I have NTL freedom, which gives me NTL Internet (when they feel like it!!) over a BT line.

Today I dialed up as usual, and it wouldn't connect, however I heard voices on the phone, so I listened in and the announement said "Soory, the number you called could not be recognised, please check and call again"

This was the usual NTL dial up number, and the fact that it's not been recognised, is a failure on NTLs part, and they should fix it, if I were to report it.

However, thanks to this site, I called their freephone number, instead of 0870, and was given another freephone number to check the status.  As far as NTL are concerned, everything is running fine.

I then went to speak to customer services, and told them of the problem, and they said that I should call their 090 number!!!   I protested strongly, and said that the problem is a fault on your end, and I should not have to pay to report this problem.  She then said that instead I could call a free number, so I said, "Thankyou"

She began to read out the number, and gues what, 0870!!

I then protested, and said that I should not have to call an 0870 number, to report a fault in their equipment, and pointed out that it's a premium rate number.  Her response was that unlike other ISPs, who charge £1.50 for technical support, they were only charging 0870 rates.

I then argued that I was not after technical support, I was reporting a fault in their service, and said asked if I could have a geographical number instead.  She said that the only way would be to call their 0870 number!!  I then started to complain even more and said that I shold not be phoning premium rate numbers to report a fault with their systems.  During that, they hung up on me!!!

This is totally disgusting.  I am not after technical support.  I am reporting a fault with their service, which in theory they should pay me to do, not the other way around!!

Of all the companies that I have dealt with, that rip us off with NGN phone numbers, this is by far the worse abuse I have had yet.  The only reason why I am here to tell the tale now, is because my Dad on the downstairs computer, uses Virgin.

And of course, I could cancel my service with immediate effect, and not pay my next months service, but after last time, when they messed up my payments, they just get Wescot to deal with the matter, even though I had paid!!  Imagine the trouble this time, if I were to refuse to pay!!

NTL are notorious for customer service - September's Which Magazine rates them as the worst and has a specific 'don't buy' rating for them.  Most people with NTL have a story to tell which is just as well because we've just shunned their £9.99 a month broadband without set up fees in favour of plusnet with a £58.75 set up and £14.99 per month (we only need it for 9 months), but at least no stupid usage limits!  We haven't actually got Plusnet yet so if any horror stories about them or if you know of a cheaper provider then please let me know ;D

Well, just seen their service status now, and they now acknowledge that their 0808 dialup number isn't working, which was bought to their attention at 11am today!!

If I had been allowed to report it to customer services yesterday, then they would have found out yesterday instead.

I have managed to get back on with an 0800 number from them, but for some reason, I cannot enter secure sites, meaning I can't log into MSN, can't check my e-mails, can't sign on to ebay (but I can browse), can't do my internet banking, and can't do any internet shopping.

Just hope, now they know about the problem, it will be sorted out soon!!

Their service status now shows as resolved!!  At just after 1400 hours today, they consider it back to normal.

Well, I'm still using the 0800 number, that doesn't allow access to secure sites, because their 0808 number is still not working (as of 1515 hours)

But who is going to call their premium rate number, to put them right!!

Also, they still haven't replied to my e-mail of 2 days ago, when I pointed out the problem to them.  No reply certainly gives an incentive to call their premium rate number to give an update.

I will instead be calling their customer services, to cancel my account, I've had enough of them!!

I'm with Telewest and they're being taken over by NTL soon.  God help us all.

Received an e-mail back from NTL, saying that the 0800 number is for use if you have an NTL cable line, rather than a BT line.

Although the service can still be used, on a BT line, the problems that happened to me, are quite common.

They then said that they had trouble with their 0808 number, which they are hoping to fix shortly.

Well, I've been waiting since 2pm on Wednesday, and they still haven't sorted it out!!

Their status page, is again updated, to say that the problem is still ongoing, so at least they do acknowledge it's not sorted out!!

wrote on Oct 6^th, 2005 at 3:15pm:

We haven't actually got Plusnet yet so if any horror stories about them or if you know of a cheaper provider then please let me know ;D

As an ex Plusnet customer I cannot recommend Plusnet at all, especially for broadband.  They are always engaging in new scams to offer cheap headline  broadband prices while offering a shoddy service.  Their latest ruse on their cheaper broadband products is to disconnect people for inactivity after a certain number of minutes and force you to reconnect.  In other words back to a dial up modem situation at faster speeds!

