This is only a proposal and has not been approved or reviewed by the site admin yet

I have been in contact with the site administrator, and it seems that as I suspected he is very busy and has not been able to give his full attention to the site, I have said that I would work on some site redesigns and logo re-branding, and I wanted to share my solutions so far with you guys and see what you think...

First for the logo, I have tried to keep the existing colour scheme and obviously the name is there still too, however I have explored the idea of using an icon to make the site more recognisable.

This is a few of the final logo's I produced...

http://dropbox.unknowndomain.co.uk/saynoto0870.png

As you can see they all use visual language to communicate the sites name, and the idea would be that only when your not on the site would you see the words say no to 0870 printed (with or without the logo).

It draws on the ideas of a speed sign, no smoking sign and a speech bubble to create what should be a quite easy to understand logo.

The logo lacks wording and is therefore reinforced by the title and url of the page but would only be used as an icon on the website, else where it would be used with type next to it stating the site name.

I then took a look at the site structure, its very cluttered, the advertising is not effective because it links to sites which advertise the opposite of what this site is about.

Better targeted adverts in fewer places but better placed will help the site pay for its running.

This is my proposal for the new decluttered home page...

http://dropbox.unknowndomain.co.uk/desktop-browser.png

As you can see everything is cleared away and there is a search box on the home page reducing the amount of clicks to get to information and making the site easier to use, also by default only one box is shown, by using smart processing in the background it will search for numbers if numbers are entered and companies if letters are entered.

You can see the redesigned favicon also...

http://dropbox.unknowndomain.co.uk/favicon.png

It uses a square version of the icon which is better suited to the tiny 16x16 pixel image that a favicon is.

Another thing the site owner is keen to get done is the mobile versions, and with the recent announcment of a iPhone app its clear the site needs to provide such a option for all mobile users...

WAP versions will only allow searching and will have limited graphics to improve speed, only one graphic on the front page to brand it and then again a smaller graphic on the results.

Colour WAP phone:
http://dropbox.unknowndomain.co.uk/col-wap.png

B&W WAP phone:
http://dropbox.unknowndomain.co.uk/b&w-wap.png

WAP phone:
http://dropbox.unknowndomain.co.uk/wap-browser.png

The iPhone version will be slightly different as it has a banner ad and would be formatted for the iPhone display but essentially the same.

http://dropbox.unknowndomain.co.uk/iphone-browser.png

As before these are only mock ups and have not been seen or approved by the site admin so things may change but I wanted to get some feedback from other users on the proposal.

Logo 5 but with a clean circular red border instead of the half-hearted speech bubble.

Could you explain why your message making these proposals does not fit on my normal screen.   All the other messages on this Forum fit perfectly well.    What have you changed?

nothing has been changed its just that one of the images is a full screen mockup of the site so fitting a image of a whole browser inside another is not easy, there is no changes its just normal behavor or your computer to make scroll bars when things are too big and in this case they have to be to show the image.

I quite like logo 5 as it is. I think the speech bubble gives the impression of discussion about the issues involved, perhaps?

However, I think the website looks too "Google". While I agree that it is good to be able to easily look for numbers etc., the home page is a bit too plain for my liking.

I agree it looks too google but my housemates have said they really like the logo I know it may seem odd but sometimes in design you have to ignore the critasisms... The reason I say this is because some people will like it others not. We need to canvas more opinion but the speech bubble communicates the idea of speech against 0870

Not that I know anything about web designs, but would a coloured back ground look better, rather than the white?

One of the mAin issues is the yellow background and it's actually a slightly off white but if you suggest a colour I will have a go. It's about making it better for everyone. Not just me.  

As I said I am not an expert on this by any means, but when I look at various sites the ones that are bold look more inviting to me. I am not suggesting a deep colour but how about this colour just as an example? or maybe this one?. Just a couple of  ideas but perhaps it is not practical.

The current homepage is certainly too cluttered, and the navigation leading to both search and forums is not as obvious as it should be.

The Google ads at the top of the homepage and top of the search page are too intrusive.  They would be better off at the bottom.

I don't have a problem with having two search boxes, one for names (which might include digits), the other purely for phone numbers.

On the search results screen, I do think the 03 numbers should have their own column, as they are not treated the same as 01/02 numbers as far as "local" calls go.

In the navigation bar located above all pages of the forum, "search" should say "forum search". Add another link for "number search".

