Cahoot,as well as dropping the rate on their savings account, appear to have changed their number from 0845, to 0844 9009070, (via an e-mail sent this morning) an example of what is to come from the rest of the rip off merchants??

Received the following e-mail from Cahoot this morning, I have not put the capitals in.


Dear Mr

I'm very excited to announce that we'll be launching the new cahoot
website on May 8. We started by redesigning the homepage and product
pages, and the secure banking pages will follow in a couple of weeks.

We know you have many options when looking for a loan, savings account,
credit card or current account and we're very happy you've chosen cahoot.
We're always interested in understanding from you how we can improve our
service, so if you have any ideas please give us a call on our NEW LOCAL
rate phone number 0844 9000 900 or email us through the 'contact us'
section of your personal homepage.

Yours sincerely,


John Goddard
Managing Director

Who would you rather be in cahoots with?


Not me, I have fired off a reply telling them that the number is not local rate, I do not expect a reply.

derrick wrote on May 6^th, 2006 at 10:03am:

Received the following e-mail from Cahoot this morning, I have not put the capitals in. Dear Mr I'm very excited to announce that we'll be launching the new cahoot website on May 8. We started by redesigning the homepage and product pages, and the secure banking pages will follow in a couple of weeks. We know you have many options when looking for a loan, savings account, credit card or current account and we're very happy you've chosen cahoot. We're always interested in understanding from you how we can improve our service, so if you have any ideas please give us a call on our NEW LOCAL rate phone number 0844 9000 900 or email us through the 'contact us' section of your personal homepage. Yours sincerely, John Goddard Managing Director Who would you rather be in cahoots with? Not me, I have fired off a reply telling them that the number is not local rate, I do not expect a reply.

So have I.

Quote:

Your new 0844 contact number (0844 9000 900) is charged at 4p/minute at all times by BT. That is NOT 'local rate' as you have described it (BT's charges for calls to local numbers are 3p/minute during weekday, daytime and 5.5p for up to an hour evenings and weekends). As you should be aware, the Advertising Standards Authority have specifically stated that firms should NOT use false descriptions of call charges such as 'lo-call', 'local rate' or 'national rate' and should specify exactly what the call charges are instead.

0844 9000 900 added to the database as well so, when it's confirmed by one of the Daves, it'll be found in a search.

Received the following this afternoon in response to me email to them yesterday, I have replied to them pointing out the error of their ways and giving them some pointers in the way of some attatchments and web pages,i.e. ASA, CAP and the one from Norfolk TS.  I have also copied in Heinz's reply of yesterday.

Dear Mr

Thank you for contacting cahoot.

In response to your query regarding the new 0844 number I can confirm this is charged at the local rate of 3-4p per minute during the day and 1p per minute at the evenings and weekends. Please contact your service provider for further details on prices.

If you require any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Kind regards,
Shahnaz Begum,
cahoot

0844 900 xx      is charged by BT at 4p/min all times.

BT price list:  special numbers - page 25  -  charge band g11  -  4p   4p   4p                 (charge band G11)

Make a complaint to the Banking Code Standards Board  of  a "Deliberate misrepresentation to a customer"

Complain on the following grounds:

(1)  The bank made a false statement in describing an 0844 900 xx  telephone number as a “local rate number” when it is not and with the intention of passing the number off as a low cost inexpensive call, when in fact the cost of the call exceeds the normal local call rate.

(2) The bank made a false statement as to the cost of the call at weekends and evenings, by stating that the cost of the call was 1p/min, when in fact the cost of the call is 400% more expansive that the cost rate stated by the bank.

-------------------------

helpline@bcsb.org.uk  [bankingcode.org.uk ]

Complaint gone to BCSB.
thanks kk

I assumed his e-mail address is john.goddard@cahoot.com (well, it didn't bounce anyway)


Quote:

F.A.O. Mr John Goddard, Managing Director I am aware that, following a complaint similar to mine of 6/5/06 (copied below) regarding the false 'LOCAL rate phone number' description of the cost of calls to 0844 9000 900 contained in your 5/5/06 e-mail, your Shahnaz Begum has replied to another customer by e-mail saying:- "In response to your query regarding the new 0844 number I can confirm this is charged at the local rate of 3-4p per minute during the day and 1p per minute at the evenings and weekends. Please contact your service provider for further details on prices." That information IS FALSE. I have checked with my service provider (BT) and confirmed that the basis of my original complaint - that calls to 0844 9000 900 are charged at 4p per minute (incl. VAT) AT ALL TIMES - was correct.  If you refer to the BT Price List - http://www.downloads.bt.com/pricing/SpecialisedNos.pdf - you will see that they are charged at g11 rate. I assume you will be sending another e-mail to all customers to whom you sent your 5/5/06 e-mail correcting the original false information, specifying the actual cost (in accordance with ASA guidance) and refuting the further false information given to at least one customer by a member of your staff - particularly about the alleged 1p/minute evening and weekend cost of calling the number.

