See also the FOI thread on Norfolk County Council.

The contact page lists a whole host of 0844 numbers charged at 5 pence per minute at all times. At the bottom it says:


Quote:

0844 numbers and the reason why we use them To demonstrate fair and equitable service to all callers, Norfolk County Council implemented a set of 0844 numbers. One of the benefits is that every caller, at any time of day, irrespective of location, will pay exactly the same for a landline call to our 0844 numbers. The charge is 5p per min from all STD codes (based on BT as a provider, other operators and mobile charges may vary). While our costings are based on BT costs, we are unable to take into account all the many different landline operators. The other option available to offer a fair and equitable service was for Norfolk County Council to implement an 0845 number. However, 0845 numbers are revenue generating and, based on our 2004 call volumes, this would have cost Norfolk County Council £1.8 million.

Callers will obviously pay the same to call 01603 numbers regardless of location, at any time of day.

I cannot understand the last bit which is complete jibberish:

"The other option available to offer a fair and equitable service was for Norfolk County Council to implement an 0845 number. However, 0845 numbers are revenue generating and, based on our 2004 call volumes, this would have cost Norfolk County Council £1.8 million."

It seems they are saying that 0845 numbers are revenue generating and that their use would mean it would cost £1.8 million.  :-? :o

So, if 0845 are "revenue sharing", what are 0844?  ::) ::)

Oh the irony. The original trading standard guidelines on the wording used for 08xx numbers comes from Norfolk Trading Standards eg 'regardles of location' rule.

So the guidleslines taken up by trading standards all over the country which origniates from Norfolk Trading Standards is being broken by Norfolk CC.

I'm going away so can't follow this one up, but they need hammering over this. Talk about left hand not knowing what right hand is doing.

Can someone else action please. The guidelines can easily be found using google from many counties, but best to email them the link to their own site  ;D

Quote:

The other option available to offer a fair and equitable service was for Norfolk County Council to implement an 0845 number. However, 0845 numbers are revenue generating and, based on our 2004 call volumes, this would have cost Norfolk County Council £1.8 million.

Perhaps this is indicative of BT prices for 0845 numbers. According to BT's website [url=here, incoming call charges for BT 0845 service is 3.48 pence per minute with a monthly charge of £10.

It still works out very high, even if we assume 50 0845 numbers.

The point is that this is just ridiculous! The contract should be put out to tender and any right thinking person knows, revenue is available, thus there is no need to pay if they shopped around.

Indeed.  Ever since Freeserve launched, people have known that companies can earn money from 0845 calls, in that case enough to support an ISP (and spawn a whole new industry of copycats).  That BT still charges so much to receive calls shows just how many organisations don't bother shopping around.  

Can I offer an interpretation based on a truth that we all know.

Call type "g6" (5p per minute) 0844 numbers are "revenue generating", whereas the revenue share on 0845 numbers only generates a subsidy (that offsets the cost incurred in using 03xx).

I think the author of the statement in question made a typo at the beginning and then lost their thread in completing the point, by failing to reintroduce 0845 as the subject of the second clause - perhaps it should read as follows (extended for clarity):

"However 0844 numbers are revenue generating, and, based on our 2004 call volumes, using a 0845 number would have cost Norfolk County Council £1.8 million in lost additional revenue that was earned from callers."

Goodness knows what a switch to 03xx would do to the Council Tax!

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Aug 12^th, 2008 at 7:31am:

Call type "g6" (5p per minute) 0844 numbers are "revenue generating", whereas the revenue share on 0845 numbers only generates a subsidy (that offsets the cost incurred in using 03xx).

That's not true as service providers receive revenue payments on 0845. West Midlands Police receives £24k per anum.

On 1 July Norfolk County Council switched its 0844 numbers to 0344 ones. See contact page.

With Norwich City Council due to do the same soon, the two main councils in Norfolk have abandoned their premium telephone numbers. Will Norfolk Constabulary do the same?

Dave wrote on Jul 4^th, 2009 at 2:32am:

On 1 July Norfolk County Council switched its 0844 numbers to 0344 ones. See contact page. With Norwich City Council due to do the same soon, the two main councils in Norfolk have abandoned their premium telephone numbers. Will Norfolk Constabulary do the same?

Every opportunity must be taken to use these two "repenting sinners" as examples to others.

The description of the calling costs on the contact us by phone page is a little wordy in the completeness of its reassuring explanation.

Quote:

How much does it cost to call an 0344 number? 0344 numbers are charged for just like 01 and 02 numbers. For example, if your landline or mobile phone package means you can call an 01 or 02 number as part of ‘free’ inclusive minutes, the same will apply to calling our 0344 numbers. If your phone package means you pay a particular charge to call an 01 or 02 number, then you will pay no more than that to call us.

http://www.norfolk.gov.uk/consumption/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&ssDocName=NCC069817&ssSourceNodeId=&ssTargetNodeId=3018

One digit change for Norfolk County Council public phone numbers

13 July 2009

A small change in Norfolk County Council's main public phone numbers will mean more small change in the pockets of many callers.