If the root page of the site is going to hold the "number search" function, make sure you set up a redirect from "/search.php" to "www.saynoto0870.com/" to preserve the functionality of all inbound links from other sites.

catj wrote on Jun 29^th, 2009 at 7:34pm:

On the search results screen, I do think the 03 numbers should have their own column, as they are not treated the same as 01/02 numbers as far as "local" calls go.

Why aren't they treated the same? I thought they were.

sherbert wrote on Jun 29^th, 2009 at 8:24pm:

catj wrote on Jun 29th, 2009 at 7:34pm: On the search results screen, I do think the 03 numbers should have their own column, as they are not treated the same as 01/02 numbers as far as "local" calls go. Why aren't they treated the same? I thought they were.

To be fair, 01/02 numbers aren't local calls anyway. 01/02/03 should all be charged at the same cost.

I think that the blurb (or an amended version) on the homepage could be moved to an 'about' page. In the early days of the site it was probably relevant because people didn't know about the topic.

But now people do and get directed here by others, possibly after getting a nasty surprise in their telephone bill.

So yes, the search box should be on the homepage, and the current search url should redirect to the new location.

Hey all this us some great work nice feedback. We will be working o. The mobile portal first then the main site so plenty of time for input.

One issue that demands serious consideration, especially if a re-launch (or something approaching it) is being reconsidered, is the name.

Ofcom proposals regarding 0870 come into effect on 1 August. It is highly likely that BT will revise its tariffs to charge for calls to 0870 numbers at the same rate as calls to geographic numbers. others may follow. BT has already anticipated this change by including 0870 calls in packages.

We do not yet know how widespread the changes will be, however a sizeable number of revenue sharing beneficiaries have already changed to 0871, 0844 etc. in anticipation of this change.

0870 used to be the most clearly recognisable point of the revenue sharing rip-off, however, partly due to the campaign associated with the site, that problem has been seen to have been addressed, although we do not yet know how effectively.

I would strongly advise that careful consideration be given to the focus of the site, in the light of these developments, before investing too much effort in a brand name that may not have the value that it once did.

The historic connection with "saynoto0870" must not be lost, however it is important that the site does not become seen to be irrelevant.

my opinion is to say as it is, me and my house mates spent a long time mulling a new name and got no where, thats 4 of us over 2/3 weeks

unknowndomain wrote on Jul 1^st, 2009 at 1:04am:

my opinion is to say as it is, me and my house mates spent a long time mulling a new name and got no where, thats 4 of us over 2/3 weeks

Others have done the same, with similar results. The question to be addressed is not about whether an obviously better name can be found (in the present situation) but to consider, or perhaps wait and see, how the present name will appear after the changes that will start to occur in August.

If there arises a public perception that "the 0870 problem" has been solved (which already exists to some degree following the BT move in January) then a re-launch under the present name, which ties all revenue sharing to one code, could be very difficult. If such a perception were to emerge then a relaunch with a new name would help to draw attention to the fact that the revenue sharing rip-off continues regardless.

Do not be surprised to find the phrase "say no to 0870" used in some form in headlines around the beginning of August when the tariff changes are announced. This will convey the message that customers of some telcos have no need to use the site.

With all due respect to the fine minds that have been heavily and intensively engaged on the problem of thinking of an alternative name, I urge all those with an appreciation of the commercial and marketing aspects of this issue to give some consideration to what may be required in the months to come.

Noting that BT will be removing the surcharge on 0870 calls for all of its customers (and others may well do the same), one may wish to consider how a relaunch of "saynoto0870" would appear in the context of items such as the January press release from BT - BT £24M giveaway helps 14m customers say no to 0870.

Quote:

[quote]On the search results screen, I do think the 03 numbers should have their own column, as they are not treated the same as 01/02 numbers as far as "local" calls go.

Why aren't they treated the same? I thought they were.[/quote]

For a package with 'free local calls' the 03 numbers will never be free, even when calling an 03 number for an establishment just down the road.


[Very odd. I posted this last night, but I don't see it today so I have reposted.]

catj wrote on Jul 1^st, 2009 at 3:20am:

For a package with 'free local calls' the 03 numbers will never be free, even when calling an 03 number for an establishment just down the road.

Never say "never". This issue is being addressed.

I like the ideas of the square(r) favicon and retaining the very strong concept of questioning / discussing which arises from the speech bubble.

I have been (am) out of touch with the developments that SCV mentions and hope that time until August this will give us a chance to add in further ideas .

