hello
Is anybody out there in the works of making a saynoto0870 iPhone app? It would absolutely kill!

it would be really cool to either search for the number or company name and get a list of numbers then call it straight away!

Of course it would have to look all nice and iphoney.

Cheers!

Yes!

I'm looking into this! However I need the support of the sites owners. I have emailed them through their contact us page, however had no replies. I've also posted a few messages on the forum regarding access to the database, so hopefully I will get a response.

I've already got a few ideas about the layout and features of the app and have started to create something in the iPhone development tools. If the site owners give me the go ahead I will be able to start putting everything together.

It's good to see there is interest in an idea like this. Would you be willing to pay for such an app? Do you have any suggestions for features?

If the site admins read this please get in touch with me, either here or PM! I'd love to discuss this with you and see how we could move this idea forward.

What a great idea! I have an iPhone and would love to see this working!

But how would it work? Would it automatically swap the 0870 number for another when dialing?

Thanks, its great there's an interest in this idea!

The iPhone software development tools have some limitations and it would not be possible to detect when someone is dialing an 0870 number - you'd be unable to suggest an alternate number at that point.

The app would be available on Apples new AppStore (via iTunes). You'd load the app and have the option to search for alternative numbers by company name or phone number. You'd then be able to store the alternate numbers in your Contact list.

Ah; OK.

So, how would it work?

Sorry, missed a bit out of my previous reply.

Once the search results come up as well as being able to add them to your contacts you'd be able to simply tap on the number on the results screen and the number would be called.

I have been emailing the site staff about this for months, as I also wanted to have a go, I have been looking at the possibility of screen scraping the site, but I don't want to reproduce their content with out permission, but I would like some kind of app at least a web app for personal use. however until they open up an API nothing is going to happen with their permission.

It needs to dump out their database into xml format when queiried, I would be happy to work on a php script to do this and assist in iPhone development were possible.

I'm trying to put together a statement that encorporates "Two Hopes" and "Chancer" into one phrase, but it seems to elude me at the moment  :-/

What does that mean Dave?

--------

Also here is a mock up of what I was thinking of for everyone as I already sent this to you dave....

http://www.unknowndomain.co.uk/uploader/files/1/open%20screen.png http://www.unknowndomain.co.uk/uploader/files/1/keyboard.png http://www.unknowndomain.co.uk/uploader/files/1/results.png http://www.unknowndomain.co.uk/uploader/files/1/details.png

I was just thinking about this... I see I am not alone. I don't have an iPhone yet, but plan to get one in the next few months.

The point is this: a lot of the time when one needs a geographic alternative number, one is out and about. For instance, you might see a number in an advert, or public information notice.

Sure, one can go onto the website and type it in manually - but a native iPhone app would be a lot, lot better - allowing you to save/update numbers on the iPhone's contact list, for instance.

In order to encourage adoption, I would definitely recommend it being free. I think it would be a huge hit in the UK, but if you charge for it, it would immediately put people off (and you can't do try-before-you-buy in the app store at present). Also, I think a lot of people would object to paying - even 59p - when they could go to the website and do it for free. Sure, it's less convenient, but it's free!

A less obtrustive, and possibly more effective way of raising funds, would be to have a Donation link on the website of the application. A number of other iPhone apps have this, and I believe a lot of people would then voluntarily donate, after having used it and thought "wow, this is awesome".

So - I hope the discussions with the site owners are productive!

L_S

I would be apposed to charging, however a donation link would be an idea.

I still have not heard back from the site owner, I do wonder if he is concerned / not interested, which is a shame.

Why? What makes iPhone users think they are a cut above the rest where they need their special own program? I don't see the Windows Mobile users asking for one. So what makes the iPhone so special?

I for one disagree with this idea, and good on the site owner making his database private.

Apologies for the length of this, but I feel it important to respond:

I don't think it is a case of "iPhone users thinking they're a cut above the rest". As I said previously, I don't actually own one - and in case you think I'm an Apple fanboy, apart from my iPod I don't own a single Apple product - all my computers are WinXP PCs.

