Just saw this on Digital Spy site.

"The BBC has awarded the exclusive rights for over-the-counter TV licence payments to PayPoint, bringing an end to decades of TV licence-related services being provided by the Post Office.

The six year contract will begin on May 2, with over-the-counter TV licence services being withdrawn from Post Offices completely from July 31.

"This contract will provide better value for the licence payer and will enable the BBC to put more money into programmes," said Pipa Doubtfire, head of revenue management at the BBC.

The corporation says the move to PayPoint will save it over £100m over the term of the contract.

"Our network of terminals has now overtaken that of the Post Office and we believe that this size advantage will enable us to deliver an improved service to TV Licensing customers," said PayPoint CEO Dominic Taylor.

The BBC has set up a special phone number, (0870) 850-6709, which plays a recorded message explaining the changes to consumers. "

Isn't it nice how they put the 0870 in (), because of course you might not need to dial it if that's your area code ::)

ms.

The article the OP refers to is here.

Also, see this BBC News article: Post Office loses TV licence deal.

This 'service' is a recorded message. The BBC and Capita have sunk to a new low in that they don't have humans answering, but a taped recording. I'm sure that this '[covert] value-added service' will pay for itself by unsuspecting victims/customers.  ::)

Dave wrote on Apr 1^st, 2006 at 2:57pm:

This 'service' is a recorded message. The BBC and Capita have sunk to a new low in that they don't have humans answering, but a taped recording. I'm sure that this '[covert] value-added service' will pay for itself by unsuspecting victims/customers.  ::)

But New £abour appears to like Capita for some reason .................

Now what was it?

bill wrote on Apr 1^st, 2006 at 3:32pm:

Dave wrote on Apr 1st, 2006 at 2:57pm: This 'service' is a recorded message. The BBC and Capita have sunk to a new low in that they don't have humans answering, but a taped recording. I'm sure that this '[covert] value-added service' will pay for itself by unsuspecting victims/customers.  ::) But New £abour appears to like Capita for some reason ................. Now what was it?

Presumably you are alluding to this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4826704.stm

<<
Labour has published details of the almost £14m in secret loans from wealthy businessmen. The list was unveiled after it emerged that some of the lenders were later recommended for peerages.

Rod Aldridge - £1m
Executive chairman of IT support firm Capita, which has won millions of pounds worth of public contracts. He said the borrowing was at commercial rates, adding that it was a "personal decision on my part". [...]
>>

idb wrote on Apr 1^st, 2006 at 3:36pm:

Presumably you are alluding to this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4826704.stm << Labour has published details of the almost £14m in secret loans from wealthy businessmen. The list was unveiled after it emerged that some of the lenders were later recommended for peerages. Rod Aldridge - £1m Executive chairman of IT support firm Capita, which has won millions of pounds worth of public contracts. He said the borrowing was at commercial rates, adding that it was a "personal decision on my part". [...] >>

We have some of the best(!) politicians that money can buy   ;D

Least I wont have to queue in post offices listening to old people mumbling about what they did last sunday to the uninterested person on the counter.
And then theres always the constituant that always stops me as im leaving the PO.

mc661 wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2006 at 2:20am:

Least I wont have to queue in post offices listening to old people mumbling about what they did last sunday to the uninterested person on the counter. And then theres always the constituant that always stops me as im leaving the PO.

You do sound as if you are a great 'people's representative' who is supposed to care about ALL constituents (thought a rep should be able to spell this very important? word!!).  You may be old one day - but it appears you are too busy always telling us you are an 'elected person' to care about anyone, particularly those who stop you when exiting your PO - shame on them for the effrontery of actually approaching their local representative.  Yes, we do get the government we deserve!

What on earth is "pay point"? - I bet there isn't one in my village but there is a post office and nothing else.   How inconvenient.  It is interesting that when I needed to contact TV Licensing last year, I did find a geog no on this site but now it seems they make it difficult for people to pay then rip them off for making enquiries!

Barbara wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2006 at 3:05pm:

What on earth is "pay point"? ...