I would recommend my non agressively marketed but ultra reliable broadband ISP - Freedom2Surf.  www.f2s.com

I have had personal dealings by email with Lee Srafford the MD of Plusnet that show him to be a very rude and abrasive individual who hides from difficult questions.  In other words almost as bad as the management of Easyjet.  Also the customer support staff of Plusnet were always universally rude and abrupt in my experience.

For the best broadband deals check out:-

http://www.adslguide.org.uk/isps/summarylist.asp

Although beware that the prices quoted when ranking 512k, 1MB or 2MB services do not include VAT.

I think F2s's wires only connection price with no lock in or 12 month contract is 40 quid.

But they have a usage limit of only 2GB per month! :(  I think we're going for Plusnet unless anyone else can suggest a broadband ISP with no limits, a montly contract, and a fee of £14.99 or less with a £58.75 activation fee.

I've PM'd you about this otherwise we'll end up being told off by the mods for going off topic again :-[ :P :D ;D

Well, on Saturday, it was all sorted out, however they're back to their old tricks again.  It went fine at 8am this morning, but at 10am, got the message again "Sorry this number has not been recognised"

I will be phoning up customer services tomorrow, and cancelling my account.  This is beyond a joke.  In total 4 days of no internet use.  Only been able to use the internet, because my Dad has a computer downstairs on Virgin.

Problem still not sorted out.  Called the customer services on their freephone number, and was greeted with a recorded announement "Due to very high call volumes, you might want to ring back later, or at the weekend when we're less busy, press 1, if you still want to talk to someone"  And if you think that's poor customer service, then the best bit is yet to come!!

I did get through to someone in about 5 minutes.  I explained the problem, and was told that BT sorted out the problem the other day, this is an independant issue, and I have to phone technical support.  I explained that this is the attitude I got last week, and I'm not here for technical support, I'm reporting a fault.  She insisted the problem is sorted out, and I have to phone technical support.

I told her that I'm paying for a service that isn't being provided, and she just said in a very rude manner "Well, there's no refunds, because it's BTs fault"  I said that I will be cancelling my account straight away, and she said in a strop "Fine, I'll pass you to disconnections"

This is rudeness in the extreme.  I wish I had a tape recorder, as I would only be too happy to inform the local radio station in the area where the managing director lives, and make sure he listens in!!

Anyway, disconnections were slightly more helpful.  She said that she would contact technical support, and they would investigate and give me a ring back later on, and if they find that they are at fault, I would be given a refund.  I also told her of the attitude of the previous person I spoke to, and she apologised and said that I am entitled to a refund.

Well, the tale goes on, and thanks again to my Dad for letting me use his internet connection whilst mine is out of use!!

wrote on Oct 11^th, 2005 at 9:57am:

This is rudeness in the extreme.  I wish I had a tape recorder, as I would only be too happy to inform the local radio station in the area where the managing director lives, and make sure he listens in!

This is the modern world of British customer service where the sulky bored and incompetent humanoid employed by the company is always right and you the customer are always wrong.

Its worse on somewhere like Easyjet or Ryanair where if you dare challenge them over any part of their appalling customer policies at checkin they threaten to exclude you from the flight and if you dare challenge any part of their inflight policies (for instance why the passenger in front is allowed to recline his seat fully on to me when this doesn't leave room to open the meal tray in my seat properly) they accuse you of being difficult and suggest they might have to physically restrain you for the hostility shown merely in your voice towards them.

This is the modern world of British customer service where the staff come first and customers come last.

wrote on Oct 8^th, 2005 at 4:32pm:

But they have a usage limit of only 2GB per month! :(  I think we're going for Plusnet unless anyone else can suggest a broadband ISP with no limits, a montly contract, and a fee of £14.99 or less with a £58.75 activation fee. I've PM'd you about this otherwise we'll end up being told off by the mods for going off topic again :-[ :P :D ;D

I went for Euro1net. They do 512kbps with unlimited downloads for £240 for two years with no setup fees. At present they have a special offer to upgrade you to 1MB for the same charge.  (And if you quote code 175536, I get an extra month free for the introduction!)

wrote on Oct 11^th, 2005 at 11:22pm:

I went for Euro1net. They do 512kbps with unlimited downloads for £240 for two years with no setup fees.