In fact - my current mobile phone is a T-mobile Vario II running - yup, Windows Mobile!

However, the iPhone is an exceedingly capable device, and a couple of factors make it a good platform to develop applications for:

1) The SDK - although it could certainly be improved, many things are very "easy" for developers to accomplish using the SDK.

2) The App store. I've installed WinMob applications on my phone, and it's simply a pain.

You have to find a version which will run (and fit your screen resolution, etc.) on the internet - which is often hard enough - then sync it using ActiveSync, then install it. It simply isn't easy or seamless enough for 95% of people to want to do.

The App store, despite its flaws, makes the process of downloading and installing iPhone apps very, very simple. Simply put, despite the relatively low number of iPhones in existence, if you build a good quality, useful application you will garner a large userbase very, very quickly - something which doesn't happen for 95% of Windows Mobile applications.

3) In the UK at least, the O2 data plan is very good value. A lot of people who aren't on iPhones - myself included - don't have cheap/unlimited data. I try to minimise data browsing! A Windows Mobile application for the site would unlikely be as popular given the variety and costs of various data tariffs!

All of these factors combine to make the iPhone perhaps the most compelling platform to develop mobile applications for at the present time. It's to do with maximum return for a developer's investment of time: there's only one screen resolution/device specification, there's an easy way to get apps onto the device (and market them to the world), and it is easy to develop for.

---

A couple of other points:

1) You seem to be opposed to iPhone users getting an application because Windows Mobile users won't get one... why?

After all, people are not asking the site owners to develop the application (and favour one device over another) - this is a suggestion by independent users of the site who would like to develop an iPhone application.

I am sure that if someone was similarly willing to develop a Windows Mobile application which did the same basic thing, they could do so and the presence of an iPhone application would not somehow discriminate against them - because it isn't the site owners who would be doing the coding work, but end users who want the application.

Look at it another way: for example, if I wanted to build an extension for MS Outlook which would look up numbers from this site, that might be because I use Outlook. It would not stop, or discriminate against, someone doing the same for Thunderbird (or any other application). It would not imply an endorsement of one platform over another by the site owners!

2) "Good on the site owner for making his database private"... based on the rest of your argument, you seem to be saying this simply because it would spite those who wish to develop iPhone applications. But what if someone wanted to build a Windows Mobile (or indeed Symbian) application? A "private database" would be no help for them!

Secondly, the database isn't really "private". After all, you can type in a number and get a result! What it does not have is an API which makes retrieving such data programmatically simple.

It would not be impossible, or even exceedingly difficult, for an iPhone developer (or any developer for any platform) to simply "screen-scrape" the output of this site. It may be morally and legally questionable, but it isn't difficult. I think that those who wish to make applications have done exactly the right thing by contacting the site owners in order to come to a proper formal arrangement, rather than simply screen-scrape and not tell them!

So given all of the above, I fail to understand why you would have such a problem with an independent developer creating an iPhone application for the site. I certainly wouldn't have a problem with someone creating a Symbian application, even though I'm a WinMob user at present!

---

Back to the topic itself:

I believe that an application would actually drive traffic to the site. Not, perhaps, from mobile devices, but the more people who know about the site through the publicity generated by a good quality application, the more people would visit it from a PC - more advertising revenue on a per-view/per-click basis.

In addition, if a "donation" link was included, perhaps the moneys raised could be split between the developer and the site? I don't see it as a way to make money, but it would probably help cover the data costs generated by the iPhone app's traffic (which would not

kurtis5561 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2008 at 8:23am:

Why? What makes iPhone users think they are a cut above the rest where they need their special own program? I don't see the Windows Mobile users asking for one. So what makes the iPhone so special?

I am sorry you don't want this application however the API will open up the information to specified developers so plugins to skype, outlook, firefox and applications for iPhone, windows mobile, symbian,and java, widgets for dashboard, gadgets for sidebar, and web mashups can be developed all enhancing the sites community, and use meaning that they will make more by donations and have more visitors to the site eventually clicking links.


Quote:

I for one disagree with this idea, and good on the site owner making his database private.