See the website: [url=www.paypoint.co.uk[/url]]www.paypoint.co.uk[/url]

mc661 wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2006 at 2:20am:

Least I wont have to queue in post offices ...

Well, you never had to pay in the post office - there were always other ways to pay!
But I actually chose to pay in the post office because I want to help keep our village post office open - and now they are removing yet another service from it.  :(


Barbara wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2006 at 3:05pm:

What on earth is "pay point"? - I bet there isn't one in my village but there is a post office and nothing else.   How inconvenient.

That was exactly my reaction when I heard this!
When I check for PayPoint locations in my postcode area (first part of postcode only), there are only 5 listed - none of which is near to our village, and all the ones in the nearest town are in 'suburb' locations, not in the town centre where I would go for shopping!
Whereas the good old Post Office lists 9 locations within the same postcode area, including our village post office!

Another backward step:

• at the post office, you could pay "using cash, cheque, debit card, Savings Stamps or a combination of these." (quoted from TV Licensing site); whereas
  
• at a PayPoint, you can only pay in cash: "just take your renewal form to a PayPoint outlet along with your payment in cash for your full licence fee." (also quoted from TV Licensing site)
  

So now you first have to go to a post office or bank or ATM (where you may be charged for the privilege of getting out your own money) and then take the cash to a PayPoint.

OK, so there are other ways to pay: on-line (only by plastic), by phone (0870 number! & only by plastic), by post (only by cheque), by Direct Debit (requires a bank account).  For the older and/or less privileged members of society, these other methods are not necessarily available, and the post office would remain the most convenient method.

The BBC claim that this change will save them money - as always, to the inconvenience of the consumer, and especially the older and less privileged consumers!   >:(

(Personally, I will now probably pay online (altho' it won't arise until next 31 March as I've just paid mine - at the post office!), but, as I said above, I'm concerned about those who cannot use that method.)

I want to e-mail the BBC (& TV Licensing) to complain about the change from payment at the post office - but the BBC do not supply an e-mail address on their website: they only supply web input forms.  >:(

I would much prefer to use a regular e-mail address, both so that I can retain a copy of my message and so that I can simultaneously copy it to TV Licensing.

Does anyone have the relevant BBC e-mail address for complaints, please?

trevord wrote on Apr 4^th, 2006 at 11:38am:

Does anyone have the relevant BBC e-mail address for complaints, please?

All of their e-mail addresses end @bbc.co.uk so I'd try a few of the obvious prefixes.

trevord wrote on Apr 4^th, 2006 at 10:29am:

mc661 wrote on Apr 3rd, 2006 at 2:20am: Least I wont have to queue in post offices ... Well, you never had to pay in the post office - there were always other ways to pay! But I actually chose to pay in the post office because I want to help keep our village post office open - and now they are removing yet another service from it.  :(

So this Pay Point system must be in competition with the Post Office then. But they are starting from scratch so they can take the rich pickings and leave out small communities. Another nail in the coffin for small Post Offices.  :'(

So you can't pay by debit card at these Pay Points? That's not what it says here. The Pay Point terminal can be used by the retailer as a credit/debit card machine. Wonder how much they charge them compared to other providers.

Dave wrote on Apr 4^th, 2006 at 1:21pm:

So you can't pay by debit card at these Pay Points? That's not what it says here. The Pay Point terminal can be used by the retailer as a credit/debit card machine. Wonder how much they charge them compared to other providers.

I was just going by what TV Licensing say here:

Quote:

If you're renewing your licence, just take your renewal form to a PayPoint outlet along with your payment in cash for your full licence fee.  [my emphasis]

as compared with what they say here:

Quote:

You can pay for your TV Licence at a Post Office™ branch using cash, cheque, debit card, Savings Stamps or a combination of these.  [my emphasis]

I note that the PayPoint site given by Dave says:

Quote:

PayPoint retailers can accept all of the most popular credit and debit cards through their PayPoint terminal for shop goods purchases.  [my emphasis]

This implies that they may not accept them directly for other transactions.  Maybe you have to use your debit card at the PayPoint to get cash - for which there will no doubt be a commission charge - and then use the cash to pay for the TV Licence?

trevord wrote on Apr 4^th, 2006 at 2:09pm:

I note that the PayPoint site given by Dave says: Quote: PayPoint retailers can accept all of the most popular credit and debit cards through their PayPoint terminal for shop goods purchases.  [my emphasis] This implies that they may not accept them directly for other transactions.  Maybe you have to use your debit card at the PayPoint to get cash - for which there will no doubt be a commission charge - and then use the cash to pay for the TV Licence?

