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Main Forum >> Geographical Numbers Chat >> Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concerns
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Message started by bbb_uk on Nov 6th, 2006 at 12:56pm

Title: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concerns
Post by bbb_uk on Nov 6th, 2006 at 12:56pm
I recently sent the following letter to Sky's escalated complaints, Viewer Relations (viewerr@bskyb.com):-


Quote:
To whomever it concerns,

Lately there has been a lot of newspaper articles and news items on TV about companies such as yourself that use numbers beginning 084x/087x.

In most cases a company using such numbers actually earns a revenue from each minute that us consumers are on the phone to you.  This revenue you receive varies depending on the number but can be upto around 4p/min (higher in some high usage cases).

These numbers are commonly misleadingly advertised as 'local' or 'national' rate and Ofcom, the ASA (Advertising Standards Authority) and Trading Standards have agreed that describing any number beginning 084x/087x as either 'local rate' or 'national rate' is misleading.

The reason is that the cost of the calling these numbers varies and in most cases costs more than a normal geographical (those beginning 01 or 02) calls.  In fact, it can cost anywhere upto 40p/min (on some mobile networks) to ring these type of numbers.

The newspaper articles about the use of these numbers are available in the following links:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5405620.stm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2389087,00.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=408660&in_page_id=1770
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2005300000-2006460369,,00.html

and a BBC news video:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/nolavconsole/ukfs_news/hi?redirect=st.stm&news=1&bbram=1&bbwm=1&nbram=1&nbwm=1&nol_storyid=5410232

I would hereby like to make a complaint about your number, 08702 404040 (all all your other 0870 numbers), and the fact that you are most likely are receiving revenue from us consumers calling on these expensive numbers as mentioned in the above newspaper/TV articles.

Due to the continuing use of these numbers, Ofcom has announced that a new number range beginning 03x should be available from January/February 2007 and that revenue sharing (the money you receive) on 0870 will end during the beginning of 2008.  This new number range (03x) will offer the exact same facilities/network features like IVR (Interactive Voice Response), Intelligent Call Routings, etc that are available now on existing 084x/087x numbers EXCEPT these new numbers will not cost us consumers anymore money than a normal geographical call and will actually be free for us consumers that have inclusive call plans.  The existing 084x/087x numbers in most cases isn't included in any plans simply due to the fact that they cost so much more than existing geographical numbers (those numbers beginning 01 or 02).

I note that even your competitors, although use one of these number ranges (0845), use a cheaper one than your contact numbers which I find disgraceful that a large company such as yourselves with many more customers than your competitors have the need to use more expensive contact numbers and earn money from us calling you.

I would also like to add that your online 'Contact Us' form on your website which we fill in for any queries/complaints/sales, etc only allows 125 characters.  That is a severely low amount of letters and as such means that anyone wishing to contact you via this method is actually forced to ring you and pay expensive rates for you to earn money in return.  I don't know if this is deliberate to force us to ring you at your expensive rates or a design flaw when the contact form was setup by your technical IT department!!!

I look forward to your reply.

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by bbb_uk on Nov 6th, 2006 at 1:05pm
And today I received the following response:-


Quote:
Thanks for your email about the telephone contact numbers used by us at Sky.

I was sorry to read that you are unhappy with the telephone contact numbers used by us at Sky and the contact us link via the website.

Unfortunately, I am unable to comment with regard to Ofcom's announcement regarding new numbers. The numbers used by Sky are national rate numbers, however, the charges will vary if calling from a mobile telephone. Details of the costs can be provided by your telephone provider.

Please see below alternative contacts which may be of interest to you:

Should your complaint be in relation to your account, the address is:

Sky Subscriber Services
P.O. Box 43
Livingston
EH54 7DD

Tel: 08702 404040
Email: skydigital@bskyb.com

However, should your complaint be in relation to a channel or programming issue, the address is:

BSkyB
Grant Way
Isleworth
Middlesex
TW7 5QD

Tel: 08702 40 3000
Email: viewerr@bskyb.com

Rest assured your comments and views have been noted.

Thanks, once again, for contacting us.  We always welcome customers’ comments and actively encourage viewers’ feedback.

Kind regards


As you can determine by their response that they really don't care at all and totally ignored any comments about them making money.  They also still think 0870 is national rate.