I think your comment is short sighted and spiteful, designed only to provoke and I don't see why you feel this way as no one is proposing any thing which affects the site negatively.

kurtis5561 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2008 at 8:23am:

Why? What makes iPhone users think they are a cut above the rest where they need their special own program? I don't see the Windows Mobile users asking for one. So what makes the iPhone so special?

I disagree as we get numerous requests for Windows app's access, most of them for individuals own ends & not for legitimate development.

See previous requests & the replies in the How Can We Improve SayNoTo0870 - Part2 thread at the top of this forum.

Reasons for restrictions are fairly obvious but if you require further amplification on this or anything associated, all enquiries should please be made direct to the site administrator, Forum Admin.

unknowndomain wrote on Aug 15^th, 2008 at 11:30am:

I am sorry you don't want this application however the API will open up the information to specified developers so plugins to skype, outlook, firefox and applications for iPhone, windows mobile, symbian,and java, widgets for dashboard, gadgets for sidebar, and web mashups can be developed all enhancing the sites community, and use meaning that they will make more by donations and have more visitors to the site eventually clicking links.

No it won't people will just use the sidebar gadget or similar and not visit the site, Maybe someone will inplement the API to their site passing the whole database off as their own.

Why should the site owner pay for bandwith for visitors his site isn't even receiving? That will more than likely destroy the community


Quote:

I think your comment is short sighted and spiteful, designed only to provoke and I don't see why you feel this way as no one is proposing any thing which affects the site negatively.

It will effect the site as people won't bother visiting this site they will either use a 3rd party access tool or site, You have even thought of plans to market the product for finacial gain.

I am not being spiteful, I have seen across the internet iPhone users saying we need iPhone apps because the iPhone is the only phone to feature applications, it annoys me, sorry if I caused offence, but 98.7% of all iPhone users need to grow up.

Okay I don't understand why you feel that because one iPhone user you met somewhere is an idiot means that all iPhone users are the same, claiming 98.7% need to grow up is a ridiculous statement and again only goes to cause offence.

If we can keep objective, I want the application for my own personal use, I.e. to save my monthly O2 bill as we all know that the phone networks don't include 08 numbers in your inclusive minutes.

I proposed that myself and one other do the bulk of the work, asking for the site owners permission was not just a curtsy but a necessity as I didn't want to violate the owners copyright or cause unnecessary load scraping their server.

I am investigating this for the community because if I was only working on this for my own benefit I would just go ahead and write the app which scrapes the screen and only use it my self, not sharing with others which is what I want to do.

While I can understand the need for security which is why the API like most would require a secret key for access embedded in the iPhone application it would be hard for others to access the code, and would be something which could easily be changed with each new release, or could be a code generated using other information or additionally requiring users to sign up to the service.

The API should not as you have highlighted by a public free for all service otherwise clone sites would appear and that would affect the community, this site has something no other has, a good and known brand, a full database and a community.

The suggestion that I want to make financial gain from this application is stupid, no offence to the site owner but this site is very clearly here to make money at least for the hosting if nothing else, and why not but I personally do not want to make money out of this application, I would offer it free of charge and if the site owner wished a pay pal link would be possible, the cost of developing this app is low but to put it on the App Store would cost me money, which I am willing to pay to get this app out there.

I don't want to continue this argument, its pointless, we know your against the idea and I am for it, the argument is simply descending into spiteful comments and is unproductive, we shall wait and see what the site owner says, if he declines I will work on an application for my own use which scrapes the site, thus not causing any loss to him. I am just looking to share what I do with the community in a way which doesn't affect the owners copyright.

I actually had a free iPhone app "In Review" on the App Store, but it got rejected because it was "circumventing carrier policies". It was originally developed for my own use, but then had a number of friends asking me to release it.

I've got screenshots on my Flickr page here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/simonmaddox/sets/72157606293730652/

Looked through a whole load of posts about whether I could use SayNoTo0870 for this, but I didn't seem to find anything conclusive for or against it.

well thanks very much apple for thinking different for a change. It did occour to me that this might be an issue but it's totally unfair.

I guess a web app it is then.