I think that the technology's there for debit cards. Maybe Pay Point will bring in a service 'improvement' at a later date to allow electronic payment; obviously with an associated 'convenience' charge attached.

Dave wrote on Apr 4^th, 2006 at 2:15pm:

I think that the technology's there for debit cards. Maybe Pay Point will bring in a service 'improvement' at a later date to allow electronic payment; obviously with an associated 'convenience' charge attached.

I'm sure the technology is there!   8-)

This reminds me of when I purchased some foreign currency at the post office.
If I paid for the foreign currency by debit card, they would treat it as a foreign purchase on the debit card and charge a percentage commission (for the transaction - not for the currency).
But if I used my debit card to withdraw the requisite amount of cash (which I can do free of charge because smile bank has an arrangement with the post office), and then used that cash to purchase the foreign currency, there would be no charge!   ::) ::)

trevord wrote on Apr 4^th, 2006 at 2:34pm:

If I paid for the foreign currency by debit card, they would treat it as a foreign purchase on the debit card and charge a percentage commission (for the transaction - not for the currency). But if I used my debit card to withdraw the requisite amount of cash (which I can do free of charge because smile bank has an arrangement with the post office), and then used that cash to purchase the foreign currency, there would be no charge!   ::) ::)

But not, I think, with the Nationwide debit card.

This is all most strange, particularly as our local council is apparently planning to go "cashless" and direct everyone to the post office to pay bill etc!!!   Checked our nearest pay point and the only one in our nearest town (still over 5 miles away) is at the only convenience store located in the middle of a nightmare, traffic light controlled busy crossroads where for anyone to park causes mayhem but a good mile from the town centre and some distance from any sensible (ie not obstructive) parking - very convenient!  All the others are considerably farther away, some 13 - 20 miles distant!   What a strange world (or do I mean country?!)

Tanllan wrote on Apr 4^th, 2006 at 2:55pm:

But not, I think, with the Nationwide debit card.

It depends which banks have arrangements with the post office.

But - to return to the original subject - my understanding is that you can currently pay for a TV Licence with ANY debit card at the post office, but it appears that you may not be able to with their 'new, improved' service at PayPoints.   :'(

Interesting, one of the options which comes up when I enter my postcode is:

Marks Tey Post Office & Stores
Marks Tey Delivery Office
91 London Road Marks Tey
Colchester
Essex
CO6 1DT
     
Opening Times
05:30 - 20:00 Mon - Fri
05:30 - 20:00 Sat
07:00 - 19:00 Sun
     
Distance 4.8 miles from your postcode

But, unfortunately, not the village Post Office 60 yards from my house.

trevord wrote on Apr 4^th, 2006 at 3:10pm:

... my understanding is that you can currently pay for a TV Licence with ANY debit card at the post office, but it appears that you may not be able to with their 'new, improved' service at PayPoints.   :'(

This will probably 'save' the TV Licensing some money. Of course, it leaves the door open for Pay Point to charge per transaction for the 'convenience' of paying by card. Another 0870 type rip-off is born!  :'(

trevord wrote on Apr 4^th, 2006 at 10:29am:

mc661 wrote on Apr 3rd, 2006 at 2:20am: Least I wont have to queue in post offices ... Well, you never had to pay in the post office - there were always other ways to pay! But I actually chose to pay in the post office because I want to help keep our village post office open - and now they are removing yet another service from it.  :(

Oh great what have I started. Its the Main PO im talking about i.e. the crown post office. These are run directly by Royal Mail. I always support my local sub post offices which are not crown post offices.


omy wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2006 at 1:15pm:

You do sound as if you are a great 'people's representative' who is supposed to care about ALL constituents (thought a rep should be able to spell this very important? word!!).  You may be old one day - but it appears you are too busy always telling us you are an 'elected person' to care about anyone, particularly those who stop you when exiting your PO - shame on them for the effrontery of actually approaching their local representative.  Yes, we do get the government we deserve!

