Hi All
Just used the site and called the HMRC TAx Credit helpline. After taking my details the operator advised that i had called on an international number and that he would not proceed with the call . He said people are using that number to circumvent the system  :-?.

My repeated attempts to even give  me a number/dept to whom i could write and  complain drew a blank. According to him its not a complaint as I was in the wrong !!!!!!

Have been trying the 0845 number and it keeps getting cut off as too many people are calling them

A Big boo hoo to them
SP

Write to your MP about this. They are getting more and more complaints from constituents.

pansa90 wrote on Jul 6^th, 2009 at 8:06pm:

Hi All Just used the site and called the HMRC Tax Credit helpline. After taking my details, the operator advised that I had called on an international number and that he would not proceed with the call . He said people are using that number to circumvent the system  :-?. SP

Did you preface your call with the caller-ID blocking code? That way, the idiots on the other end have no knowledge where you are calling from - and if they ask, just lie. Say 'France' or something!

mikeinnc wrote on Jul 7^th, 2009 at 8:14am:

Did you preface your call with the caller-ID blocking code? That way, the idiots on the other end have no knowledge where you are calling from - and if they ask, just lie. Say 'France' or something!

I hope the re-branding team have picked up on the fact that some see saynoto0870.com as being for use by burkha-wearing, queue-jumping liars to call idiots. Is this an impression to be encouraged or dispelled?

(By the way, whilst a number may be withheld, the location of the call may not)

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 7^th, 2009 at 8:37am:

mikeinnc wrote on Jul 7th, 2009 at 8:14am: Did you preface your call with the caller-ID blocking code? That way, the idiots on the other end have no knowledge where you are calling from - and if they ask, just lie. Say 'France' or something! I hope the re-branding team have picked up on the fact that some see saynoto0870.com as being for use by burkha-wearing, queue-jumping liars to call idiots. Is this an impression to be encouraged or dispelled? (By the way, whilst a number may be withheld, the location of the call may not)

Sorry SCV, I do not understand.   What does "......for use by burkha-wearing, queue-jumping liars to call idiots." mean?

How is the location revealed if the number is witheld?

pansa90 wrote on Jul 6^th, 2009 at 8:06pm:

Hi All Just used the site and called the HMRC TAx Credit helpline. After taking my details the operator advised that i had called on an international number and that he would not proceed with the call . He said people are using that number to circumvent the system  :-?. My repeated attempts to even give  me a number/dept to whom i could write and  complain drew a blank. According to him its not a complaint as I was in the wrong !!!!!! Have been trying the 0845 number and it keeps getting cut off as too many people are calling them A Big boo hoo to them SP

I have just rang the HMRC on an alternate number to 0845 300 3900 which is 01253 503333 Preston office, after i was held for approx 4 mins the lady took my details and then informed me rather abruptly that now she had my details it was noted that i had dialled through on a number that I shouldn't be using, I told her that I will not phone a 0845 number, she then said "it would be noted on my records that if I use that number again my call would be terminated".

biggerkev wrote on Jul 15^th, 2009 at 4:24pm:

I have just rang the HMRC on an alternate number to 0845 300 3900 which is 01253 503333 Preston office, after i was held for approx 4 mins the lady took my details and then informed me rather abruptly that now she had my details it was noted that i had dialled through on a number that I shouldn't be using, I told her that I will not phone a 0845 number, she then said "it would be noted on my records that if I use that number again my call would be terminated".

This is insane. Presumably the determination that you are not calling from an international location is based upon the CLI presentation. So, given that I live 4500 miles from the UK, and given that I can use a VOIP system which will present a UK number, one wonders whether I would get the same treatement, ie being told that I am not an international caller, purely on the basis of the CLIP. Perhaps I'll try it, although the absence of children probably negates the need to contact this body. I suppose that I could switch on the television or radio, and ask the operator to listen to the broadcast to try to establish that I really am calling from overseas. Insanity.

biggerkev wrote on Jul 15^th, 2009 at 4:24pm:

I have just rang the HMRC on an alternate number to 0845 300 3900 which is 01253 503333 Preston office, after i was held for approx 4 mins the lady took my details and then informed me rather abruptly that now she had my details it was noted that i had dialled through on a number that I shouldn't be using, I told her that I will not phone a 0845 number, she then said "it would be noted on my records that if I use that number again my call would be terminated".

Hi biggerkev,

Sorry to hear about thism but it is becoming more and more common for the state to treat citizens in this totally contemptuous manner.

May I suggest that you write to your MP about this, as well as local media. You can find out your MP's name by typing your post code into this page.

I have sent you a private message that you can read by clicking the "1 message" text just below the SAYNOTO0870.COM banner at the top of this page. Then click on the subject line to open up the message.

I have just rang this number 01355 359007 and was asked what number i was ringing and why, I said that I have been ringing the 0845 number and was fed up of getting to the end of the message and being cut off only to be charged again every time this happens. She told me that in future I must ring the 0845 number as this is a priority number for overseas but she will however deal with my query (must have been the end of a good day as she was fairly pleasant too!) Is there any way a message can be put along side these number informing others? I have only used this site a couple of times and so don't know how/if that will be possible.