I therefore urge all Sky customers to email Sky at the address in my first post and complain like I did.  Maybe!!! with enough complaints they will reconsider their use of number otherwise I do believe that when the time comes they'll migrate over to 0871 as this allows them to continue receiving more revenue than they are now.  They could however, switch over to 0844 but it'll most likely be the 5p/min at all times option.

My letter to them was based on the draft letter I did here.

A lot of forum members are posting that they hate paying Sky's stealth premium rate 0870 number and this is why I urge you all to email Sky and complain otherwise that basically ensures that Sky will do nothing at all and continue to receive money from keeping us held in a queue for over 20+ minutes in some cases.

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by NGMsGhost on Nov 6th, 2006 at 8:38pm
If you are contacting Sky on this subject I would also make sure to copy in james.murdoch@bskyb.com, jeremy.darroch@bskyb.com and brian.sullivan@bskyb.com too

Sky know perfectly well that 0870 is not National Rate but they are such disgusting money grabbing cynics that they repeatedly train staff to lie (seemingly on pain of the sack) about it because they know the utterly useless jokers who run Ofcom will do precisely nothing about their continued and pathological lieing to all their customers.

If Sky put the lie that 0870 is National Rate in an advert you can complain to the ASA about it and get it stopped but if they put it in a letter or on their website there is nothing you can do thanks to useless Ofcom not excercising any of their own optional backstop powers under the Communications Act 2003 to stop this scamming.

I think one would achieve rather more though by visiting one's MP and asking him to refer a complaint to the Parliamentary Ombudsman asking why Ofcom has failed to ensure accurate price disclosure of the cost of calling telephone numbers by telecoms companies and call centres in all possible locations in which that information can be provided to customers - give Sky as an example of where Ofcom have failed to take any action.

Ofcom like Sky have nothing but total contempt for the British public but they would be scared of having an MP and the Parliamentary Ombudsman breathing down their necks.

Title: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concerns
Post by peterlittleton on Nov 6th, 2006 at 2:17pm
Thanks for the Draft Letter, I have made a few amendments and e-mailed it to Sky. I will post an update when I receive their reply.

Copy of my letter below.

Dear Sir or Madam

Lately there has been a lot of newspaper articles and news items on TV about companies such as yourself that use Telephone numbers beginning 084x/087x.

In most cases a company using such numbers actually earns a revenue from each minute that us consumers are on the phone to you.  This revenue you receive varies depending on the number but can be up to around 4p/min (higher in some high usage cases).

These numbers are commonly advertised as 'local' or 'national' rate and Ofcom, the ASA (Advertising Standards Authority) and Trading Standards have agreed that describing any number beginning 084x/087x as either 'local rate' or 'national rate' is misleading. The reason is that the cost of the calling these numbers varies and costs more than a normal geographical (01 or 02 call). In fact, it can cost anywhere up to 40p/min (on some mobile networks) to ring these numbers. Sky still refer to their 0870 numbers as "National Rate" and according to Trading Standards are therefore guilty of misleading customers.

The newspaper articles about the use of these numbers are available in the following links:-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5405620.stm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2389087,00.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=408660&in_page_id=1770
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2005300000-2006460369,,00.html
and a BBC news video:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/nolavconsole/ukfs_news/hi?redirect=st.stm&news=1&bbram=1&bbwm=1&nbram=1&nbwm=1&nol_storyid=5410232

I would hereby like to make a complaint about your number, 08702 404040, and the fact that you are receiving revenue from us calling on this expensive number as mentioned in the above newspaper/TV articles. I spend almost £50.00 a month on sky services (TV & Skytalk) and object to paying extra to ring you when the cost of the call should really be included in my Skytalk inclusive call plan. In the past I have waited over 30 minutes in a queue at a cost of £2.40 before the call was answered. This really is a poor service.

Due to the continuing use of these numbers, Ofcom has announced that a new number range beginning 03x should be available from January/February 2007.  This new number range will offer the exact same facilities/network features like IVR (Interactive Voice Response), Intelligent Call Routings, etc that are available now on existing 084x/087x numbers EXCEPT these new numbers will not cost us consumers anymore money than a normal geographical call and will actually be free for us consumers that have inclusive call plans.

I do hope that Sky will consider making an ethical decision to migrate to using one of the new 03 numbers.Should Sky fail to do so then I will be very likely to end my Sky Subscription and instead move to NTL who I already have my Broadband with.

Yours faithfully





~Edited by bbb_uk: Corrected links

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by kk on Nov 7th, 2006 at 8:08pm
Thanks for the contact email addresses NGM.