I only care about my ward members, after all 'most' of them voted me in again for some strange reason (they must like me and my work).
Oh great so now your picking me up on my typos? Great, yet another reason to make me stay on this site isnt it!  >:(
Heck I bet you didnt even vote.

You may make all the bets you wish about whether I exercise my franchise or not, mc661, just give us a break from constantly mentioningyour own 'good works' as a ward councillor - then making comments that show your contempt for the elderly and people who show such poor judgement in wishing to engage you in conversation, outside.  Can't have it all ways - but no, as a politician perhaps you can.  I do!!. ;)

Think I am posting this in the corrct thread for TV Licensing.   It seems that many of the residents of my small (approx 550 people) village are furious as they have suddenly realised they will no longer be able to buy/renew tv licences at our village post office, the only facility we have (well, the change has hardly been well-publicised - I wonder why?)   Apart from removing a considerable volume of business from our hard-pressed post office, the ONLY Paypoint outlet is in our nearest town (population approx 15,000) 5 -6 miles away which is also the catchment town for a large rural area with many small villages.   The Paypoint outlet is nowhere near the town centre but on a busy, traffic light controlled junction with no parking anywhere nearby and could not hope to cope with the volume of customers if everyone using the surrounding post offices tried to go there instead.   I know there are other ways to pay, but none of them as secure (don't trust DDs generally or my bank & TV Licensing messed up big time last time we tried to renew by telephone) or convenient.    Am I cynical to think they are trying to make it so difficult for many people that that can catch them without a licence?   I emailed a complaint and, seeing the auto reply, realise that it is CAPITA behind it all again, as usual, as all the TVL nos are NGNs (I know there are alternatives here but many village residents are elderly & without computer access)!    Isn't there a member of the forum who is of the government party who could perhaps point out the obvious - in rural areas we only have our post office and don't want to pay for NGN calls?!

Source: Oxford Mail - Letters

http://www.oxfordmail.net/news/letters/display.var.2081885.0.free_number.php

<<

Free number

How kind of Pipa Doubtfire, the head of revenue management at TV Licensing, to clarify that the BBC and not the Government transferred a contract for TV licence fee collection to PayPoint from the Post Office (Oxford Mail, February 21).

It hardly matters who was responsible for the deed. Most people are aware the Government and BBC are inextricably linked.

I am in favour of making life easier for all the captive customers of the monopoly organisation TV Licensing, so why take away, completely, the option of payment at the post office?

I do not frequent shops with PayPoint and would have to actively seek them out. However, I attend the post office regularly.

As for many others, it is nearer than any PayPoint to me. Were we consulted on this change? Of course not.

As for the £100m saving over six years, it would be more helpful and believable to give more information on the sort of programmes, plus services, we are likely to be subjected to in the future, rather than the inevitable repeats.

Ms Doubtfire quotes two telephone numbers for contact and information.

One (the rebate/revenue share number) begins 0870 and the second 0844. But why would anyone use these numbers when TV Licensing can be contacted for information and payment free on 0800 917 1490?

ALAN KERRY Cowley Road Littlemore Oxford

4:23pm Thursday 28th February 2008

>>

I thought this was going to be about the 0871 number that I have recently seen used by BBC Question Time and which is deliberately kept on screen for a very extended period without any indication that it is not a standard priced phone call.

