Following my exposure of a subsidiary of a very well known charity who uses 0870. (And denies any profit therefrom.)

Here is another one. I have received the following e-mail from another company that quotes the Reg. No. of the charity - in the business of collecting unwanted clothes from the public. This charity is in most High Streets.

[email]Thank you for your email of 15 April 2005 regarding our 0870 number that
is printed on our van packs.

I can confirm that we have checked with our call handling company, who
set up the 0870 number for us, and I have listed below their reply.

BT charges are 8.1 peak rate (8 am to 6 pm) for an 0870 number and this
includes VAT (6.9 p + 17.5%).
A national call (eg London to Glasgow) would normally cost 6.39 p + VAT
which = 7.5 p.  There is a slight difference in using a non geographic
number (i.e. 0870 number ) but it's certainly not double!
If callers are calling from a mobile the charges may well be more,
depending on their mobile company).

I trust that this information will be of help to you.  Thank you for
taking the time to contact us.

Yours sincerely
 
[/email]

I'm beginning to think that our American friend is right!

juby

Juby, why don't you want to expose these people, and tell us exactly who they are? If we knew who they were, we could all write to them and point out the fallacy of their arguments.

They probably have absolutely no idea at all that their "call handling company" (I can think of a better phrase, but it might be unprintable!  ;D  ) is screwing both them and their customers - and laughing all the way to the bank whilst doing it.

Sometimes, when I read a pathetic reply like that you were sent, I just shake my head in disbelief. What sort of cretins do they think we all are?  ???

And - probably more to the point, what sort of ethics does the "call handling company" have stealing - yes, STEALING - the additional NGN revenue from a charity since there is no mention of the charity getting any revenue from the calls (and I'd lay London to a brick they don't!)

Why does everyone step-around the issue of actually naming these charities/companies? >:(

Why even bother writing on here if you aren't going to give basic details? ??? What can we do without knowing who you're talking about? :-/

wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2005 at 10:06am:

Why does everyone step-around the issue of actually naming these charities? >:(

The reason is that the charities themselves are not making any money out of it, they are allowing companies to use their name and Reg No for the scam.
They run very profitable businesses out of which a  proportion of that profit is given to the charity.
I believe that the charity must be given a chance to defend itself before revealing who they are.

In the meantime when I find out who the "Call handling Company"  (The real culprit)  is you will be the first to know!

And Smasher, Have you never had anything of the kind pushed through your letterbox? My only source.

juby

wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2005 at 11:40pm:

And - probably more to the point, what sort of ethics does the "call handling company" have stealing - yes, STEALING - the additional NGN revenue from a charity since there is no mention of the charity getting any revenue from the calls (and I'd lay London to a brick they don't!)

Precisely.

juby

wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2005 at 11:28am:

The reason is that the charities themselves are not making any money out of it, they are allowing companies to use their name and Reg No for the scam.

Well in my opinion, if the charities are so apparently thick and ignorant as to allow this to happen and not realise the call costs, it's their own fault.

In fact, it depends whether it really is a charity or simply masquerades as one for the ends of a few selfish people... I won't say any more about this for now.  You'll see what I mean on a certain TV documentary soon.

My reply to the above:
[email]Dear Mrs
Thank you for replying to my e-mail.

Who is your call handling company? They have given you totally incorrect information!

"BT charges 8.1 pence per minute  for a peak rate call"  Incorrect, it is 7.51 pence per minute.

"A national call (eg. London to Glasgow) costs 7.5 pence per minute!

From any almost all (99.9%) of domestic telephones, it costs 3 pence or less, depending on their server, including VAT at peak times.

You have been misinformed, if you look in your BT phone book these charges are detailed. It also states that 0870 is a premium number.

Somebody out there is taking a cut of around 2 -3 pence per minute paid to them by the telecom company.

I will bet a pound to penny it is not the charity.

Yours sincerely,

[/email]

juby

wrote on Apr 24^th, 2005 at 12:39pm:

My reply to the above:

What reply to what above?? ???

Good Evening Smasher,

If you look at the first contribution to this thread (which I started) you will see that I included an e-mail I had received from a charity.

I replied to that e-mail and posted it for your benefit and others, if I do not receive a satisfactory reply within a few days I will reveal the name of the charity.

That is what my reply to the above means.

Sorry I did not make that clear, what did you think it meant?