I still think there should be a mobile version of this site, which was promised a long time ago, but was never forthcoming. It should be based on mobile web standards and cater for as wide a range of phones as possible. Proper WAP support it important, and should be an option for everyone regardless of what their phone supports, as it's much more compact so will save bandwidth costs for people on PAYG - after all, this is a site for people wanting to save the pennies, so not everyone will be paying £40/month or whatever it is for unlimited internet access on an iPhone.

I have long suspected there isn't a WAP version because it wouldn't make money through AdSense ads in the way the website does. However, there is now "AdSense for Mobile", which even seems to support WAP, so that isn't even an excuse.

I think the iPhone owners have got a bit carried away.

As for what's been shown so far, my understanding is that Cupertino and Glendale and the other places are in California. Maybe a bit more writing software than copying pictures (which I notice are about 150 kilobytes each) ...

It  may surprise the iPhone fans, but there are other phones with data facilities on them, and even on the other main networks! And it's already possible to view a webpage to do a search of the database here. It's even possible to copy a number off the page (though not in full when I did it earlier)

But even though for example the OperaMini browser works pretty well ( and only uses a few k of data - please note), I agree with the last post that a simple page for wap browsers would help the most people. Not everyone is on O2, and not all of those have an iPhone.

But, without me knowing what the problems are, clearly so far nobody has managed to come up with a method that satisfies the concerns of the site owner here.

Perhaps the amateur iPhone application writers should save their bandwidth-wasting or carrier policy circumventing skills for other projects.

I think everyone has missed the point, we/I simply want permission and access to the site to create an app my self, I don't expect the site owner to do this work for me, however its obvious that apple are not going to allow such an app on their site, so its pointless, but I would like to offer my services in helping to get some kind of mobile site up and running for all phones, as google now has a mobile phone ads option.

I can code PHP, MySQL, HTML, CSS and I would like to work with you on this!

The owner of this site is very reluctant to allow anyone to use the data, in part because he generates revenue from the adverts on the site. Unfortunately, the site has changed very little, if at all, over the last few years, and there seems to be little interest in his improving it or producing a mobile version, despite there being a lot of expertise among the members and plenty of people willing to do the work for free. Your best bet is to contact the owner (user "Forum Admin") directly.

The second, very valid point in my opinion is that it's better to develop a service using web standards, rather than producing an application that's limited to one proprietary platform (the iPhone). Maybe you didn't really mean you wanted something for the iPhone specifically, but it's worrying enough if people now use "iPhone app" as if it were a generic term for "mobile website".

Well an open API (which is what unknowndomain is asking for) would most likely be implemented in a web standard (XML, HTTP etc), leaving developers of all sorts to create mobile apps connecting to the database if they have a key granted by the owner.

I work in mobile software development and there is no mobile technology that works on all mobile devices, it's not the same as the computer world. WAP works on quite a few phones (certainly not all) but it's not a great user experience to say the least, mobile Java works on many handsets but not iPhone and not Android ones. iPhone, Android and Windows mobile are all there own platforms. But crucially developing something on iPhone does not prevent you then developing something on another platform too.

I really sympathise unknowndomain, I too attempted to contact the owner (about developing a mobile java) version but just received no reply.

The simple fact is that things move on and if the owner is stuck in the web 1.0 world of not opening up, not sharing and not improving the site, eventually it'll get taken over by something else. Not stepping up to these challenges is a shame and I think a betrail of all the people who have put there own effort into researching the numbers.

I'm not sure how easy it would be to research a new database of numbers but I'm going to give it a go anyway.

BTW Apple refusing to load that app is scary and does highlight a major problem with the iPhone apps model - the ability of Apple to dictate what applications people should be allowed to load on to their phone, shame that this time they came down on the sides of 0870 providers rather than the consumer.

sorry but I just read this:

Quote:

Perhaps the amateur iPhone application writers should save their bandwidth-wasting or carrier policy circumventing skills for other projects.