Doesn't this assume that Euro1net will stay in business for the next 2 years and/or that any successor companies that take them over will honour your up front two year payment?

Me thinks that by giving such a small company your money up front you are taking quite a big risk.

Well, after my experience with NTL, I'm not committing to anyone for 2 years!!  Imagine if NTL freedom e-mailed me last month, and wanted this committment.

Well, still got no internet.  Been like this since Monday morning.  Technical support never phoned back as promised.

Called up again today to complain at 11am, and after waiting in the call queue for half an hour (thankfully on freephone), and the guy on the phone was more polite, and apologised about not being able to put me through to technical support.  I then went through to disconnections, and the guy there was helpful as well.  He actually spoke to technical support, who were going to phone me back straight away.

So, I thanked him for his help, and waited for the phone to ring, and waited, and waited, and I'm still waiting now.  Even though he spoke to technical support who promised a call back, yet again they didn't bother.

UK Online (http://www.ukonline.net) looks good value at 9.99 for 1Mb, with no download limit. Payment is monthly but minimum term of 12 months.

Does anyone have any experience of this company?

wrote on Oct 13^th, 2005 at 6:53pm:

UK Online (http://www.ukonline.net) looks good value at 9.99 for 1Mb, with no download limit. Payment is monthly but minimum term of 12 months. Does anyone have any experience of this company?

Its only available at this price if you live on one of the very limited number of unbundled BT exchanges where they offer this service.

Have you tried entering your phone number into their availability checker yet?

Decided to e-mail NTL to make a complaint about their service, detailing all the info that has been discussed in this forum, the rudeness of their staff, them expecting me to call a premium rate number.  I decided to wait a couple of weeks, to make sure the service is back to normal, and sent an e-mail last night.  Got a swift reply back this morning.




Dear Sir

Thankyou for your recent email.

I can only apologise for the problems that you have experienced. The fault that was logged was in fact a problem on the BT network. They were not fully aware of this and neither were ourselves until BT actually reported it to us. In regards to this issue they gave us no time frame in which they would solve the problem but just continued to update us, information which we then placed onto the website and via recorded messages.

All of our customer service agents are not technical trained and therefore when a technical issue does arise they have to inform the customer to contact our technical support department, this also applies to any fault reporting as well. Once again i can only apologise for the way that the agent may have spoken to you.

In regards to any call backs, we have a system in place which means that if there are calls waiting we have to respond to them first. Now due to the call volume at the time we were unable to make any call backs at anytime.

The issues that you have given us in your email will be looked into and dealt with. Any formal complaint that you wish to lodge woudl actually need to be placed in a letter and our customer liaison team will look into that and contact you either in letter format or telephone.

Kind Regards,

Stephen

ntl: Freedom Support Team




So it would appear it's NTL's policy of making customer call a premium rate number to report a fault, and it seems strange that it's BT who told them of the problem.  I actually told them of the problem 1 day earlier, yet they didn't believe me!!

Their customer services can't be that well trained, if they can't lodge a simple complaint about a fault with the service.  Even if it's not them dealing with it, if they get loads of phone calls reporting not being able to connect, then it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that there is a problem.  NTL should be contacting BT, not the other way around.  How would NTL know about this problem if BT hadn't told them.  They would have just denied having a problem as nobody is allowed to report it without paying for the privilege.

Before writing this, I e-mailed back and asked for the address to write to, to make an official complaint, and got a swift reply back.




Dear Customer

Thankyou for your recent email

The address you iwll need is

Customer liaison team
Ntl Freedom
Ntl House
Bartley Wood Bsuiness Park
Hook
Hampshire
RG27 9XA

If you add in the cover letter FAO Managing director they will then be able to pass it onto the relevant department

Kind Regards,

Steve


Anyone on this board know of any e-mail address for the board of directors, as I feel that saying FAO managing director might not reach his office, but putting his name might.

As you feel so strongly on this I suggest you reach deadlock with NTL and then take your complaint to www.otelo.org.uk for resolution.