Dave wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2008 at 1:38pm:

Source: Oxford Mail - Letters http://www.oxfordmail.net/news/letters/display.var.2081885.0.free_number.php << Free number How kind of Pipa Doubtfire, the head of revenue management at TV Licensing, to clarify that the BBC and not the Government transferred a contract for TV licence fee collection to PayPoint from the Post Office (Oxford Mail, February 21). It hardly matters who was responsible for the deed. Most people are aware the Government and BBC are inextricably linked. I am in favour of making life easier for all the captive customers of the monopoly organisation TV Licensing, so why take away, completely, the option of payment at the post office? I do not frequent shops with PayPoint and would have to actively seek them out. However, I attend the post office regularly. As for many others, it is nearer than any PayPoint to me. Were we consulted on this change? Of course not. As for the £100m saving over six years, it would be more helpful and believable to give more information on the sort of programmes, plus services, we are likely to be subjected to in the future, rather than the inevitable repeats. Ms Doubtfire quotes two telephone numbers for contact and information. One (the rebate/revenue share number) begins 0870 and the second 0844. But why would anyone use these numbers when TV Licensing can be contacted for information and payment free on 0800 917 1490? ALAN KERRY Cowley Road Littlemore Oxford 4:23pm Thursday 28th February 2008 >>

When you get your tv licence reminder, on the reminder it does actually tell you where your nearest PayPoint shop is, which I think is rather clever. Anyway once they did this I started to pay by direct debit even though there was a PP near by. So, with direct debits for the utilities, tv licenesing done differently, who needs a post office except to post a parcel, but I guess that is another topic!!

NGMsGhost wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2008 at 12:48pm:

I thought this was going to be about the 0871 number that I have recently seen used by BBC Question Time and which is deliberately kept on screen for a very extended period without any indication that it is not a standard priced phone call.

I looked at this last night, and the onscreen info is; - "0871 6269988. 10p from BT landlines. Mobiles & other networks may be higher"

It does not state 10ppm, just 10p, so is the number one of those that cost 10p for the call, or 10ppm? Although PayphonePlus (http://www.phonepayplus.org.uk/numberchecker/NcdResults.asp) states; -

PhonepayPlus has the following information about the number 08716269988.
This is a non geographic number charged at up to 10p per minute. The services operating on this number can range from advice lines, call centres, ticket booking lines, customer support lines and more.

So it does look like it costs 10ppm, therefore is this not misleading price indications ans as such would OfCoN or ASA get involved?

The BBC's Eddie Mair was at it once again on their PM program on Friday 11th April by stating, when mentioning that the programs's 0870 phone number cost 8p per minute to call, that it was "cheaper than the cost of a stamp".

I sent this email in response and also sent a variant to BBC Radio 4's Feedback program and lodged an official complaint on the BBC Complaints website.


Quote:

-------- Original Message -------- Subject:      0870 - Cheaper Than The Cost of A Stamp - Gratuitous and Inappropriate Comments Date:      Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:47:06 +0100 To:      Eddie Mair at BBC Dot Co Dot UK (real email address removed to stop Spambots) Dear Mr Mair, Claims that calling a BBC 0870 covert premium rate number is "cheaper than the cost of a Stamp" - PM - Friday 11th April 2008 - 5.53pm I wanted to complain in the strongest possible terms about the gratuitous statement you chose to make when promoting a BBC 0870 number on your show around 5.53pm tonight (Friday 11th April 2008) that it was "cheaper than the cost of a stamp". The cost of stamps is surely immaterial to the matter.  The relevant comparison is with normal priced UK phone calls on which many UK fixed line and mobile telecoms consumers now have inclusive call plans that cover all calls to numbers starting 01/02/03 for a set amount per month but these plans do not cover 084/7 calls on which the BBC, and its partners in viewer and listener telephony extortion Capita and Cable & Wireless, collectively extract a revenue share. You said, in your on air statement, that calls to 0870 numbers cost "up to 8p per minute" but this is not true as a huge volume of UK daytime calls are made on mobile phones and on a mobile phone an 0870 number is always excluded from bundled inclusive call minute packages and costs up to 40p per minute to call from within the UK.  It costs even more to call an 0870 number from overseas and they may not be contactable at all, which could well be an issue for overseas web and satellite radio listeners to your program. Please can you tell me where you got the phrase "cheaper than a stamp" from today and can you indicate if it is your own personal invention or a new BBC policy line to defend the continued use and abuse by the BBC of 084/7 numbers. The Central Office Of Information has just published the Third Edition of its Better Practice Guidance for Government Contact Centres at www.coi.gov.uk/documents/gcc-third-edition.pdf  Since the BBC is a public sector and not a commercial organisation to my mind it is therefore bound by the advice given in this guide and if you read the Cost to the Citizen section starting at paragraph 3.51 on P.35 of the Guide (P.36 of the PDF) this will surely tell you why the BBC's continued love affair with 0870 numbers (that is now even extending to 0871 numbers - eg Question Time audience participation line) is wholly inappropriate. Some months ago a Mr Michael Stock, a senior member of the management team in your Marketing, Communications & Audiences division, contacted to tell me that the BBC was contemplating a possible switch to the use of the new 03 number range introduced by Ofcom that are only charged at the price of a normal landline call (and are included in fixed line calling plans and bundled minutes on mobile phones) but since then I have heard nothing further from Mr Stock.  So can I assume that the BBC is now backtracking on its plans to get rid of 0870 in favour of normally priced 03 prefixed phone numbers or is the good news on this from the BBC only just around the corner? I look forward to your comments. Regards,

