Walked in on a BBC 1 cookery programme today and was invited to put a question to the chefs by calling 0871 *******. This is the first time I have seen an 0871 numbers used on BBC but with the imminent (well next year anyway) demise of the profit from 0870 I am sure will not be the last. I have noticed that the use of 0871 seems to be increasing as there is no point now in taking out an 0870 number. Perhaps we should be looking at renaming the site "say no to 0871", but i'm sure this has already been suggested. By the way, I am a newbie but used to post under "davis1"; when I changed my computer found I could not access the site so have re-registered.

redant wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2007 at 12:39pm:

Walked in on a BBC 1 cookery programme today and was invited to put a question to the chefs by calling 0871 *******. This is the first time I have seen an 0871 numbers used on BBC but with the imminent (well next year anyway) demise of the profit from 0870 I am sure will not be the last. I have noticed that the use of 0871 seems to be increasing as there is no point now in taking out an 0870 number. Perhaps we should be looking at renaming the site "say no to 0871", but i'm sure this has already been suggested. By the way, I am a newbie but used to post under "davis1"; when I changed my computer found I could not access the site so have re-registered.

Here is an extract from BBC Editorial guidelines:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/editorialguidelines/edguide/interacting/telephoneservic.shtml

These state clearly that pemium rate numbers should only be used in very special circumstances. Why not write to the programme's producers and ask why they used the 0871 number?

farci wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2007 at 1:20pm:

redant wrote on Feb 3rd, 2007 at 12:39pm: Walked in on a BBC 1 cookery programme today and was invited to put a question to the chefs by calling 0871 *******. This is the first time I have seen an 0871 numbers used on BBC but with the imminent (well next year anyway) demise of the profit from 0870 I am sure will not be the last. I have noticed that the use of 0871 seems to be increasing as there is no point now in taking out an 0870 number. Perhaps we should be looking at renaming the site "say no to 0871", but i'm sure this has already been suggested. By the way, I am a newbie but used to post under "davis1"; when I changed my computer found I could not access the site so have re-registered. Here is an extract from BBC Editorial guidelines: http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/editorialguidelines/edguide/interacting/telephoneservic.shtml These state clearly that pemium rate numbers should only be used in very special circumstances. Why not write to the programme's producers and ask why they used the 0871 number?

The BBC will simply,(wrongly), state that premium rate numbers only begin 090, and 087 numbers are not premium rate, that is their stock answer, and until OfCon and the likes admit that 084/087 numbers are premium rate, then we are on a loser with the morons who still say"087/084 are not premium rate"

And the really annoying thing is they will now be raking off even more because most people still think 0871 is the same as 0870 and 'only charged at national rate' whereas the chosen number is probably one of those in the '10p per minute at all times' range.

derrick wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2007 at 2:26pm:

farci wrote on Feb 3rd, 2007 at 1:20pm: redant wrote on Feb 3rd, 2007 at 12:39pm: Walked in on a BBC 1 cookery programme today and was invited to put a question to the chefs by calling 0871 *******. This is the first time I have seen an 0871 numbers used on BBC but with the imminent (well next year anyway) demise of the profit from 0870 I am sure will not be the last. I have noticed that the use of 0871 seems to be increasing as there is no point now in taking out an 0870 number. Perhaps we should be looking at renaming the site "say no to 0871", but i'm sure this has already been suggested. By the way, I am a newbie but used to post under "davis1"; when I changed my computer found I could not access the site so have re-registered. Here is an extract from BBC Editorial guidelines: http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/editorialguidelines/edguide/interacting/telephoneservic.shtml These state clearly that pemium rate numbers should only be used in very special circumstances. Why not write to the programme's producers and ask why they used the 0871 number? The BBC will simply,(wrongly), state that premium rate numbers only begin 090, and 087 numbers are not premium rate, that is their stock answer, and until OfCon and the likes admit that 084/087 numbers are premium rate, then we are on a loser with the morons who still say"087/084 are not premium rate"

Point taken - but further down the guidelines the BBC guidance states:

"...We should normally ensure that premium rate calls are priced at the lowest tariff. They should not normally be used to generate a profit with the exception of BBC charity appeals...."

Has the BBC not already conceded that 084/087xx numbers are revenue generating? Would it not be hard to deny?

farci,
there are other threads, but have a look this one,

http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1116870168   reply#12, Q3, where they say they do not receive any money!

3. What revenue do you receive per minute and in total from the use of 0870
numbers?
Neither the BBC nor Capita receives any money from C&W by way of revenue-share
for the traffic on the BBC's 0870 numbers. Instead the BBC and Capita receive a
higher quality of support from C&W. C&W commits additional resources to support in
order to provide a faster, more-responsive service that is subject to shorter times for
turnaround of requests for change. In turn this means that the BBC (and Capita
working on behalf of the BBC) are able to respond quickly to changes in call traffic as
a result of changing national and international events.

See The use of 0870, 0845, 0800 & premium rate telephone numbers by the BBC. No mention of 0871 though.

Dave wrote on Feb 4^th, 2007 at 12:04pm:

See The use of 0870, 0845, 0800 & premium rate telephone numbers by the BBC. No mention of 0871 though.

Interesting Dave.  I wasn't aware they had published this on their website.