I would demand compensation from NTL and see if they coughup.  I suggested £50 with Vodafone after being cut off after waiting on hold for their customer services for an hour twice and they then offered £60.  Suggest to NTL they compensate you with £50 as they admit they are fault.  If they won't pay up take the complaint to Otelo.  You are more than entitled to £50 for the value of your wasted time and effort.  Only if a company like NTL actually has to pay out money will their management sit up and take notice.

Just received this joke of an e-mail.  I had copied the e-mail to both enquires, and support.  The previous e-mails were from support, this one is from enquiries.


Dear Customer.
Thank you for your email.

I'm afraid we will  not be able to give you any credit adjustment for the loss of service during that period of time, because we did have a problem with the server at the time and we did have a recording message about that on our line. he service your on also is free dial up service. I am sorry about the incovience made in that period of time.

Kind Regards,

royhema

ntl: Freedom Support Team




The recorded message, was just "Sorry the number you have called has not been recognised"

So, I'm on free dial up!!  Why should that make a difference, I pay a monthly fee for a service that wasn't provided!!  Does that mean that if I was on broadband then I might be treated differently as a customer!!

And no mention about the rudeness of their staff!!

Definitely worth taking the matter with otelo then!!

I suggest you email simon.duffy@ntl.com, who is their Chief Executive Officer, with cc to neil.berkett@ntl.com their Chief Operating Officer and cc to david.thatcher@ntl.com their Managing Director of Consumer Sales and Marketing.

Ask for £100 compensation for all the aggravation and rudeness and unhelpfulness of their customer service staff + attach the offending emails.

See http://www.ntl.com/mediacentre/whoswho/

Thankyou NGM for your help on this matter, and I'll certainly be e-mailing the top brass at NTL!!

I e-mailed customer services earlier with this:



Hello

Thankyou for your correspondance

Please can you justify why I cannot receive a rebate for your lack of
service.

Also, you did not address the problem of your customer service agent who
behaved in an appaling manner.

Can you read my e-mail again, and come up with a more satisfactory solution.

Please note that I am also very unhappy with the refusal to refund my
account.  You failed in your duty to provide a service, and I ask again, am
I going to be refunded.  I have paid £15 for 30/31 days service, but for 6
days of that, I recieved no service.  Taking payment for the days which a
service is not provided is in breach of the sale of goods act 1982.

You do not appreciate the gravity of the situation, and a blatant refusal to
credit is unacceptable.

I would also like to remind you, that there are other internet service
providers in the market, and as a customer I am free to choose my provider,
based on quality of service provided, and customer service received.

I would also like to point out that if I do not get a satisfactory result, I
am taking the matter to otelo for resolution.

I have suffered a great deal of inconvenience, and wasted time calling your
call centre, and attempting to access the internet.

I await your reply, and hope you come to a different conclusion this time,

Regards

(my name)



And got this reply back.




Dear Customer.
Thank you for your email.

But I'm afraid to say you will not be getting a refund fro 6 days loss of service. The package you taken is a FREE dial £15 you pay us for is for call (which is call credit). I do apologise for the inconvenient at the time. I do apologise again but we will not be able to give you a refund on this case. NTL do not give refund for any BT fault. the 6 days outage on dial up, the server was down at BT end. If you have any more questions please don't hesitate to call me on 0870 445 0445 ext 2614 or email me back

Kind Regards,

royhema



So, they are dodging the issue by saying that I'm paying £15 for call credit, and they're providing me with free internet, and what they failed to provide, is something that I'm getting free, but as I'm getting what I'm paying for (the calls) then I'm not entitled to a refund.

Well, I pay through the nose for £15 worth of calls that I do not need to use fully, and which I would not use at all, if I didn't have free internet with it.  Who in their right mind would pay NTL £15 for the privilege of £15 worth of calls, where you pay more if you use more, and still £15 if you don't?

The only thing that makes the deal attractive, is the "free internet" that I'm getting.

I shall be contacting the directors, and copying all e-mails that I've received.  Lets hope that they see things differently.

On top of that, no mention at all about the rudeness of their staff!!

Customer Services in most large faceless multinational companies only employ unthinking and uncaring numb skulls programmed to patronise and fob off their customers.  If one complains to the top brass it may actually get things changed and/or get you some compensation.

Complaining to the CEO of Vodafone got me £60 of pre-pay call credit as compensation!