I have just emailed Sky informing them that I have changed to cable.  Reason: Sky's use of 0870 numbers.

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by NGMsGhost on Nov 7th, 2006 at 8:15pm

kk wrote on Nov 7th, 2006 at 8:08pm:
I have just emailed Sky informing them that I have changed to cable.  Reason: Sky's use of 0870 numbers.


You mean Teleworst or NTHell don't use an 0870 number then? :o

I wouldn't object to the 0870 number so much if Sky provided a web interface for making changes to channel packages but no incredibly they make you spend ages talking to and holding for employees which they must still surely lose plenty of money on overall despite the 0870 number.  No wonder they have to charge so much as the minimum monthly fee you can pay them (£15).

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by bbb_uk on Nov 7th, 2006 at 8:26pm

NGMsGhost wrote on Nov 7th, 2006 at 8:15pm:
I wouldn't object to the 0870 number so much if Sky provided a web interface for making changes to channel packages but no incredibly they make you spend ages talking to and holding for employees which they must still surely lose plenty of money on overall despite the 0870 number
..Or even if they provided an email facility other than their online form which only allows a maximum of 128 characters.  In other words you have to make it a very, very short email otherwise you're forced to ring them for which they earn money for.

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by NGMsGhost on Nov 7th, 2006 at 8:42pm

bbb_uk wrote on Nov 7th, 2006 at 8:26pm:
Or even if they provided an email facility other than their online form which only allows a maximum of 128 characters.  In other words you have to make it a very, very short email otherwise you're forced to ring them for which they earn money for.


Nope I'm pretty sure they lose money every single time they take a phone call even after the 0870 revenue share.  I don't think you can employ much in the way of a UK call centre worker at £1.80 to £2.40 per hour (3p to 4p per minute revenue share)?  OK if you factor in call waiting times perhaps they earn £7 an hour.  Still losing money though after the office space allocated to the person, their computer and wages are factored in.  Perhaps they could make a profit in the weekday daytime on 0870 if the call is taken in India though? ;)

I think they perhaps only make money by persuading people to upgrade to Sky+, Sky HD and more expensive channel packages when all they wanted to do was change a Channel Mix selection or something?  You know how easily most members of the public apart from us are led............... ;)

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by kk on Nov 8th, 2006 at 12:02pm
The reply from Sky:-

"Thank you for your recent email addressed to James Murdoch, Jeremy Darroch and Brian Sullivan which has been passed for my attention.

I welcome your comments regarding the cost of calling the 0870 telephone numbers in order to contact us.

However, I would draw your attention to other means of communication such as www.sky.com which allows you to contact us directly via email or using our feedback forms.  There is also the provision to allow you to order Sky products and change you Sky package.

Once the equipment is installed, you can use Sky active through your Sky box to view your Sky statements, upgrade your Sky subscription and order additional products and services.

I hope this information is of use to you.  However, should you require any further assistance in regards to this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me directly at the address above.

Kind Regards

Natalie Paton
Customer Liaison Consultant"

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by NGMsGhost on Nov 8th, 2006 at 12:13pm

kk wrote on Nov 8th, 2006 at 12:02pm:
I welcome your comments regarding the cost of calling the 0870 telephone numbers in order to contact us.

However, I would draw your attention to other means of communication such as www.sky.com which allows you to contact us directly via email or using our feedback forms.  There is also the provision to allow you to order Sky products and change you Sky package.

Once the equipment is installed, you can use Sky active through your Sky box to view your Sky statements, upgrade your Sky subscription and order additional products and services.


At least she clearly accepts that 0870 is hidden premium rate call and involves a revenue share to them.  Not quite as bad as bare faced lying which is Sky's usual slimey tactic.

As to amending your Sky package via the box or online neither are possible unless you want to move up to their Premium movie packages or order Sky+.  If you just want to change your Sky Mixes or resubscribe for a month or desubscribe you are forced to call them.

You might like to write back to her and copying in Messrs Murdoch, Darroch and Sullivan to make that point.  Ask why they don't have full online account management like everyone else.  Especially now that they are also in the broadband marketplace. ::)

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by bbb_uk on Nov 8th, 2006 at 2:37pm

NGMsGhost wrote on Nov 8th, 2006 at 12:13pm:
At least she clearly accepts that 0870 is hidden premium rate call and involves a revenue share to them.
I never read anything that suggests that Sky accepts that 0870 is hidden premium rate and/or involves a revenue share.  All they've said is basically there are other methods of communicating with them.  This doesn't really state that she (or Sky) accept that 0870 is a hidden premium as they've specifically avoided the mentioning or implying that 0870 is a hidden premium.