Quote:

-------- Original Message -------- Subject:      0870 - Cheaper Than The Cost of A Stamp - Gratuitous and Inappropriate Comments Date:      Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:47:06 +0100 To:      Eddie Mair at BBC Dot Co Dot UK (real email address removed to stop Spambots) Dear Mr Mair, Claims that calling a BBC 0870 covert premium rate number is "cheaper than the cost of a Stamp" - PM - Friday 11th April 2008 - 5.53pm You said, in your on air statement, that calls to 0870 numbers cost "up to 8p per minute" but this is not true as a huge volume of UK daytime calls are made on mobile phones and on a mobile phone an 0870 number is always excluded from bundled inclusive call minute packages and costs up to 40p per minute to call from within the UK.  It costs even more to call an 0870 number from overseas and they may not be contactable at all, which could well be an issue for overseas web and satellite radio listeners to your program.

And, of course, those on Sky talk will be paying 10p per minute during the day to call 0870 numbers from later this week - see HERE.

Perhaps you would also care to email Eddie Mair and file a Complaint on their complaints website to back me up then Heinz.  An email to the BBC R4 Feedback program - feedback@bbc.co.uk - making the point about Sky Talk customers would also not go amiss either. The producer Viv Black, who selects the letters, seems to be reasonably supportive of the saynoto0870 campaign.

I actually copied in a much larger part of the BBC Board and several directors of the BBC Trust as well.  I can always post the names if you are interested.  I didn't post all the email addresses on the basis of not helping the spam bots.

I now understand that a paper about the possibility of the BBC switching to all 03 numbers is going to the BBC Board for decision at their 21st April Board Meeting but I don't know what the recommendation about 03 numbers in that paper actually is.  Even then the Board could decide to go against that paper's recommendation.  I wonder if the Board meetings are open to the public and any of us could turn up to watch the proceedings?

If anyone feels like emailing all members of the BBC Board about this issue now is therefore the time.

See www.bbc.co.uk/info/running/executive/biographies.shtml

firstname.lastname@bbc.co.uk to email any of them.

One would have thought that the public would be able to attend the Board Meetings of a publicly owned body like the BBC but I cannot find any evidence this is the case on their website and using Google.  Can I take it that the BBC does not in fact allow the public to attend its Board Meetings.

How about putting a notice on the front page of this site about the BBC Board meeting regarding 0870 numbers and giving the email addresses of the Board Members and encouraging all members of the public to email them between now and next Monday 21st April?

I have just received back this load of quite unbelievable and totally unapologetic claptrap under the name of Roger Sawyer, Deputy Editor of the PM program.  I very much doubt he did more than finally send it out under his name having read it (presumably in ignorance of real phone call costs) as several of the misleading points are straight off the propaganda street long used by Capita run and staffed BBC Information to lie to the public about the BBC's 084 and 087 phone numbers.