'bandwidth-enhacing' would be more accurate - the saynoto0870 web page contains a whole lot more data than an API would and that's not even including the images that the web page comes with.

compare this (which is what an open API might present):

<resp>
  <t>company name</t>
  <n>0870123123</n>
  <n>0207123123</n>
</resp>

to the source of this web page (go ahead and look - view, page source)

and as for
Quote:

carrier policy circumventing skills

I suppose that's a joke because in it's original context this entire 0870 web site would be classed as carrier poilicy circumvention.

I'm really shocked at how negative the responses have been to someone willing to donate their time to increasing the number of people who can benefit from this site, surely that's what we all want - as many people as possible to use alternatives to 0870 numbers?

eric_donovan wrote on Nov 13^th, 2008 at 2:56pm:

sorry but I just read this: Quote: Perhaps the amateur iPhone application writers should save their bandwidth-wasting or carrier policy circumventing skills for other projects. 'bandwidth-enhacing' would be more accurate - ... and as for [quote]carrier policy circumventing skills

I suppose that's a joke because ...
[/quote]

I'll explain my two remarks, as you've apparently missed how they relate to some of the content of the thread.

The example given shows image that contain place names in California, and the data sizes are 150k and 200k.

I know nothing of writing iPhone applications, but on that evidence it's fair to wonder how much this person knows either; it certainly is not a preliminary sample of the proposed application in action, and if simple images like that use that much data, one wonders how efficient the thing would be written for someone without inclusive data.

The remark about circumventing carrier policy is a direct quote of Apple declining to carry an author's product. If you think the comment is a joke, perhaps you might start correspondence to make those views known to Apple.

I think this subject is getting rather silly, I posted up some mock-up images to share, 150k where that came from I don't know but the amount of text being transferred would be in the bytes range not the kilobytes range, so there is no need to worry there, and even if Apple say no to a native app we could still develop a web app for the iphone which would be mostly css and would require a single gif image 1px wide by 20-30 px high in b&w to get the nice bar across the top hardly a high resouloution image. The rest is CSS.

Anyway I have given up asking the site owner for permission and have moved on to other things this is not really up for discussion any more, the answer is the site owner doesn't care and I am fed up of trying to convince people that this is a good idea, clearly no one wants such an application so there we go.

unknowndomain wrote on Nov 13^th, 2008 at 4:07pm:

... and I am fed up of trying to convince people that this is a good idea, clearly no one wants such an application so there we go.

One of the problems was talking about it as if only iPhone owners counted, which is what caused some other people to take umbrage

Does the iPhone have a web browser? Then look at this website using it. Can a number on a webpage be clicked on and directly dialled? Then do so. If not, get Apple to work on the suggestion, as other phones can.

In other words, for people with suitable phones and inclusive data packages, the capability is already there. It would be more generous to develop a stripped down wap version for basic phones and people who don't want to spend loads on data. But even then there are other issues already pointed out.

Well funnily enough I was suggesting that a version for the iphone be built, and thus for all phones which was a stripped down version as we discovered we could not build the app , however no one was interested they are all just ******* bitching about stuff with out reading.

andy9 wrote on Nov 13^th, 2008 at 4:02pm:

The remark about circumventing carrier policy is a direct quote of Apple declining to carry an author's product. If you think the comment is a joke, perhaps you might start correspondence to make those views known to Apple.

Good God man! I don't know how I can explain it any more simply, but I'll humour you just this once.

I realize it was Apple who originally accused the author of "carrier policy circumventing", by repeating it you appear to be agreeing with Apple. Let me translate for you because I think you've misunderstood what it means:

carrier - this is US speak for network operator i.e. companies like Vodafone, Orange and especially O2
policy - the policy that these companies have of charging you 20p per minute for calling 0800 numbers
circumventing - encouraging users to dial geographical numbers instead

"carrier policy circumventing" is the whole point of this very web site.

Apple does not want to upset O2 or any other carrier by allowing the author's iPhone application because it could reduce the amount of revenue that O2 gets and O2 might get cross and not like the iPhone anymore. That's why I assumed it was your joke to repeat it, but hey, you're perfectly within your rights to agree with Apple or O2 for that matter.


Quote:

Perhaps the amateur iPhone application writers should save their bandwidth-wasting or carrier policy circumventing skills for other projects.