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by NGMsGhost on Nov 8th, 2006 at 2:54pm

bbb_uk wrote on Nov 8th, 2006 at 2:37pm:
I never read anything that suggests that Sky accepts that 0870 is hidden premium rate and/or involves a revenue share.  All they've said is basically there are other methods of communicating with them.  This doesn't really state that she (or Sky) accept that 0870 is a hidden premium as they've specifically avoided the mentioning or implying that 0870 is a hidden premium.


Well at least she didn't try to claim it was BT National Rate as all their staff normally do and in suggesting that there were free of cost ways to contact them or change services she did in effect acknowledge that some customers felt using the 0870 phone number was too expensive.  Its clear from the tone and phrasing of the communication that she knows perfectly well what the problem is with 0870 and is trying to find a way to dodge the issue.  What really makes my blood boil is when Sky staff just brasenly still try to claim that 0870 is charge at the BT National Rate as so many of their phone advisers do.

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by bbb_uk on Nov 8th, 2006 at 3:01pm

NGMsGhost wrote on Nov 8th, 2006 at 2:54pm:
Its clear from the tone and phrasing of the communication that she knows perfectly well what the problem is with 0870 and is trying to find a way to dodge the issue.
I agree.  They would have checked the links I provided which clearly state that 0870/0845 is used to earn money but of course its unlikely that Sky would ever admit this as it wouldn't look good for them.


Quote:
What really makes my blood boil is when Sky staff just brasenly still try to claim that 0870 is charge at the BT National Rate as so many of their phone advisers do.
Some of this, again, may come down to the fact that many CP's still state that 084x is local rate and 087x is national rate so I believe due to this why would anyone think otherwise especially since they did used to get known as local rate and national rate upto about 2 years ago?

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by NGMsGhost on Nov 8th, 2006 at 3:09pm

bbb_uk wrote on Nov 8th, 2006 at 3:01pm:
Some of this, again, may come down to the fact that many CP's still state that 084x is local rate and 087x is national rate so I believe due to this why would anyone think otherwise especially since they did used to get known as local rate and national rate upto about 2 years ago?


Which is why the 03 code won't stop the con due to the scammers being able to remain using 0844, 0845 and 0871 which people will still wrongly imagine are "local rate" or "national rate".  And of course Ofcom won't do anything itself about such factually misleading claims continuing to be made.

Had Ofcom returned 08 to only Freephone use and given revenue sharers a choice only of 03 NGNs charged at geographic rates to consumers that they pay the extra service fees on or getting an 09 number from 1p per minute fully disclosed as being revenue sharing then the whole 084/7 local/national rate revenue share deception would have ended.

The fact Ofcom did not do this is why I now regard them as an organisation with no genuine consumer protection interest and existing only to legalise the actions of the worst telecoms scammers.  They then confirmed this by allowing BT to introduce a hidden 20% price rise for most UK telecoms consumers.

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by derrick on Nov 8th, 2006 at 3:59pm

4PetesSake wrote on Nov 6th, 2006 at 2:17pm:
The newspaper articles about the use of these numbers are available in the following links:-  
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=4086 60&in_page_id=1770
and a BBC news video:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/nolavconsole/ukfs_news/hi?redirect=st.s tm&news=1&bbram=1&bbwm=1&nbram=1&nbwm=1&nol_storyid=5410232

~Edited by bbb_uk: Amended post title to match thread title



What has this  dailymail link got to do with phone numbers ?

And the video link goes nowhere!

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by bbb_uk on Nov 12th, 2006 at 9:44am

derrick wrote on Nov 8th, 2006 at 3:59pm:

4PetesSake wrote on Nov 6th, 2006 at 2:17pm:
The newspaper articles about the use of these numbers are available in the following links:-  
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=4086 60&in_page_id=1770
and a BBC news video:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/nolavconsole/ukfs_news/hi?redirect=st.s tm&news=1&bbram=1&bbwm=1&nbram=1&nbwm=1&nol_storyid=5410232

~Edited by bbb_uk: Amended post title to match thread title


What has this  dailymail link got to do with phone numbers ?

And the video link goes nowhere!
The links you mentioned somehow had a space in them which confused the browser.  I've just amended the post in question and removed the two spaces.

