Due to a recent geographical request for Maghull High School (see here), I've today email an FOI request asking for their geographical number, reasons for its introduction, if they make money from the calls, etc.

I shall post back with their response.

Here is their response (received in snail mail format):-


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1.  What is the geographical number of your main contact number 0844 477 3438?

The school does not have the details of a geographical number which you maintain is attached to the 0844 number.  I would suggest that you contact NEG direct for this information.  The school does have a number of direct dial numbers which commence 0151 and this information has been entered onto the school website.


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2.  What was your reasons for the introduction of your 0844 number when it actually costs parents/carers, etc more money to ring than your old geographical number and can cost upto 40p/min from some telephone networks?

The telephone number was notified to the school as part of the update of the whole telephone system.  The school was not made aware of any change to the cost of calls.


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3.  Do you receive any money (revenue) from the use of this number in anyway shape, or form (whether this is invested back in maintaining the call centre/switchboard or not)?  And if so, how much per minute or per call?

The telephone company have advised me that the cost of a one minute call at standard rate is the same as BT.  Calls lasting more than one minute are charged at .82p more for each subsequent minute.  They have also informed me that part of the income derived is set against is set against the cost of the installation.


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4.  Do you contribute in anyway to the use of your 0844 number?  And if so, how much per minute?

The school pays call charges for telephone calls made.  The cost varies depending upon whether they are made to mobile phones or through the direct dial system.


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5.  What features/benefits do you utilise when using these 0844 number that can't be offered on using a geographical number (please bear in mind that call queuing, automatic diversion and automated voice prompts like "press 1 for such a thing, press 2 for this, etc...") is possible from a geographical number and/or a lower cost number like 0845?

The benefits gained by the school by choosing to change telephone operator is the ability to be able to purchase an up to date system which aids communication at an affordable cost.


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6.  Were you aware of the Central Office of Information (COI) and Ofcom's (the telephone regulator) guidelines about the use of such numbers?

The school is not are of the CoI and Ofcom's guidelines about the use of such numbers.


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7.  Were you aware of the potential difficulties of people attempting to call your 0844 number from overseas and the excessive costs involved from those ringing from a payphone or mobile before you implemented the 0844 number?

** not answered **


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8.  Now that you are aware of the difficulties faced by people ringing from overseas, the excessive costs involved and the fact that both the COI and Ofcom advise against the use of non-geographical numbers (those beginning 08x), do you have any plans on switching back to a geographical number, or as recommended by Ofcom, displaying a geographical number alongside your 0844 numbers for those people who are on a low income, calling from a mobile or abroad, etc and so does not act as a "Cost barrier" or more importantly discriminate against those on low income?

I would refer you to the answer given to question 1.  I will also be identifying direct dial numbers starting with 0151 in the next newsletter to parents.

I shall of course be asking for the answer to question 7 but I believe the answer would be "no".

I also plan on sending proof about the cost of the call which NEG maintain is the same as BT.  I note that they (NEG) were careful to not to state same as BT's geographical rate or another specific rate - just that it costs the same as BT.  I'm however confused over the added 'extra' charge that occurs after the first minute.

I believe the evidence speaks for itself that Maghull High school had no idea what they were doing when they got their shiny new telephone equipment in.  It appears they didn't even ask how this so-called 'free' equipment was funded and by whom.

NEG probably came along and said you can have this 'free' new telephone equipment and Maghull high school said "yes, please!"

Am I the only person in the country that thinks there is no such thing as getting something for "free" it nearly always come with t&c, paid for by other means, etc, etc...

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I also plan on sending proof about the cost of the call which NEG maintain is the same as BT.  I note that they (NEG) were careful to not to state same as BT's geographical rate or another specific rate - just that it costs the same as BT.  I'm however confused over the added 'extra' charge that occurs after the first minute.

It is near impossible to take all permutation of call pricing into account, but I suggest that the following would be the most valid comparison for a typical call:

daytime call from BT landline made by somebody on BT Together Option 1

to 0844 477 3438 - 5p/min (at all times)
to an 0151 xxx number: 3p connection charge + 3p/min

Since the connection charge does not apply to NTS calls, a 1 minute call to 0844 is in fact cheaper than to a geographic number. However, from 2 mintues onwards there is a widening gap making the NTS call more and more expensive.

lompos wrote on Jan 17^th, 2007 at 12:35pm:

Since the connection charge does not apply to NTS calls, a 1 minute call to 0844 is in fact cheaper than to a geographic number

The connection charge does apply to NTS calls on BT, it's whole minute charging that does not apply. See here page 27. If you are a BT Business customer, you don't pay connection setup fee for 08x NTS, but residential subscribers do.

I'm going to do a basic comparison between those on BT Option 1 (most consumers are probably on this tariff anyhow) and that of 0844 number.  I'm also going to explain, in hopefully plain english, that NEG are only a CP and not an OCP so therefore have no control over how much a call to 0844 or geographical calls cost.  This is upto OCPs like BT, TalkTalk, NTL/Telewest, etc.

For the sake of avoiding confusion, I'm not going to mention the connection, call setup charge or whatever it's called as this is not as important especially as both call types do attract the 'setup' fee anyhow.

Sorry, I was wrong and Dave is right.  The call set-up fee of 3p does indeed apply to calls made from residential lines to 08xx NTS numbers.

So the price of a one minute daytme call from a residential BT Together Option 1 landline would be:

0844xxx: 3+5=8p
0151xxx: 3+3=6p

and the price of a 5 minute call:

0844xxx: 3+5*5=28p
0151xxx: 3+5*3=18p

and the price of a 10 minute call:

0844xxx: 3+10*5=53p
0151xxx: 3+10*3=33p

Hi all,I am having computer problems at the moment and therefore cannot always log in.
Could I take this opportunity to thank bbb_uk,lompos and Dave for all of your efforts concerning Maghull High School.I did not realize it was so involved and in-depth.
Thanks again.

Big Penny wrote on Feb 10^th, 2007 at 3:02pm:

Could I take this opportunity to thank bbb_uk,lompos and Dave for all of your efforts concerning Maghull High School.I did not realize it was so involved and in-depth. Thanks again.

No problem.

Ring them on 0151 527 3955 as mentioned now on their website.  Also don't forget to complain to them about the costs (a minimum of 5p/min from a BT landline but can be higher from non-BT landlines and upto 40p a minute from some mobile networks) to call them on their 0844 number.

In their FOI response, the headmaster claimed he was going to write to parents/governors, etc informing them of an alternative number to avoid the expensive costs of their new 0844 number.

Just to let you know, this number will get you through, but it is not an exact match of the number that is inside 0844 477 3438.  This is attached to a number which if you ring it out of hours, an announcement states "Maghulll High School is now closed..." and gives the opening times of switchboard.  527 3955 is the receptionists phone.