Looking for About Us and then Corporate Citizinship or Shareholder Information on most websites usually eventually leads you to a list of the directors of the company.  Site Map also often comes in handy in this regard!

I have just been to the link you provided, and yes it does indeed list the board of directors.  I cannot find their e-mail addresses though.  Did you find out from another source, or by the common logic of firstname.surname@ntlworld.com

If so, it could be surname.firstname@ntlworld.com.

Anyway, I shall certainly be taking this to the CEO, just hope he's not on at the start of his 3 week golfing holiday!!

By common logic of firstname.surname usually applying.  Failing which it is usually asurname, surnamea, firstnamel, firstnamelastname or firstname.  You can also ask for a Read Receipt and emails normally bounce if the email addresses don't exist.

Or you could call their press release contact Judith Edmiston on 028 9020 6379 / 07909 906 979 to confirm if these are correct.

See http://www.ntl.com/mediacentre/press/display.asp?id=803

Yesterday, I called Judith for clarification, and she was most helpful.  She confirmed that the board of directors do indeed have the e-mail address of firstmame.surname@ntl.com

She also said that if I get any problems, then just give her a call back, and she will be happy to find out any information I need.  Now thats what I call helpful customer service.  Certainly gives me a bit of confidence that at board level, their attitude is different to that in customer services!!

I sent an e-mail to the 3 people you mentioned NGM, and got a reply back from one of them.



Dear Mr (name removed)



Thank you for taking the time to write to me personally.  Please accept my profound apologies for the most unsatisfactory experience you have received.  I have asked for your issues to be resolved as quickly as possible and I will personally follow this up in the next few days.


Kind Regards

Neil Berkett - COO



In my complaint I also bought up the subject that I should be entitled to £50 compensation, along with a copy of the offending e-mails, which did of course include my original complaint.  Just hope they're as forthcoming as vodafone was to NGM.

I find that writing to the directors of companies often brings better results than letters to customer services.

Where the directors of a company merely pass my email back to customer service or ignore it I generally try to take my business elsewhere as much as is humanly possible.

The About Us and Corporate Governance sections on the Site Map of a large company are often a mine of useful information, whereas Contact Us usually only points to the customer service department staff.  And in my experience Customer Services would often be much better off being retitled the Customer Contempt department.  Sadly very few of these customer service staff suffer any direct financial penalty if customer numbers decline or complaint numbers increase.  If this was the case then perhaps they might often be far more helpful and responsive.

I have today got a letter back from NTL.

However Neil only passed my complaint back to customer services, who instead of sending an e-mail, decided to write a letter instead (perhaps they think their service is so bad, I might not be able to connect to read it!!)

Basically they cannot make a refund on the grounds that the outage affected them and loads of other ISPs, and that the service is not gauranteed against such outages.

They also said that because I didn't call technical support, they could not determine whether it was a fault with my computer, my phone line, or their systems.

And no mention of the rudeness and the way I was spoken to.

However, whilst writing this, I received a call on my mobile from NTL, saying that there is this outstanding issue (they were not informed of my more recent complaint, only the fact that they have on file an unresolved issue)

They have agreed to credit my next bill with £15 which covers one months service.

Maybe not the £50 I was asking for, but I won't be cancelling my account just yet!!

Just seen that they have billed my credit card with the £15, and not given me a credit after all!!

So, a phone call to NTL, and they said they will be crediting the December bill.  Looks like I'm stuck with them a little while longer.

So the promise of crediting my next bill, wasn't exactly truthful.

At least this time Customer services answered the phone straight away.

They try every trick in the book to keep customers for that little while longer.

Looks like the earliest I can leave them is in January now, and thats assuming they credit my December bill.

if this is an extra charge, demand a chargeback.

No, it's not an extra charge, it's the payment for the monthly internet bill, which I was told would be waived as compensation for their lack of service.

Upon calling up customer services, they just said I would now get the credit to my bill next month, which I'm hoping will now happen.

As my bill date is the 12th, and they contacted me on the 10th, they obviously didn't get a chance to tell their billing department to credit my account in time, which is quite convenient to NTL, as it means another months service from them!!

But I suppose as the billing is done in arrears, I could in theory cancel at the end of this billing period, and not expect another bill from them.