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by bbb_uk on Nov 12th, 2006 at 9:49am
A few days ago I emailed James Murdock the exact same email as I mentioned in my OP, and got the following reply from Natalie, Customer Liaison Consultant:-


Quote:
Thank you for your recent email, addressed to James Murdoch, which has been passed for my attention.

I am sorry that you have some concerns regarding the 087 numbers that we provide for customers to contact us on.

As I’m sure you’re aware, there is currently no legal requirement to provide call costs on 087 numbers, other than in communications covered by the Committee of Advertising Practice (CAP) code (print marketing).  In all print marketing communications we state clearly that “calls cost up to 8p per minute for BT customers. Calls from other providers may vary.

Please find below details of the maximum cost for calls per minute to our contact centre from a BT landline (again, calls from other networks can vary):

Daytime – 7.91p
Evening – 3.95p
Weekend – 1.50p

On this basis, Sky is clearly acting within the legal and regulatory guidelines.

Again, as you have pointed out, Ofcom has published a lengthy statement on the conclusion of its consultation on 087/0845 numbers.  Some of the key proposals set out in Ofcom’s statement are:
  • a “geographical link” to be restored for calls to 0870 numbers, meaning that such call charges should be no higher than the rate for national calls to geographical numbers (i.e. local or national numbers) unless a “free-to-caller price pre-announcement” is made at the start of the call informing the caller of the specific charges for that call (in which case a higher charge can be levied).  In effect, this requirement does away with the ability to revenue share on such number ranges; it does not however, establish a universal flat-rate tariff for such calls – charges can vary and will depend on the charges for geographical calls in different call packages.
  • Ofcom intends these changes to come into force only in January 2008.  Ofcom is also currently undertaking a review of telephone numbering generally, and as part of this review, it anticipates setting out plans for opening up new non-geographical number ranges (at different price levels), including those that will permit revenue sharing.  Ofcom considers that this report must be published before companies are required to react to its 0870 proposals.
  • Ofcom intends to deem 0871 numbers as “premium rate” numbers, such that they fall under the remit of ICSTIS.  Ofcom proposes that this classification will require companies to provide clear information on the charges for calls to these numbers in adverts and other promotional material from January 2008.

Whilst I understand your concerns regarding call charges into our contact centre, as stated above we are acting in full compliance with the current regulatory and legal framework.

We are pleased to advise that we are currently working on the implementation of a fully integrated on-line customer management system.  However, in the meantime, our customers are in fact able to manage all aspects of their customer account via the “Feedback” section of Customer Zone.  Customers can cancel an account, change a viewing package, organise equipment upgrades, order new services or amend account details by sending a feedback message to us.  Once the feedback message is received, customers are contacted by one of our customer service agents to implement the customer’s request. Whilst we are always looking to improve our customer’s account management facilities, in our view, this service is suitable for our customer’s account management needs.

Your comments and observations are taken very seriously by Sky, and I can assure you that these will be passed for the attention of the relevant individuals.  Thank you again for taking the time to highlight your concerns.

Should you require any further assistance in regards to this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me directly at the address above.

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by Heinz on Nov 12th, 2006 at 3:02pm

bbb_uk wrote on Nov 12th, 2006 at 9:49am:
A few days ago I emailed James Murdock the exact same email as I mentioned in my OP, and got the following reply from Natalie, Customer Liaison Consultant:-


Quote:
Thank you for your recent email, addressed to James Murdoch, which has been passed for my attention.

We are pleased to advise that we are currently working on the implementation of a fully integrated on-line customer management system.  However, in the meantime, our customers are in fact able to manage all aspects of their customer account via the “Feedback” section of Customer Zone.  Customers can cancel an account, change a viewing package, organise equipment upgrades, order new services or amend account details by sending a feedback message to us. Once the feedback message is received, customers are contacted by one of our customer service agents to implement the customer’s request. Whilst we are always looking to improve our customer’s account management facilities, in our view, this service is suitable for our customer’s account management needs.

Don't take too much notice of that garbage.

That 'facility' restricts the user to 512 characters - not even enough to get up a head of steam let alone vent my spleen.