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 1^st, 2009 at 1:01am:

One issue that demands serious consideration, especially if a re-launch (or something approaching it) is being reconsidered, is the name. […] 0870 used to be the most clearly recognisable point of the revenue sharing rip-off, however, partly due to the campaign associated with the site, that problem has been seen to have been addressed, although we do not yet know how effectively. I would strongly advise that careful consideration be given to the focus of the site, in the light of these developments, before investing too much effort in a brand name that may not have the value that it once did. The historic connection with "saynoto0870" must not be lost, however it is important that the site does not become seen to be irrelevant.

I think that, on balance, the name should stay as it is at the moment. The reputation of 0870 numbers have been tarnished by Saynoto0870 and we can see this in the fact that these numbers are now not being adopted in the way they once were.

0844 and 0845 are now the new 0870. Some have chosen to go with 0871.

The fact that the site is called "Saynoto0870" does not mean that people don't associate it with alternatives for other rip-off numbers beginning 0844, 0845 and 0871. For this reason, I feel that the name is widely recognised as being against all these numbers.



catj wrote on Jul 1^st, 2009 at 3:20am:

Quote: [quote]On the search results screen, I do think the 03 numbers should have their own column, as they are not treated the same as 01/02 numbers as far as "local" calls go. Why aren't they treated the same? I thought they were.

For a package with 'free local calls' the 03 numbers will never be free, even when calling an 03 number for an establishment just down the road.


[Very odd. I posted this last night, but I don't see it today so I have reposted.][/quote]
Your posting is still there and is on the first page of this thread.

Where packages offer free calls to local geographical numbers - which to my knowledge, is currently, only for some TalkTalk customers and those in Hull and Beverley whose incumbent provider is KC - users of this site will have to decide whether a given alternative is a within the scope of being local anyway.

So for any one individual, many 01/02 alternative numbers will not be local anyway.


It's worth emphasising that local and national calls cost the same with the vast majority of telephone tariffs anyway, and hence 03 numbers do. Those that have local calls charged at lower rates than national geographical and 03 calls are in the minority.

I recognise that I am in a minority, however I have serious concerns about the way in which the 0870 prefix is seen as emblematic of the issue that this site is seeking to address.

I do hope that those who are planning the marketing aspects of the re-branding exercise, rather than just the technical and design issues, are ready to deal with what will happen when BT and some others say no to 0870 (as a premium rate number) in August.

Some may think it acceptable for the Prime Minister to say that he meant zero point seven percent when he said zero percent, as it is for us to say that we mean 0844, 0845 (although with exceptions), 0871, 0872 and 0800 from mobiles and 03 (in certain very specific circumstances) when we say 0870.

Yes, this is problem of success; but that does not stop it being a problem. No, I have no alternative name to propose; but that alone does not mean that the issue does not need to be addressed. Let us wait to see if the logo of a number with a red line through it becomes part of the BT marketing - maybe BT would like to buy the site! This could be a great commercial opportunity; it may even be the big idea behind the rebranding and redesign.

An issue of some concern is the way that the forum is increasingly attracting postings from those with a commercial interest in the telecoms business. Many of them are allying themselves with the objectives of the site.

We are obviously happy to entertain all opinions and we cannot avoid discussing the merits and demerits of particular commercial offerings in their proper place. I am however unhappy when a particular business seeks to ally itself with the cause that the site promotes and thereby seek to promote itself.

As this thread is on the topic of branding, I feel that is is fair to question whether, as forum members with no commercial axe to grind, we are content for the SayNoTo0870 brand to become associated with commercial brands.

Furthermore on the topic of branding, there may be concern that SayNoTo0870 is happy for callers to misuse geographic numbers published for one clearly defined purpose as alternative to non-geographic numbers published for a different defined purpose. It has been reported that a service on a geographic number had to be withdrawn because of the level of abuse, some of which may have arisen from its publication as an alternative in the SayNo database. One could argue that we are fighting a war and therefore all is fair. Others would suggest that we are seeking to persuade, and improper action may reduce the chances of our reasonable arguments being granted a hearing.

I make these points having somewhat reluctantly, and perhaps improperly, risen to a challenge to defend SayNoTo0870 in the media recently. If the "brand" should become further tainted, this is something that I would not be prepared to do.