I doubt Cahoot will inform people that their 0844 is not local rate because that would mean telling the truth.  I suspect they'll just ignore your email and hope it goes away.

They'll just brush it under their carpet to hide it and if they don't have enough carpet then they could brush it under Ofcom's carpet alongside Ofcom's!

Interesting responses.

(1). My e-mail to John Goddard, the Managing Director originator of the e-mail containing the false pricing information resulted in the following reply @ 16:42 today:


Quote:

Thank you for your correspondence, John Goddard is on annual leave at the moment, in his absence I would like to acknowledge receipt of your e-mail and assure you that we are looking into this and will get back to you as soon as we can. Kind regards > Chrissie Millington I PA to John Goddard I e-Commerce Channels > T: 020 775 66230 I F: 020 775 66124 I L: TS 4B 21 > chrissie.millington@cahoot.com

(2). The same 'on annual leave' Managing Director, managed to send the following @ 20:22 today:


Quote:

I'm very excited to announce that we'll be launching the new cahoot website on May 8. We started by redesigning the homepage and product pages, and the secure banking pages will follow in a couple of weeks. So why did we do it? Well, we've been doing some research over the last several months and customers like you have told us that our site could use a revamp. You said that we should make things easier to find, and, most importantly, simpler to understand. And you said we should more clearly explain the benefits and advantages of our market-leading products, which would allow you to compare us to other banks. So that's what we've done. Don't worry, there aren't any big complicated changes to get to grips with.  All we've done is a lot of listening and a small amount of programming to make the website clearer. We hope you like it. We know you have many options when looking for a loan, savings account, credit card or current account and we're very happy you've chosen cahoot. We're always interested in understanding from you how we can improve our service, so if you have any ideas please give us a call on our NEW phone number 0844 9000 900 or email us through the 'contact us' section of your personal homepage. Yours sincerely, John Goddard Managing Director Who would you rather be in cahoots with?

Spot the missing words?  You're right, only two - 'LOCAL rate' - are missing from just after the word 'NEW' in the last paragraph.

They don't appear capable of complying with ASA guidelines.

Think I'll be moving my money.

Just received the following from Cahoot:

Dear Mr ,

I am contacting you further to your recent e-mail correspondence with cahoot's Contact Centre regarding our new telephone number.

We're sorry that the e-mail we sent regarding our new telephone number contained inaccurate information regarding 'local rates'.  This was sent as a result of human error for which we sincerely apologise.  

Our new Contact Centre telephone number is charged at a flat rate of 4 pence per minute at all times.

Again I'd like to apologise for any inconvenience our error has caused.  

If you've any further queries or wish to discuss anything in greater detail, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Yours sincerely,

David Freeman,
Service Relationship Manager.

Derrick,

Do you think its worth you emailing back this David Freeman now that you've got a more normal response and pointing him to the ASA decision on 08x/087x numbers in that they should be clearly indicated in all marketing/advertising materials, etc?

The relevant ASA links are Hanging on the telephone and Advertising 084x and 087x numbers.

Yes I will do that

derrick wrote on May 6^th, 2006 at 10:03am:

Received the following e-mail from Cahoot this morning, I have not put the capitals in. Dear Mr I'm very excited to announce that we'll be launching the new cahoot website on May 8. We started by redesigning the homepage and product pages, and the secure banking pages will follow in a couple of weeks. We know you have many options when looking for a loan, savings account, credit card or current account and we're very happy you've chosen cahoot. We're always interested in understanding from you how we can improve our service, so if you have any ideas please give us a call on our NEW LOCAL rate phone number 0844 9000 900 or email us through the 'contact us' section of your personal homepage. Yours sincerely, John Goddard Managing Director Who would you rather be in cahoots with? Not me, I have fired off a reply telling them that the number is not local rate, I do not expect a reply.