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by bbb_uk on Nov 12th, 2006 at 3:43pm

Heinz wrote on Nov 12th, 2006 at 3:02pm:
That 'facility' restricts the user to 512 characters - not even enough to get up a head of steam let alone vent my spleen.
What's worse is their 'Contact Us' online queries form is only 125 characters so using their feedback form would allow you to put a few extra words in the email compared to their contact us online forms.    Yipee!  ;)

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by peterlittleton on Nov 12th, 2006 at 6:35pm
If you want to e-mail Sky, just send it to skydigital@bskyb.com.

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by NGMsGhost on Nov 12th, 2006 at 11:15pm

4PetesSake wrote on Nov 12th, 2006 at 6:35pm:
If you want to e-mail Sky, just send it to skydigital@bskyb.com.


And get fobbed off with the predictable Sharon/Dave customer service rep style reply I would suggest.

An email to james.murdoch@bskyb.com is likely to be looked at by a considerable higher level person in the UK customer care team and to be transformed into some kind of weekly summary for James Murdoch himself to look at,

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by NGMsGhost on Nov 12th, 2006 at 11:22pm

bbb_uk wrote on Nov 12th, 2006 at 9:49am:
We are pleased to advise that we are currently working on the implementation of a fully integrated on-line customer management system.  However, in the meantime, our customers are in fact able to manage all aspects of their customer account via the “Feedback” section of Customer Zone.  Customers can cancel an account, change a viewing package, organise equipment upgrades, order new services or amend account details by sending a feedback message to us.  Once the feedback message is received, customers are contacted by one of our customer service agents to implement the customer’s request. Whilst we are always looking to improve our customer’s account management facilities, in our view, this service is suitable for our customer’s account management needs.

Your comments and observations are taken very seriously by Sky, and I can assure you that these will be passed for the attention of the relevant individuals.  Thank you again for taking the time to highlight your concerns


At least its clear that Sky high level customer complaints realise they can no longer get away with fobbing people off in claiming that its only BT National Rate.  They are correct that what they are doing is entirely legal, its just that its not ethical bearing in mind how extortionately expensive are Sky's tv subscription packages.

The most productive suggestion she makes is that if you use the Feedback zone on their website to request changes to your channel package then they will call you back to go through the security rigmarole and confirm you are the person requesting the changes.  I suggest people try that route out and see if it works.  It is extaordinary that Sky has taken so long to implement online account management since they clearly still lose money on having to pay people to take our phone calls, even though the 0870 charges offset some of the cost.

If they got rid of their call centre model they ought to be able to cut most of the channel package costs by £2 or £3 per month.

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by chrissdp on Dec 9th, 2006 at 4:48pm
dont goto ntl they are just as bad.Iam trying to move my ntl no. to my new address needless to say  16 days later I still have no phone(tv and broadband ok) but try to phone them spent £28.50 0n calls to 0845 nos tried 0800 nos had 4 days of work they have even put new line to house(didnot need to)engineer went to wrong cabinet in street.


Isaid  I want to  talk to the complaints dept.THEIR ANSWER RING 151 FREE CALL(WHEN PHONE IS CONNECTED)

STILL TOOK DIRECT DEBIT FOR LINE RENTALWHICH I DONT HAVE.Any suggestions what to do :'(

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by NGMsGhost on Dec 10th, 2006 at 12:01pm

chrissdp wrote on Dec 9th, 2006 at 4:48pm:
dont goto ntl they are just as bad.Iam trying to move my ntl no. to my new address needless to say  16 days later I still have no phone(tv and broadband ok) but try to phone them spent £28.50

Isn't that nearly 12 hours of calling them and being on hold? :o

Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by bbb_uk on Jan 6th, 2007 at 4:58pm
Well early December I emailed those people mentioned earlier in this thread about the possibility of for those using SkyTalk (their CPS service) to have free customer services like BT, NTL/Telewest, TalkTalk and a few others do.

For example, TalkTalk (as we all know) use 0870 numbers even for customer services except for those on TalkTalk calling their customer services then the call was free.

I asked why SkyTalk couldn't do something similar or if they had plans on doing something similar.

Well, not so suprisingly, my email was totally ignored despite my previous email being answered.

I believe that highlights Sky's c/s and how they will ignore (the best they can) and defend their use of stealth premium rate 0870 numbers.

I'm very curious as to what they will do come early next year (Feb 2008) when revenue sharing ends on 0870 numbers!

They are probably waiting to see what (if any) consumer protections ICSTIS will announce for 0871 numbers.  For example, if ICSTIS do announce that charging whilst in a queue will be prohibited then this is something Sky wont like so will probably migrate to other numbers.  If ICSTIS don't do anything as such then Sky will probably migrate to 0871.