I really do not understand the point about "misuse" of a geographical number, in my opinion, the only "misuse" is of 084 & 087 numbers and if anyone can find a geographical alternative to these which can help others avoid being ripped off, I am totally in favour and I hope others are now actively seeking another alternative to be used!  The only recent reference I can think of where a number has been withdrawn is on the thread about HMRC etc, the ONLY misuse involved is the failure by this lot to remember they are PUBLIC SERVANTS and a government which is prepared, effectively, to charge its citizens twice for a public services (ie rob) - via taxation and premium rate telephone nos.

Thank you Barbara. This is exactly the type of debate that I hoped to stimulate. I hope you do understand the point I was making but disagree with the view that I express. I see use of a number declared as being for use by overseas callers for a domestic call to HMRC as misuse, however I also see use of revenue sharing numbers to save the taxpayer a penny or two at the expense of service users as misuse. I hope that others will contribute to a discussion that will help to establish where members stand on this point, so that I know clearly how to behave if called upon to represent their views in future.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Aug 5^th, 2009 at 6:45pm:

… I see use of a number declared as being for use by overseas callers for a domestic call to HMRC as misuse …

And what criteria do they use to determine that you are overseas? Let me guess, a UK CLI. As has been mentioned elsewhere on here, VoIP services are available with incoming UK 01/02/03 numbers, hence they might look like the call is coming from the UK.  ::)

Dave wrote on Aug 6^th, 2009 at 5:21am:

And what criteria do they use to determine that you are overseas?

In relation to the particular example of misuse being addressed here, I understand that some callers have been asked.

The point I raised was however only about the respective intentions, not about issues of enforcement relating to a particular example. The question of misuse is answered by whether the caller believes that they satisfy the specified criteria, not whether they think that a failure to meet the criteria could perhaps not be detected.

This, admittedly light-hearted, comment from a moderator does serve to imply that SayNoTo0870 is content for callers to misuse numbers if they can perhaps hope to be able to get away with it.

It is not for me to dictate what is right and wrong for the site, or what are legitimate campaign tactics. We all have different and perfectly valid views. I simply believe that we should all know where we stand on these issues, and establish what approach "the SayNoTo0870 brand" represents, in very general terms.

Sorry, SCV, I disagree with you aboslutely, fundamentally, totally.  I see no "misuse" whatsoever in using a "from abroad" line if the called organisation is immoral enough to charge a premium rate (indeed, my husband is doing this to another organisation on my behalf as I type!).  I consider any and every means of evading a premium rate tel no for whatever organisation is totally reasonable and, indeed, admirable, particularly if the means of evasion is posted to help others.  In my view, there is NEVER any justification for using any form of 087 or 084 number (090 for non-essentials such as silly competition lines and as people understand fully the implications and as it can be blocked is a different matter and, in my view, the only justifiable extra cost number).   The fact that some landline providers now include 0870 & 0845 in packages is totally irrelevant and just designed to confuse.

Thank you Barbara, these are the issues that I wanted us to bring out. You state the points on which we disagree very clearly.


Barbara wrote on Aug 6^th, 2009 at 9:39am:

... I see no "misuse" whatsoever in using a "from abroad" line if the called organisation is immoral enough to charge a premium rate ... I consider any and every means of evading a premium rate tel no for whatever organisation is totally reasonable and, indeed, admirable, particularly if the means of evasion is posted to help others. ... there is NEVER any justification for using any form of 087 or 084 number

I hope that other members will state their positions here with equal clarity, so that some idea of the position of the SayNoTo0870 brand can be established.

There is one further question and that is what do we term as "abuse" or "misuse" of geographical numbers given as alternatives?

The issue is being raised following the reports from people who called a geographical number listed in the database as being suitable for HMRC's child tax credit enquiries. These citizens were subject to an interrogation of their details before being told off for calling. A few weeks later, the number was discontinued.

We assume that the number has been changed, thereby causing inconvenience to legitimate "non-abusers" who will have to spend time seeking the new number. The pragmatic way forward would have been for them to request that we remove the geographical number in question from our listings. By responding in the way they did, it would appear that we are indeed at war.

A few years ago there was a number listed for the DVLA that was being bombarded. A request was made to remove it from SAYNOTO0870.COM which we did. This also shows the discontent at the use of these covert premium numbers.

Dave wrote on Aug 6^th, 2009 at 12:03pm:

There is one further question and that is what do we term as "abuse" or "misuse" of geographical numbers given as alternatives?

My original posting referred to misuse as being the use of a number for a purpose other than that advised.  I see no reason to go any further into definition in addressing this point with reference to the branding of SayNoTo0870, although the discussion could move on to also cover “abuse”.