What gets me is the way these type of letters are written in such a way to insult people's intelligence. That banks treat their cutomers with contempt is not surprising considering how so few people bother to complain or even walk. The internet bank savings con continues with interest rates being regularly slashed, despite Boe rate holding steady for many months now. As for the new exciting 0844 telephone number, it bothers me not. On the few occasions I have had to ring Cahoot, I've always used the geographical number 02476 627190 without any problem.

bendipa wrote on May 10^th, 2006 at 9:45pm:

On the few occasions I have had to ring Cahoot, I've always used the geographical number 02476 627190 without any problem.

Yes that is the number I ring, but as you say, they do try to con people and I thought it wise to let others know

derrick wrote on May 10^th, 2006 at 10:20pm:

bendipa wrote on May 10th, 2006 at 9:45pm: On the few occasions I have had to ring Cahoot, I've always used the geographical number 02476 627190 without any problem. Yes that is the number I ring, but as you say, they do try to con people and I thought it wise to let others know

Ah, would that be 024 7662 7190?   ;)

Tanllan wrote on May 11^th, 2006 at 11:20am:

derrick wrote on May 10th, 2006 at 10:20pm: bendipa wrote on May 10th, 2006 at 9:45pm: On the few occasions I have had to ring Cahoot, I've always used the geographical number 02476 627190 without any problem. Yes that is the number I ring, but as you say, they do try to con people and I thought it wise to let others know Ah, would that be 024 7662 7190?   ;)

When I say things like that I'm called a pedant. :o

bbb_uk wrote on May 10^th, 2006 at 4:53pm:

Derrick, Do you think its worth you emailing back this David Freeman now that you've got a more normal response and pointing him to the ASA decision on 08x/087x numbers in that they should be clearly indicated in all marketing/advertising materials, etc? The relevant ASA links are Hanging on the telephone and Advertising 084x and 087x numbers.

I did send a message yesterday with those links and informing them they were breaking the Consumer Protection Act 1987 (part III), I have now received the following from them:-

Dear Mr,

Thank you for your recent e-mail.

I do appreciate your sentiments regarding the price indications and can assure you that this message was sent to our customers as a result of genuine human error.  We've rectified this by posting the following message to all our customer's personal homepage:

"We now have a new customer phone number 0844 9000 900 to replace 0870 6000 655. We would like to clarify the cost of calling this number is four pence a minute at all times. If you have any further queries please click on 'contact us' above or give us a call!"

We're sorry for the error we've made and for any inconvenience this has caused.

Yours sincerely,

David Freeman,
cahoot Service Relationship Manager

derrick wrote on May 10^th, 2006 at 10:20pm:

bendipa wrote on May 10th, 2006 at 9:45pm: On the few occasions I have had to ring Cahoot, I've always used the geographical number 02476 627190 without any problem. Yes that is the number I ring, but as you say, they do try to con people and I thought it wise to let others know

They and all the other banks, I'm afraid. The trouble is none of these organisations give a rat's @rse that you know or object to their misleading adverts or announcements. Whatever, I've come to realise over time that it's not worth the sweat complaining any more, since nothing will ever get done about it. Even if a bank seriously rips off a customer who then complains to the financial ombudsman, you will just be fobbed off. The whole complaints procedure is pure farce. The only time the fo ever take you seriously is when the media pick up on a story, eg it gets featured on BBC Watchdog.

kk wrote on May 7^th, 2006 at 8:36pm:

Make a complaint to the Banking Code Standards Board  of  a "Deliberate misrepresentation to a customer"

As I said,I did complain to the BCSB and today received a reply, not much use though:-


"Thank you for your email. The BCSB is an independent body that polices the Banking Code and the Business Banking Code. We do not investigate individual complaints against banks and building societies, because that is the role of the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS). The BCSB Helpline can only advise on your rights under the Banking Codes, and cannot give legal advice.

I can't give you legal advice on whether cahoot has broken the law in respect of its email. The BCSB is not a law enforcer. I have passed the details of your complaint to our Head of Code Compliance Monitoring so that he is aware of the matter, and thank you for bringing this to our attention.

If you want to make a complaint to the bank under its internal complaints procedure, the procedure is as follows:

You should complain first to the bank itself. They will give you a copy of their complaints procedure. This sets out the legal timescale they are required to follow in dealing with your complaint. Your complaint should be made in writing, to  their designated complaints department.

After they have looked into your complaint, they will write to tell you of the outcome of their investigation. They will also tell you about your right to bring your complaint to the FOS if you are still not happy.