Quote:

The example given shows image that contain place names in California, and the data sizes are 150k and 200k.

You don't understand. It's not your fault, you're not a developer. The size of an image of an application has absolutely nothing to do with what size it actually is or how it functions. It's really like saying "that picture of that cake's big, it must have loads of calories in it".

One of the main advantages of applications versus web pages is that the bandwidth used is typically less. Any images needed for the functioning of the application are included within the application itself and downloaded at install time. Subsequent to that, there is no need to continually download the same images as you typically do in a web page, all the application needs to function is the raw data - no more than a few bytes for each phone number request. So you see actually the complete opposite of bandwidth wasting.

I hope that has cleared up a few things, but to be honest the message is loud and clear - no thanks to any site improvements or additions unless it is actually done by the owner, who appears not to be interested. Shame.

eric_donovan wrote on Nov 13^th, 2008 at 2:28pm:

Well an open API (which is what unknowndomain is asking for) would most likely be implemented in a web standard (XML, HTTP etc), leaving developers of all sorts to create mobile apps connecting to the database if they have a key granted by the owner.

Of course an open API would be ideal. But there's little chance of that happening, as you realise.


eric_donovan wrote on Nov 13^th, 2008 at 2:28pm:

I work in mobile software development and there is no mobile technology that works on all mobile devices, it's not the same as the computer world. WAP works on quite a few phones (certainly not all) but it's not a great user experience to say the least, mobile Java works on many handsets but not iPhone and not Android ones. iPhone, Android and Windows mobile are all there own platforms. But crucially developing something on iPhone does not prevent you then developing something on another platform too.

What phones doesn't WAP work on (other than ones so old they don't support any sort of mobile web at all)?

I'm on PAYG, and have an old phone that supports WAP. When I'm on the move, I don't care about "user experience". I only use the web (or the phone for that matter) in an emergency. My priority is not to spend money on bandwidth - at 0.5p/kB, a page doesn't have to be very large before querying the database would wipe out the saving of using a geographical number! I also need something that produces the page server-side. Of course, I could do that given an open API. But then, I could do it now from the web version as long as I kept it private and for my own use...


eric_donovan wrote on Nov 13^th, 2008 at 2:28pm:

I'm not sure how easy it would be to research a new database of numbers but I'm going to give it a go anyway.

Good luck with this. I'll look forward to seeing it. If nothing else, it'll show what would be possible with this site if it were developed.

eric_donovan wrote on Nov 13^th, 2008 at 11:20pm:

You don't understand. It's not your fault, you're not a developer. The size of an image of an application has absolutely nothing to do with what size it actually is or how it functions. It's really like saying "that picture of that cake's big, it must have loads of calories in it".

Oh, what a wonderful cheap thrill you must have got from writing that superbly smug slap-down.

The picture of the supposed application in action has place names such as Cupertino in it. Yes, some of us are aware of a certain well-known company coming from that area.

In other words, it is not a sample from a working program by the person posting it, or if it is, it certainly has nothing to do with the declared purpose of looking up alternates for UK phone numbers.

And I'm quite aware of ways to reduce data use, thank you. I and others suggested one. You may think WAP prehistoric, but it works.

You've missed the point about image size; over 500k of images were put on a forum thread a fraction of that size, which might be inconsiderate while some people still read it via slower connections. Other image formats use less data; one inefficient choice may indicate an inclination not to optimise other details.  

Perhaps one of the software fiends with rather better developed interpersonal skills might explain a couple of things to us mere mortals.

I assume that the phrase page-scraping refers to downloading a web page, then software parsing through all the code to find the wanted details, the second part a process that the human eye and brain are actually much better adapted to. Intuitively, it seems it must still involve the cost of data of the whole page, unless some intermediate proxy server is used for data compression, so I don't see it having significant advantages over just using a web browser; the user still has to enter a number somewhere ...

On the other hand, if a query can be sent to the database and get only just the data required, much of the work is done on the server feeding the website. But the potential problems include that this could expose it to badly written queries that could introduce bugs and even crash the whole system, taking the website off the air.