All of the county council's 0844 numbers are changing to become 0344 numbers, with the new numbers already operating alongside the old ones. The change has been made after people told the council they couldn't make use of free minutes on their mobile and landline packages when ringing the old 0844 numbers. Because 0344 numbers are charged at the same rate as numbers starting in 01 and 02, people who have free minutes to these numbers as part of their phone package will now be able to call the council for free. People who pay to ring 01 and 02 numbers will pay no more than their usual rate to ring the new 0344 numbers.

When making this change, Norfolk County Council moved onto a different phone contract and it is expected this new deal will save the council £30,000 a year in telephone costs.

Tony Williams, Cabinet Member for Corporate and Commercial Services at Norfolk County Council, said: “We listen to the feedback we receive from people and continuously examine the way we do things so that we can make sure we are providing good value for money for the people of Norfolk. Here's an excellent example of why it's so important to do this, with savings being made for many callers and £30,000 annual savings for the council which will help us keep our part of the council tax charge as low as possible.”

The only change to the county council's 0844 numbers is to the start, from 0844 to 0344 - the rest of the numbers will stay the same. From this week, the new numbers will be promoted in a countywide marketing campaign including press and radio adverts and the Norfolk County Council website and BT directory enquiries are already updated with the new 0344 numbers. The new numbers are also listed in Your Norfolk, the county council's publication which will be distributed to people's homes from today (13 July).

The 0844 numbers will continue to run alongside the new numbers for at least a year and people using the 0844 numbers will be given the opportunity to redial the new 0344 version in order to make potential savings or can choose to stay on the line.

Norfolk County Council's phone number for general enquiries is now 0344 800 8020 and phone lines are open 8am to 6pm Monday to Friday. For a full list of county council telephone numbers by department, visit the 'Contact us' page of the Norfolk County Council website at www.norfolk.gov.uk.

-ends-

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So by abandoning revenue sharing numbers, the council saves £30,000 a year. Is this a sign of previous incompetence when the 0844 numbers were introduced which allowed the council's telephone provider to profiteer?

Dave wrote on Jul 20^th, 2009 at 4:41pm:

So by abandoning revenue sharing numbers, the council saves £30,000 a year. Is this a sign of previous incompetence when the 0844 numbers were introduced which allowed the council's telephone provider to profiteer?

If someone has a time machine and the resources to undertake the necessary investigation into the conduct of this particular body, it is possible that an answer to that question could emerge. This is certainly unusual, but I would look for the bright side.

If this provides positive hype, showing that good deals can be obtained on the provision of 03 numbers, then let us celebrate that.

Most public bodies are doubtless losing millions of pounds as a result of poor procurement practices on some contracts, whilst saving similar amounts through good procurement on others. Being a firm believer in c**k-up over conspiracy, I see no particular reason to suggest that a particular type of telephone number is likely to make any difference whatsoever.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 20^th, 2009 at 9:57pm:

Dave wrote on Jul 20th, 2009 at 4:41pm: So by abandoning revenue sharing numbers, the council saves £30,000 a year. Is this a sign of previous incompetence when the 0844 numbers were introduced which allowed the council's telephone provider to profiteer? If someone has a time machine and the resources to undertake the necessary investigation into the conduct of this particular body, it is possible that an answer to that question could emerge. This is certainly unusual, but I would look for the bright side.

There are possible reasonable explanations because they said that they moved to a new phone contract. Such a move could result in savings elsewhere to which this may be referring.

We are speculating in previous postings, quite validly on an important issue, on the possible basis for this saving and the earlier apparent overspending and waste of taxpayers money, but what we need is solid information.    

I suggest that we write to Norfolk County Council and ask for an explanation.   Alternatively we should ask the Audit Office to investigate.

loddon wrote on Jul 21^st, 2009 at 7:32am:

... what we need is solid information.     I suggest that we write to Norfolk County Council and ask for an explanation.   Alternatively we should ask the Audit Office to investigate.

Information is always helpful, but there is rather a lot of it that could be found, and so one has to choose what is likely to be of value.

If we do find that NCC could have got its 0844 number more cheaply from another provider originally, how does that help the cause?

An investigation would be likely to find that a new contract for the 0844 numbers would have been much cheaper than the 03 numbers. Where would that leave us?

Is this not a matter for the people of Norfolk, who may be concerned about other larger clearer examples of overspending in other areas?

I say "03 does not have to be more expensive" is the line to follow.