1. He still refuses to apologise for the 0870 is "cheaper than a stamp" analogy even though I pointed out an 01/02/03 phone call would be free.  It appears they may even still carry on making such claims on PM therefore. :o >:( :'(

2. He claims the BBC doesn't make any money out of the numbers.  This is another blatant lie as they either get a big outgoing discount on their own calls from Cable & Wireless they would not get without the incoming 084/7 revenue stream and/or get cheaper line rental and switchboard equipment out of Cable & Wireless they would not get if Cable & Wireless was not earning the revenue share.  He even says they could take a rebate on the calls and don't.  In which case why don't they immediately use 03 then. ;) ::)

3. He perpetrates the old longstanding Capita/BBC Information lie that on an 0845 number they are charitably sharing part of the call cost with the caller.  But as an 01/02/03 call to the BBC would be free how can they share a part of the cost of nothing then?  If they are really paying to receive their 0845 calls their Finance Director needs to be fired for gross incompetence.

4. He perpetrates the old lie that they use 0845 purely so as to not have different call costs from different parts of the UK as this would be unfair.  This despite the fact that no major telco including BT has had local call pricing for at least 3 years now.   Also again it ignores the point that 03 is the same to everybody but free at the weekends and/or all the time for those on call packages.

This is quite unbelievable.  I am going to reply exposing his lies and copying all members of the BBC Board, BBC Trust, Eddie Mair and the producer and editor of the PM program. >:(


Quote:

-------- Original Message -------- Subject:      FW: 0870 - Cheaper Than The Cost of A Stamp - Gratuitous and Inappropriate Comments Date:      Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:10:55 +0100 From:      Roger Sawyer <roger.sawyer@bbc.co.uk> Dear Mr __________, Thank you for your email. Eddie Mair said calls "cost no more than 8p a minute from a BT line... ...cheaper than  a stamp". Calls do cost no more than 8p a minute from a BT line. Such a call - provided it does not go on for more than about three minutes - does cost less than a Second Class stamp. You mention mobile phones and the additional costs they incur. A few points. There is no rule that listeners are obliged to call us the instant they want to make a comment... they are perfectly welcome to wait until they are at home and can call us from a landline at their leisure.  We also find that people who want to contact us to comment instantly by mobile phone do so by text message.  Also, it is the mobile phone providers who charge extra for calls to certain numbers, not us. Calls, because they take the form of listener monologues rather than dialogue, are usually short and to the point and callers don't seem to mind the cost. For the vast majority of callers, it is much, much cheaper than sending a letter (which many people do) and cheaper than sending a text message (which, again, many people do). The BBC does not make any money out of 0870 numbers.  They are regulated by the BBC's own internal editorial policy team and externally by Icstis, the official regulator. A rebate is available to organisations who use 0870 numbers - but the BBC has waived its right to this in return for better telephone services for the audience. We have at PM looked at the provision of either an 0800 (free) or 0845 (cost shared between BBC and listener) number instead of the 0870 number for the PM Letter line. The issue was whether our budget was better spent on making programmes or in funding a letter line. We do not subsidise people who write in and people who send texts. Nor do we subsidise people who don't have broadband and have to use a telephone dial up to send email and therefore incur costs there . So we decided not to subsidise the letter line from our programme budget. The BBC has been looking at using 03 geographic numbers. I don't know what is beign decided on this. The reason we do not provide an 0208 number is that it is felt it could put people off who are calling from outside London.   In conclusion, Eddie mair's comments were not, in my view, gratuitous or inappropriate. They were accurate and helpful. Yours sincerely, Roger Sawyer Deputy Editor PM/Broadcasting House

Quote:

The reason we do not provide an 0208 number is that it is felt it could put people off who are calling from outside London.

So this guy is living in about 1995 then, when it would have been more expensive (or equally as expensive...?) to call the 0870 number as to call a London number? Nobody cares where the number is based! If that was the case, then presumably Watchdog would have nobody ringing in...

Clearly shows how far out of touch with the real world BBC employees are.

A standard scripted lie used by all the Capita employed staff of BBC Information.  Capita have repeatedly refused to stop using these lies despite them obviously becoming inappropriate in the light of the launch of all calls plans to 01/02/03 numbers like BT Option 3, and even more inappropriate following the launch of 03 prefixed phone numbers.

