :-/ I'm almost there, don't give up now!

How did you find out that 55**** is the correct number? It doesn't work for me on Vodafone or BT.

Edit: It doesn't work using NTL's prepaid system either (the number is unavailable)

wrote on Apr 18^th, 2005 at 9:46pm:

I found the geographical number for dialling Swansea University Accommodation Rooms: 01792 55**** (the last four digits of the extn number) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  (now you all must worship me 8))

Dito mmmmmm's post. How do you know that this is the correct number?

It is the number listed in an old numbering catalogue in the residences managers office.  I asked if I could know the 01792 number and they were quite helpful, but they did say that the geog numbers didn't work anymore.

It (the catalogue) has the geographical numbers and the respective 0870 numbers listed alongside and the 01792 55**** is generic to all student extensions.

If it isn't the right number, does this mean there isn't a way to call through because ntl have blocked it somehow, or that they have moved to different geographical numbers?

If they've changed to 0870 from geographical numbers, they almost certainly do stop the old numbers from working. Otherwise people would continue to use them (even if just out of habit, rather than to circumvent the 0870 numbers).

There may not be a geographical number if it's some sort of voice over IP system. If there is, it might be a "national dialling" number - i.e. one beginning with 0 or 1 - that can't be dialled from BT lines or some other services (but in my experience can be dialled from NTL lines).

Ah.   :-/

So I guess there isn't much chance of finding this number before I leave University Residence in 6 weeks time :'(

If there is, does anyone know how?

I have set up a VOIP system for my son at Oxford Brookes.  He has a Sipgate geographic number for incoming calls and can use 1899 VOIP for outgoing calls (both using K-lite virtual handset).

The only problem now is that when my son makes a call using 1899 VOIP, caller ID on the recipient’s phone shows my home phone number.  Can I get it to show my son’s Oxford number or, if that it not possible, can my number be withheld?

More general discussion about the Swansea University accomodation phone system is in this thread. It also includes responses from the university.

wrote on May 2^nd, 2005 at 11:50am:

The only problem now is that when my son makes a call using 1899 VOIP, caller ID on the recipient’s phone shows my home phone number.  Can I get it to show my son’s Oxford number or, if that it not possible, can my number be withheld?

Can't he make his outgoing calls using www.voipbuster.com instead?  That comes up as number withheld.

All geographic uk calls and calls to the USA with Voipbuster are totally free and he can have his own account that is nothing to do with you and which he will need to add credit to if he wants to call mobiles or 087/4x numbers which are not free.

Thanks for your help.  I will look into that. :)

As it's an NTL system, try dialling 173 and see if it gives a number, as suggested here on the Cambridge University thread.

See also the FOI request/response thread here.

You dial 1280 to revert to BT for 0870 and 0845 calls or any other calls for that matter on Onetel CPS if you want to.

However www.dialaround.co.uk are cheaper than BT for both 0870 numbers (5p per minute) and 0845 (2p per minute) although you do pay for time before you are connected and minimum call charge if not connected.

18185 only charge 4p per minute to 0870 after 4p initial connection.