::)

juby

Oh right I see now. :-[

Sorry juby nothing personal, but I'm up to my neck in processing and interpreting lab test results and after hours of comparing figures and making diagnoses, it's pretty hard to do things properly, like read chat forums for example :-[

wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2005 at 11:24pm:

Following my exposure of a subsidiary of a very well known charity who uses 0870. (And denies any profit therefrom.) Here is another one. I have received the following e-mail from another company that quotes the Reg. No. of the charity - in the business of collecting unwanted clothes from the public. This charity is in most High Streets. [email]Thank you for your email of 15 April 2005 regarding our 0870 number that is printed on our van packs. I can confirm that we have checked with our call handling company, who set up the 0870 number for us, and I have listed below their reply. BT charges are 8.1 peak rate (8 am to 6 pm) for an 0870 number and this includes VAT (6.9 p + 17.5%). A national call (eg London to Glasgow) would normally cost 6.39 p + VAT which = 7.5 p.  There is a slight difference in using a non geographic number (i.e. 0870 number ) but it's certainly not double! If callers are calling from a mobile the charges may well be more, depending on their mobile company). I trust that this information will be of help to you.  Thank you for taking the time to contact us. Yours sincerely[/email] I'm beginning to think that our American friend is right! juby

I received EXACTLY the same reply from the British Heart Foundation.

I replied:
Quote:

Dear Mrs J Kingston Thank you for taking the trouble to reply. I regret, however, that I find the content of your reply very sad for three reasons. 1. The information given to you by your 'call handling company' contains a number of blatant lies (I will explain below, please continue reading). 2. Nobody within your organisation realised that you were being duped. 3. Your 'call handling company' are making so much profit at your expense (clearly, without you realising it) instead of your worthy charity making same. On 1/7/2004, BT forced 99% of its domestic customers (your charity's potential contributors) to migrate from what had been called their Standard Rate to BT Together Option 1.   That migration changed the cost of renting a BT line but, more importantly from this discussion’s point of view, dramatically changed the price paid by domestic customers for their UK calls.  In particular, it eliminated any differentiation between the cost of 'local' and 'national' calls (i.e. calls to UK geographical numbers - those commencing 01 and 02) and that resulted in a call from Cardiff to Glasgow now costs the same as a call from Cardiff to Cardiff. On the former (Standard Rate) tariff, charges were: Line rental £9.50 per month Daytime calls 7.91p per minute (national) 3.95p per minute (local) Weekday evening calls 3.9p per minute (national) 1p per minute (local) Weekend calls 1.5p per minute (national) 1p per minute (local) Since 1/7/2004, the new BT Together Option 1 tariff has been: Line rental £10.50 per month Daytime 3p per minute, 5p minimum call charges apply Evenings and weekends 5.5p for up to an hour per call, 1p per minute thereafter As is obvious from the above, your 'call handling company's' statement "A national call (eg London to Glasgow) would normally cost 6.39 p + VAT which = 7.5 p.  There is a slight difference in using a non-geographic number (i.e. 0870 number ) but it's certainly not double!" apart from conveniently omitting the crucial words 'per minute' after each price, used the OLD (Standard Rate) tariff.  Using the new (BT Together Option 1) tariff, a national call (eg London to Glasgow) now normally costs 3p per minute including VAT. The cost of calling an 0870 number during the day is now 7.51p per minute including VAT. Hence, the statement that dialling an 0870 number from a residential landline costs more than double what it costs to dial an 01 or 02 number is totally accurate (in fact, 7.51p per minute as opposed to 3p per minute means the call costs more than 2½ times as much). I hope I have been able to explain how you are being duped by your 'call handling company' and that you will now be able to reconsider your use of a rip-off disguised premium rate number. Kindest regards.

Well said Bill
KK

Good email bill!  :)

Hi Bill and Juby
You could send them the link placed in the post:  "Advertising Standards Authority"
kk

It is a good email because it states the facts without putting the blame on the reader. I think that it is important to get the reader on your side (even if they are to blame).

It is a good email, but did it receive a reply? Mine did not either so I will reveal the charity, guess what it is the British Heart Foundation!

I'm am always nervous of revealing the names of charities, bill, I believe you should give them a chance to correct matters first.

So let us start by revealing the names of some Charities who have denied the fact that they or anybody else makes any money out of 0870.

I'll start it off with the Great Ormond Street Hospital, they refused to say who was making any money
out of the number. You can send your comments to Mrs Christine Monk at:
monkc@gosh.nhs.uk

All this information is available at: http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/registeredcharities/showcharity.asp?regno=235825

As is a lot of info about charities incuding their A/cs, some of those make very disturbing reading.

juby

Email sent to Daily Telegraph's David Derbyshire today:
[email]Dear Mr Derbyshire,

You suggested in your recent article that charities were justified in using the 0870 prefix, "as they needed the income".

I have so far been unable to find any charity who are making any income from using the number!

They have all been conned by a telecom company that has offered them a free switchboard in return for creaming off the 2 - 3 pence a minute commission that these calls generate.

[/email]

Just like the doctors!

juby