Capita are the lowest of the low when it comes to 084/7 call abuse and they have even created these various basically bare faced lies to be given out when any complaints are made.  Capita are really little more than a commercial extortion racket interested only making money and not in happy customers or a decent product.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  BBC Information is unbelievably abysmal compared to the old BBC Duty Office in London that used to take complaints until the mid to late 1990s.

I just checked with the BBC Trust whether the public can attend meetings of either the Trust or the BBC Board as observers.  Apparently they cannot even though this is common practice for the boards of other truly public sector bodies like NHS Trusts.  So regarding the upcoming decision by the BBC Board regarding 03 numbers on Monday the only solution is for as many as possible of us here to email all the BBC Board and BBC Trust's members about this issue indicating why they must vote in favour of 03 numbers on Monday.

# Offensive comments removed ~ DaveM

NGMsGhost wrote on Apr 17^th, 2008 at 5:16pm:

Capita are really little more than a commercial extortion racket interested only making money and not in happy customers or a decent product.

I can agree with the decent product malarkey - I've had some first hand experience of their "products".


Quote:

[...] the only solution is for as many as possible of us here to email all the BBC Board and BBC Trust's members about this issue indicating why they must vote in favour of 03 numbers on Monday.

Perhaps a good idea would be to provide a semi-filled template for forum members to fill in, and maybe send out an announcement to all members about it.

Its getting a bit late for that, given that the meeting to decide the 03 question by the BBC Board is on Monday.  Also I'm suggesting writing to individual email addresses of all BBC Board and Exec members.  I supect Daniel may feel it is going OTT to put this in front of those merely looking up numbers on the site.

I will post a new thread specifically on the subject of sending an email re the discussion at the BBC Board on Monday and ask moderators if they will sticky it.

We need informed and well written emails that are individual.  Even 10 or 15 so such emails around all the Board and BBC Trust members might make quite a difference.  If their mailboxes were saturated with 500 stock emails they might just feel they were being spammed and just delete the whole lot without reading them.  Unfortunately the BBC's Finance Director (who must have been one of the prime moving forces to cause the original use of 084/7) just deletes all emails that appear to come from the public without reading them but most of his colleagues on the Board seem less contemptuous of the public and one does get Read Receipts.

I got the strong original impression from Michael Stock (a top level manager wallah but not director involved with the BBC Viewer & Listener side of things including BBC Information) that the paper he would write to the BBC Board would be in favour of 03.  But then the paper was delayed due to the Ofcom 0870 delay from 1st Feb and I am concerned that the recommendation could now just be to carry on with 0870 until and unless Ofcom ever does end the revenue share on 0870.  Alternatively it could be that Mr Stock has been pressurised by Pro Capita forces in the Corporation to say recommend moving to 5p per minute at all times 0844 on the basis that it appears to look more like a local number (even though it is not) and that this is also what many other major scammers (eg DSG Retail) previously using 0870 have been doing.

It could be the paper for the Board leaves the final decision up to the Board and does not make any recommendation, although probably this is unlikely as they must look at a lot of papers for each meeting that probably go through on the nod without discussion, unless individual Board members choose to challenge the recommendation and force a discussion by other Board members.

We certainly cannot be sure the BBC is going to go with moving to 03, hence why some selective email lobbying by informed members of the forum may help.  Actually thinking about it I might send a PM to those forum members who I know are regulars and could write something effective to email to BBC Board members.

Please go to the new thread I have just started regarding a crucial meeting of the BBC Executive Board on Monday April 21st to decide whether or not to switch to geographic call rate 03 numbers for all of the BBC's normal contact telephone numbers for all its programs and all its radio and tv stations.

Your help in emailing members of the BBC Executive Board and BBC Trust to indicate your personal backing for a switch by the BBC to all 03 numbers would be very helpful in persuading the BBC to take the right decision as we do not know whether the BBC Board Members have been advised to choose the 03 option or to choose some other more undesirable alternative such as switching to all 0845 or all 0844 5p per minute phone numbers.

See my new thread on this topic at www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1208458341/0