The FOS helps settle disputes between individuals or small businesses and financial organisations. If a settlement cannot be agreed, they decide who is right. The service is free to consumers and its decisions are binding on financial organisations.  FOS can make awards of up to £100,000. You can find their contact details on their website at www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk <http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/>;  The FOS takes account of the Banking Codes in making its decisions.

I hope that you are able to resolve your complaint.

Regards,

Jane McCue

Helpdesk Manager"

I received a cut and paste variation of that 'fob off' reply from her too:


Quote:

Thank you for your email. The BCSB is an independent body that polices the Banking Code and the Business Banking Code. We do not investigate individual complaints against banks and building societies, because that is the role of the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS). The BCSB Helpline can only advise on your rights under the Banking Codes, and cannot give legal advice. I have passed the information that you have supplied to our Head of Compliance Monitoring, for his information. I note from your email that you have checked the position with the ASA. If you want to make a complaint to the bank, the procedure is as follows: You should ask the bank for a copy of its complaints procedure. This sets out the legal timescale they are required to follow in dealing with your complaint. Your complaint should be made in writing, to  their designated complaints department. After they have looked into your complaint, they will write to tell you of the outcome of their investigation. They will also tell you about your right to bring your complaint to the FOS if you are still not happy. The FOS helps settle disputes between individuals or small businesses and financial organisations. If a settlement cannot be agreed, they decide who is right. The service is free to consumers and its decisions are binding on financial organisations.  FOS can make awards of up to £100,000. You can find their contact details on their website at www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk <http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/>;  The FOS takes account of the Banking Codes in making its decisions. The BCSB is always pleased to hear from customers where there has been a serious breach of the Codes. Customers who let us know about serious Code breaches provide useful intelligence and may help us to correct a problem before it becomes more widespread. But most individual problems are usually best dealt with via the firm’s own complaints procedure and if necessary the FOS. The BCSB cannot generally take action just because you have received poor service, nor can we become involved in matters that are going through the courts or where another regulator is involved. A serious breach of the Codes is likely to be one that has affected other customers, has been systematic, has continued for a long time or is suspected of having been deliberate. We keep a record of all complaints that are notified to us. We will take note of any useful intelligence regarding the operation of the Codes disclosed in your email, and if there is, in our view, evidence of a serious breach of either  Code, we may write to you again for more information. I hope that you are able to resolve your complaint. Regards, Jane McCue Helpdesk Manager

It does look like the Banking Code Standards Board may not be the organisation to complain to, but having said that, it appears that if sufficient complaints are made on a topic then the Banking Code itself may well be modified.  So after all, it may not be a bad idea to complain to them [ helpline@bcsb.org.uk ].

Complaining about a bank using an 0844 900 xx number and passing it off as a local number, has its complexity.

Normally if a customer has a complaint against a bank, they first  complain direct to the bank. It is advisable to head correspondence with the words “complaint” and ask them to start the “complaints procedure”.  If unsatisfied with the outcome, a customer can complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service (020 7964 1000), who will investigate.  I am informed by them that a customer has to suffer a financial loss, otherwise they can do nothing.

If you have a complaint about the conduct of a bank (or other financial body) you can complain direct to the Financial Services Authority (www.fsa.gov.uk), who I understand, do not correspond on the matter, but do have very wide powers against financial institutions and can inspect all manner of documents (not only yours).  They can fine them quite large amounts and are the most powerful body to which a complaint can be made.  

Using an 0844 900 xxx telephone number and passing it of as a low cost “local number” is serious as it can generate substantial revenue for the bank at the expense of customer who are mislead as to the true cost of telephoning the number.  This is especially so when telephoning from a public telephone box, as 0844 900 xxx numbers are more expensive than even the expensive 0870 or 0845 numbers and cost 10p for every 45 seconds of call time.  As a customer you can complain that you would be unable to telephone your bank from outside the UK using an 0844 900 xxx telephone number.

I would send a complaint to all three of the organisations mentioned above.

I received a grovelling telephone call apologising for the 'error' and for the subsequent 'error' by the member of staff misquoting the cost of calling.

I'm not bothering to do any more complaining though because, when I questioned the groveller about the cost of calls to 0870 numbers at evening and weekends compared with 0844 numbers, SHE DIDN'T KNOW!

Naturally, I told her, describing the introduction of the 0844 number as a devious New Labour-style stealth tax which would result in closure of my account and removal of all my money.  I am sure it'll be small potatoes to them but it'll make me feel better.