I would suggest that abuse occurs when a geo number is called deliberately for the purpose of causing inconvenience (or worse) to the called party. This could be simply to express (justified) annoyance at the use of non-geographic numbers to any employee or agent of the organisation who happens to answer the call. Misuse of a number can lead on to another type of abuse – that of the caller or the person answering the call by the other, perhaps both. I hope that the SayNoTo0870 brand would wish to be seen to be doing all it can to prevent all such abuse, both in its general statements of policy and in its practice.

I regret the fact that we are now getting stuck in the history of particular cases that have been discussed separately, after the grounds for this general site-related discussion had been drawn. I had hoped to use an example as a “jumping off point” for a wider discussion, not for an extended analysis of points of detail that could more properly be conducted in the relevant thread.  I do hope that this thread will be blessed with many diverse expressions of opinion about the re-branding of SayNoTo0870.


On the relevant point of detail – let us forget these cases and refer to the advice on the Home Page of www.saynoto0870.com.


Quote:

Many companies advertise a separate number that can be used when calling from abroad - ... - There is nothing to stop you using this number from the UK

In these cases it is not the saynoto0870 database from which a number would have to be removed to prevent misuse! The highlighted phrase alleges a right, which represents a clear declaration of war against those who wish to offer a separate service to overseas callers. It is also an incitement to challenge a refusal to deal with a UK caller to the number.

Perhaps further contributors to the thread would like to offer their comments on this brand statement.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Aug 4^th, 2009 at 3:19pm:

Furthermore on the topic of branding, there may be concern that SayNoTo0870 is happy for callers to misuse geographic numbers published for one clearly defined purpose as alternative to non-geographic numbers published for a different defined purpose. It has been reported that a service on a geographic number had to be withdrawn because of the level of abuse, some of which may have arisen from its publication as an alternative in the SayNo database. One could argue that we are fighting a war and therefore all is fair. Others would suggest that we are seeking to persuade, and improper action may reduce the chances of our reasonable arguments being granted a hearing. I make these points having somewhat reluctantly, and perhaps improperly, risen to a challenge to defend SayNoTo0870 in the media recently. If the "brand" should become further tainted, this is something that I would not be prepared to do.

You  are raising deep questions about the purpose and basis for the existence of this website SCV.    I understand your reason to be that you invite input from other contributors to this Forum to help you formulate your responses to questions, which may come your way, which doubt the legitimate purpose of this website and even attack it for undermining the status quo and the stability and success of the telecommunications industry, leading to a loss of the moral fibre of this country, the rule of law, and ultimately the existence of a civilised society.   I see your motive as not to attack this site yourself but as seeking valid argument to justify the existence of this site and its actions.

The question you raise seems to me to beg a number of others;---

Why did this site come into existence in the first place?

Perhaps the original founders could/should answer this, but I would suggest that it was a natural and legitimate response to the existence of 08 numbers which are more expensive to call for everyday members of the public who want to avoid being ripped off by revenue sharing techniques and numbers which carry a premium rate.

It responds to the introduction of 08 numbers which some would say, and I wouldn’t disagree, have no other purpose than to generate more revenue for the telecomms industry, but do it in a way which abuses the trust and compliant nature of the British public..     All the facilities offered are also available using geographic numbers and therefore the only reason for the existence of 08 numbers is to enable higher prices to be charged and revenue to be shared with the owners of the 08 numbers.    

There is an ethical problem with 08 numbers however, in that the revenue sharing has not been openly declared or made well known to the public generally, and there has been a history of obfuscation and misinformation about the true cost to the public of calling these numbers.   Some companies and even government departments have gone to great lengths to hide their underlying geographic numbers, the IR now HMRC for example, and to prevent the public from finding them and using them while at the same time making geo numbers available to business and professional callers.   We know that these geo numbers work perfectly well because thousands of people call thousands of alternative numbers every day, and they work perfectly without detriment to the organisations or the public.   The public use them to avoid the higher cost of the 08 numbers.    Are the public “misusing” the alternative numbers?    

Companies and government departments have been persuaded into using 08 numbers by the telecomms industry firstly claiming that “intelligent network facilities” such as call routing, forwarding, queuing, monitoring and statistics are only available with 08 numbers, which is not true, and secondly by the offer of a small slice of the revenue , the share or bribe, which allows the telecomms industry to profiteer at the expense of a deceived and gullible public.    The users of this website are still very much a small minority are not gullible and refuse to be deceived or conned.

Are the public “misusing” all the geographic alternative numbers by using them?