So obviously careful vetting of applicants would be essential. What references can we see so far, that would create confidence in the quality of the software, and likelihood to respect licence conditions? A half-plagiarised cut-and paste image of what might be a directory enquiries application for halfway round the world, someone who's been rejected by Apple for failing to support terms and conditions of contracts they have with other parties, a series of veiled threats to connive at nicking the data anyway, either here or from other sources, loads of patronising insults, etc. No wonder DaveM could not keep the word chancer from springing to mind.

thanks for the laugh andy9. you're a great guy :)

jrawle wrote on Nov 14^th, 2008 at 12:03am:

What phones doesn't WAP work on (other than ones so old they don't support any sort of mobile web at all)?

I suppose I was more thinking of the phones that are not setup to use WAP (operator settings are sometimes not installed by default, with PAYG you often have to ask the network to turn it on manually) You've obviously managed to sort it out, but it's enough to make most(?) people just give up. Anyway that would impact all mobile platforms not just WAP so you're right.

I'm not anti WAP - I think it would be a great step forward for this site if they got round to implementing it.

eric_donovan wrote on Nov 14^th, 2008 at 12:30pm:

I suppose I was more thinking of the phones that are not setup to use WAP (operator settings are sometimes not installed by default, with PAYG you often have to ask the network to turn it on manually) You've obviously managed to sort it out, but it's enough to make most(?) people just give up. Anyway that would impact all mobile platforms not just WAP so you're right.

Too true! I can't help but laugh when someone is after a train time or football results for whatever, and I say why not look it up on your phone? They claim their flashy up-to-the-minute phone doesn't let them use the internet, which is obviously rubbish.

But then, it isn't in the interests of the operators to make it easy to use mobile internet. They would rather people call 08 numbers or use premium-rate text services to find the information they want, for obvious reasons!

jrawle wrote on Nov 14^th, 2008 at 3:27pm:

But then, it isn't in the interests of the operators to make it easy to use mobile internet. They would rather people call 08 numbers or use premium-rate text services to find the information they want, for obvious reasons!

I don't think many users would see these as mutually exclusive choices, or necessarily their most likely use

On a lot of recent phones, inserting a different SIM causes settings to be downloaded automatically, though some phones have this deactivated in customised software for the supplying network. And on others, some SIM cards bring up a screen asking if you want settings sent to you.

And the networks are promoting internet access on mobiles more and more, with either free or cheap add-ons.

I'd love to see this get a release.

I was also looking forward someone can develop a app on iphone ,
but actually, it is not necessary to do that, at least not necessary ask for the datebase from the owner of the site.

we can simply visit this site through safari, we save it as our favrioute website, when we find out the alternative number,simply click on the no. , iphone will call the no. that you want to call.

I'm the iPhone app developer for "UK Numbers" - http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=288301623&mt=8

I'd be happy to add an 0870 number lookup if the site providers can either provide a database or API lookup.

I've had quite a few emails from users asking for this.

Hi there. Just to say I've nearly finished my iPhone app that uses all the data from the site.

Start the app, key in the number you want (ie, the 0870 number) it brings up an alternative. You tap it and the phone dials it. Simple.

It will be available shortly and will cost 59p.

Cheers,
Chris.

Well, first off well done for getting this far Chris I am interested to see some screen shots, I hope Apple approve it because the last guy got turned down.

I have a few concerns which I hope you have already addressed with the site owner.

The site owner holds copyright on the database which he has collected, this means that reproducing the data requires permission and using his site uses bandwidth which he has to pay for so charging for using his database is not only illegal its also pretty immoral.

I have and am on the side of wanting a iPhone app in fact apps for all platforms but I will not break the law or use other peoples data without permission to do so.

I am making the assumption you have not spoken to the site owner, as I have found it impossible to get hold of him, of which on that matter I would appreciate it if the site owner would contact me as he has been ignoring my attempts to email/pm him and I would like to discuss a few ideas I have had and would like to offer help, I am a capable PHP programming and a graduate 2:1 in graphic design: new media.

Email me@unknowndomain.co.uk