[advert]Sky - putting the money made from 0870 calls first and customers last[/advert]


Title: Re: Sky Complaint - lack of interest to our concer
Post by NGMsGhost on Jan 6th, 2007 at 5:14pm

bbb_uk wrote on Jan 6th, 2007 at 4:58pm:
They are probably waiting to see what (if any) consumer protections ICSTIS will announce for 0871 numbers.  For example, if ICSTIS do announce that charging whilst in a queue will be prohibited then this is something Sky wont like so will probably migrate to other numbers.  If ICSTIS don't do anything as such then Sky will probably migrate to 0871.


Sky will either move to 0871 if call queuing is still allowed and they don't have to actively announce the call rate per minute before each call.  Failing that they will shift to 0844 at 5p per minute at all times instead.

What they lose in the weekday daytime 0870 rate on 0844 should be recouped by higher call costs to Sky in the evenings and at the weekend when most calls to Sky are obviously actually made.

Title: Sky's new 08?? numbers
Post by Heinz on Jan 6th, 2007 at 8:38pm
And, when they change to 5p/minute (at all times) 0844 numbers, they'll make grand announcements about how they're introducing 'lo-call' number in the interests of their customers.

And Ofcon will do nothing.

Title: Re: Sky's new 08?? numbers
Post by NGMsGhost on Jan 6th, 2007 at 8:56pm

Heinz wrote on Jan 6th, 2007 at 8:38pm:
And Ofcon will do nothing.


I think OfCoN, or at least the ASA who have already made clear pronouncements on this issue, would have to do something if Sky tried on the Lo-Call trick with 0844.

Also with Ed Richards taking over at Ofcom I think now might be the time to have a go and say to Ofcom there is still just time for them to make 0845 change to geographic call rates on 1st Feb 2008 and that this is the only acceptable thing to happen if what Ofcom is doing is to any way make any rational sense at all to the world at large.  Also Ed Richards needs to be persuaded that 0844 also needs to come under ICSTIS control and disclosure requirements.

Having watched Mr Richards performance at the Ofcom Conference on Information Tv on Sky this afternoon I think there is slightly more hope that he might be persuaded to do the right thing than the telco croney connected Stephen Carter.  Also the rate of 0845 dialup use must have been collapsing far faster than they were originally expecting with broadband now in 10 million uk homes, which would surely give OfCon the excuse to have a change of heart on the 0845 becoming GN priced implementation date? :-/

Title: Yet another sky conplaint! re:calls+ referrals
Post by Jai on Jan 17th, 2007 at 9:50pm
I have had the same argument with Sky for over 7 months.

Of course I use the 0800 number provided, and also the number for the head office, which is very helpful (they can put u through to customer services also)

I have had about £30.00 in credit on my account (I would try everytime to ask for a credit on the account, it seems to be issued in £10.00 multiples). I would advise people to push for a £10.00 credit everytime they have to call the premium rate number. Don't beafraid to complain seperately everytime, as it is a seperate complaint its their fault if they dont want to resolve the matter by providing a geographical number

Also recently I have experienced for the second time the joke department within sky that deals with referrals (I waited for over 7 weeks with no contact from them for the second time).

They advertise all of these offers like, get a free sky+ box when u refer a friend, they inturn also recieve an offer like half price instillation. I feel that this poor, inefficient service is yet another one of Sky's tactics to get you to ring them several times trying to resolve this issue.

I was told that it is a seperate department which deals with all the referrals, therefore I couldn't get through on the 0800 number. I had to ring through initialy on the 0870 number (incidently if anyone is ringing re: a referral then make sure you have both account numbers and all details or they will tell you to ring back!)

My response to this (when I rang again over 7 weeks later to the head office- ask to speak to customer relations) was that if it is a seperate department then they should be much more efficient with the offers, and if they cannot handle the amount of referrals, then stop advertising! (you get the same excuse in a resturant, which I politely explain that surely its a good thing, they do put the tables and chairs out themselfs lol!)

Anyway the result of this was they arranged the instillation/ upgrade for me and also they gave me a £15.00 a month discount on my sky for the next 6 months! (this is a total of £90.00)

Get intouch if you need anymore help! I think everyone should complain as I did and push for as much back as you can.

Please reply if you have experienced these problems with sky re: referrals

I feel that sky are breeching the trade descriptions act and I advise you not to stand for it!!

Jai



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