But the key phrase in the document which goes out of its way to obfuscate as to who does the get revenue share is as follows:-


Quote:

The charging policy set by the BBC in1998 when approving the investment proposal in the Capita-run BBC Information service

Its obvious that Capita in some way derives a revenue share that either lowers the cost of the call centre equipment and phone line rental for the equipment or goes directly to Capita as money.  It seems to be the former which is how the BBC manages to consistently cynically lie that it derives no benefit from it financially.  Obviously in reality it gets the contract with Capita more cheaply than if normal 01/02 geographic numbers were used.  An interesting FOI would be to ask if as a result of 0870 number use the cost of the contract with Capital is cheaper than it would be if 01/02 numbers are used.  Also the FOI should ask if the BBC is aware that staff at Capita's call centre are still being consistently trained to say that 0870 is National Rate if the public complain, against ASA and Ofcom guidance.

The people to concentrate on in complaining about this are the members of the BBC Trust which replaced the Board of Governors as they have the power to tell the BBC that its use of 0870 number is inappropriate and must stop.  The key point to harp on about is Social Exclusion and the huge extra cost of calling these numbers from BT Payphones and Pay As You Go mobiles used by the poorest members of the community.  Its obvious digital switchover needs to target the socially excluded and yet incredibly the BBC uses an 0870 number for this service and these tv adverts too.

Its no good complaining to the BBC Information line run by Capita.  Email mark.thompson@bbc.co.uk, your MP and the BBC Trust members about this if you want to get anywhere.

derrick wrote on Feb 4^th, 2007 at 11:38am:

farci, there are other threads, but have a look this one, http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1116870168   reply#12, Q3, where they say they do not receive any money! 3. What revenue do you receive per minute and in total from the use of 0870 numbers? Neither the BBC nor Capita receives any money from C&W by way of revenue-share for the traffic on the BBC's 0870 numbers. Instead the BBC and Capita receive a higher quality of support from C&W. C&W commits additional resources to support in order to provide a faster, more-responsive service that is subject to shorter times for turnaround of requests for change. In turn this means that the BBC (and Capita working on behalf of the BBC) are able to respond quickly to changes in call traffic as a result of changing national and international events.

This is a total distortion of the truth which clearly amounts to Cable & Wireless offering their phone line rental more cheaply to the BBC than if 0870 was not used and also offering the BBC huge discounts on outgoing calls that would not apply if 0870 numbers were not used for incoming calls.

The sad thing is that the BBC have been utterly shameless in totally ignoring the huge public pressure they have come under over this issue.  This is appalling when they are a public sector organisation.

using the link on Daves reply #6, do you think the following from the Q&As near the bottom of the page suggests that the BBC will not migrate from 0870 when the revenue share stops?? (I don't think so).

3. Why not replace 0870 with geographic numbers like 0141 or 0207 etc so callers could ring for free or very cheaply under call discount plans?

We decided against that in 1998 when the Governors approved the use of 0870 numbers because they are fairer – everyone pays the same regardless of where they live. The 0870 numbers also bring some technology and operational advantages such as being able to redirect calls. The BBC has welcomed Ofcom’s proposals to cut the cost of 0870 calls and improve information so we expect it will become cheaper to call the BBC

Also this paragragh,(relating to something 9 years old), is still saying:-" they are fairer"  and   "everyone pays the same regardless of where they live"     They do on 01/02 !

derrick wrote on Feb 4^th, 2007 at 5:07pm:

Also this paragragh,(relating to something 9 years old), is still saying:-" they are fairer"  and   "everyone pays the same regardless of where they live"     They do on 01/02 !

But Capita greedy call centres Inc who write these slogans for the BBC have become used to repeatedly lieing and getting away with it and as the same lie has consistently worked so far and as the ASA cannot control the BBC's lies over their 0870 numbers Capita and the BBC are cynical and complacent enough to think they can get away with it.

If I was you I would approach my MP to suggest that Ofom is badly letting down the UK citizen consumer and failing in its duties under Section 3(i) of the Communications Act 2003 to protect the citizen consumer and also in using its delegated Office of Fair Trading duties by not taking action against the BBC over this continued lieing about the reasons for having an 0870 number and the costs of calling them.

Getting Ofcom to account for its actions (or rather its inaction) in this area  to the Parliamentary Ombudsman is the only way forward. Your MP has the power to ask the Parliamentary Ombudsman to investigate Ofcom.

Do we have any email addresses for the BBC top brass?

kk wrote on Feb 4^th, 2007 at 9:29pm:

Do we have any email addresses for the BBC top brass?

Courtesy of NGM:
Quote:

.........Director General mark.thompson@bbc.co.uk, jana.bennett@bbc.co.uk (head of television), tim.davie@bbc.co.uk (head of audiences), caroline.thomson1@bbc.co.uk (Chief Operating Officer) and all the members of the BBC Trust shown at www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/about/bbc-trust-members/index.html (firstname.lastname@bbc.co.uk for each of them) and copy in ed.richards@ofcom.org.uk, sean.williams@ofcom.org.uk and tessa.jowell@culture.gov.uk if you want to

kk wrote on Feb 4^th, 2007 at 9:29pm:

Do we have any email addresses for the BBC top brass?

Thanks Heinz.

Ultimately writing to your MP and asking him if he will refer Ofcom's failure to act against the BBC and other public bodies using these numbers inappropriately (eg NEG doctors surgeries) in the public sector to the Parliamentary Ombudsman (the only body Ofcom can be called to account by) could also be highly effective.

~ Edited by Dave: Link on quote box corrected