We are playing a game, rather than fighting a war, even though we would prefer not to be, and the rules of the game have been established for some years.   The game is “find the alternative number”.    There is no legislation which prohibits such activity, nor which says that geo numbers are secret, nor which says they cannot be used by anybody.   This site exists to help people find these numbers and play the game.    Tax avoidance is legit, tax evasion is not.    It seems avoidance of revenue sharing rip-off numbers is legit, so people who wish to avoid the “tax” can legitimately do so if they have the wit and the will.   We can play the game quite legitimately.

Limit reached.  To be continued in next post.

(Continued from previous post)



So if HMRC decide to impose, improperly, a “tax” on phone calls to their offices made by ordinary people and to discriminate against those people in favour of big business who do not have to pay the “tax” there seems to be something in natural law which says that this is fundamentally unfair.    Hence we campaign against this unfairness and in getting the “tax” removed, meanwhile people are free to play the game of phoning HMRC in any way which enables them to avoid this “tax” which itself is an abuse of their trust.   If HMRC find that volumes of calls are channelled in a way which does not suit them then this is a problem of their own making and it cannot be a misuse by the everyday public who are merely playing the game.

We are contesting an unfair system, in 08 numbers, which seeks to exploit, deceive and profiteer against the public.   It is for government and public services to ensure that this does not continue.   It is also for commerce and business to consider their own ethics, the image they are presenting and the goodwill of the public who they are trying to attract towards their own business, and to weigh up whether using 08 numbers improperly is not counter productive to their own business objectives, and that a more honest and straightforward approach might be better.   In other words, they should revert to normal geographic, or possibly 03, numbers.

HERE! HERE! Loddon, well said.

loddon wrote on Aug 6^th, 2009 at 5:00pm:

… If HMRC find that volumes of calls are channelled in a way which does not suit them then this is a problem of their own making and it cannot be a misuse by the everyday public who are merely playing the game.

loddon, I agree with all you say. Rightly or wrongly, in other areas such as the NHS, the principle of choice is being introduced. "Customer is king" and all, but HMRC is disjointed from this policy and, some might say, stuck in the past.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Aug 6^th, 2009 at 3:07pm:

On the relevant point of detail – let us forget these cases and refer to the advice on the Home Page of www.saynoto0870.com. Quote: Many companies advertise a separate number that can be used when calling from abroad - ... - There is nothing to stop you using this number from the UK In these cases it is not the saynoto0870 database from which a number would have to be removed to prevent misuse! The highlighted phrase alleges a right, which represents a clear declaration of war against those who wish to offer a separate service to overseas callers. It is also an incitement to challenge a refusal to deal with a UK caller to the number. Perhaps further contributors to the thread would like to offer their comments on this brand statement.

Organisations that use 08 NGNs often publish +441/+442 numbers for calling from overseas because the +448 number is not callable from such locations. The highlighted statement merely points out that a number written in international format (i.e. prefixed +44) can be called nationally from within the UK.

The vast majority of organisations aren't phased by callers from the UK using the "overseas" alternative. Hence this tip is good way of obtaining an alternative to get round the main revenue sharing number.

Dave wrote on Aug 7^th, 2009 at 2:30am:

this tip

Unfortunately, the terms in which this "tip" is expressed cause some to see it as an incitement to demand that in cases where the "overseas" number is directed to a special services team it may be fairly used for domestic calls. Other postings suggest that this is how it should be understood.

Clearly, where the number is a genuine alternative that routes to the same point it indeed provides an excellent means of avoiding premium charges.

There are cases where those receiving calls on numbers designed for one purpose are content to fulfil another, or forward the call. Where this occurs, it cannot be seen as "misuse" because the terms of use are effectively redefined by practice.

I am firmly opposed to inappropriate use of revenue sharing numbers, and see most of it as inappropriate under present circumstances, because there is no duty to declare the indirect commercial relationship between the caller and the called party that is created. There are particular cases where such a relationship is totally unacceptable. Despite this, and my efforts to instigate change, I have to disagree with the widely supported suggestion that all arms of all organisations that use revenue sharing numbers carry a responsibility for this impropriety and therefore have to duty to nullify its effects in any way that a caller may deem appropriate.

I see it as acceptable to politely and honestly seek to exploit the goodwill of someone who has been called on an inappropriate number - I do it frequently in the course of campaigning. Demanding exceptional treatment, as if of right, on account of a fully justified grievance with the organisation they represent, is quite different.