I rang the 01355359007 number for child tax credits in Preston earlier this week, and had no problems whatsoever. Everything was dealt with in a perfectly normal manner, as has been the case each time I've used that number in the last 12 months.  

biggerkev wrote on Jul 15^th, 2009 at 4:24pm:

I have just rang the HMRC on an alternate number to 0845 300 3900 which is 01253 503333 Preston office, after i was held for approx 4 mins the lady took my details and then informed me rather abruptly that now she had my details it was noted that i had dialled through on a number that I shouldn't be using, I told her that I will not phone a 0845 number, she then said "it would be noted on my records that if I use that number again my call would be terminated".

Less than three weeks later, 01253 503333 is now not recognised. Perhaps they got fed up of all the calls coming to it from people getting the number from this website. Oh well, I've removed it from the database so they can use it again without those pesky citizens ringing up on it.  ;D

It could be worthwhile for someone to have a friendly word with HMRC about this matter. There are two separate points at issue here.

HMRC clearly wants to have numbers dedicated to particular functions. SayNoTo0870 wants to offer those who visit its website geographic alternative numbers. The two are presently operating at cross purposes.

There is a wider issue about the type of numbers that HMRC and other public services use, which will not be resolved swiftly. Putting that aside for the moment, could not a Sayno member approach HMRC to ask for some suitable alternatives that could be published in the database to help prevent misuse of published geographic numbers that is clearly causing a problem and forcing HMRC to withdraw services that are being abused. Such an approach would also help protect the reputation of Sayno, which probably presently stands accused of encouraging misuse of published numbers.

Source: Mail on Sunday

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1208437/Tax-credits-boss-orders-Keep-callers-line.html

Tax credits boss orders: Keep callers on the line

By Simon McGee, Mail on Sunday Reporter
Last updated at 1:12 AM on 23rd August 2009

Tax officials have secretly changed the way they run one of their 0845 advice helplines – raising costs for many callers and potentially netting the Government millions of pounds.

The HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) tax credits helpline on 0845 300 3900 is used by low-income families to secure Working Tax Credits and Child Tax Credits.

Handling 23million calls a year, it has already attracted controversy for costing callers using mobile phones up to 40p a minute, which critics warn hits vulnerable people.

[…]

Dave wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2009 at 9:02pm:

Tax credits boss orders: Keep callers on the line

Excellant story - well briefed reporter.

The silly thing is that the HMRC do not "make" any more out of mobile callers over those paying nothing to call within their BT call plan. That is however not the point.

This well written piece demands follow-up - and will receive it.

I have called HM Revenue & Customs - Tax Credits - on 01355 359007 (0845 300 3900) a couple of times and had success in speaking to someone.  However, the last call I made - the (gentle?)man I spoke to got very angry and told me that I was not to ring on this number again.  If I did, the call would not be answered.  Can they do this?

sandradee wrote on Nov 14^th, 2009 at 12:08am:

I have called HM Revenue & Customs - Tax Credits - on 01355 359007 (0845 300 3900) a couple of times and had success in speaking to someone.  However, the last call I made - the (gentle?)man I spoke to got very angry and told me that I was not to ring on this number again.  If I did, the call would not be answered.  Can they do this?

Hi Sandra and welcome to SAYNOTO0870.COM.

I've joined your post on to a thread about the same thing. Others have had similar responses to calling HMRC's non-premium numbers.

Hello all

I called the alternative number for the tax credit office today and was told that I must not use that number to call them, and that they have put a note on my file to say that they will not accept my call if i use it again. I said I thought this wasn't legal and that they must provide me with an alternative but we got into an argument as she was adamant that she didnt have to do any such thing, and I had to call the 0845 number or nothing. Can you tell me if she is correct please?
I have used this number several times before without any problems.
Thank you in advance

Which alternative number?  :-? :-?

ah sorry, i called 01355 359007, which I had obtained from the site a while ago and stored in my phone. I have called it without trouble several times before  :-/

bessiebunter wrote on Nov 24^th, 2009 at 2:21pm:

I called the alternative number for the tax credit office today and was told that I must not use that number to call them, and that they have put a note on my file to say that they will not accept my call if i use it again. …

I have joined your posting to the existing thread where others have posted their experiences. They have been given similar responses where they have been "told off".

I suggest that all who are treated in this way write to their MPs. Complain about the cost of calling the "revenue sharing" 0845 numbers and the way in which calls are dealt with when they dare call the 01/02 numbers.

If this nonsense continues, should we not be encouraging people to ring at weekends and/or evenings, when calls to 0845 are free in most call packages? This means the Government will need more workers on weekend and evening shifts, probably at a higher price.

Just rang 01355359007 with no probs at all (it is Sat) went to answer phone first then to e helpfull wo
man who asked lots of stupid questions!!  But number works - straight through after hours waiting and getting cut off on the 0845

OK, I had issues getting through to the TC line.  Here is my letter to my MP:

I recently had cause to ring the tax credit helpline on 0845 3003900.

Yesterday, I made several telephone calls, only to be told via a
recording that they were too busy, and please would I call back later.

Today, I rang several times, the last time I actually got through to a
queue, which then gave me engaged tone!

Each phone call to this 0845 number costs a significant amount of money
compared to calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers. Calls from mobiles to 0845
are specifically very expensive and are never included in call
bundles/allowances.  See
See http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Hl1/help/dg_173539 for further details.


I went to the 'saynoto0870' website, looked up a listing for the Tax
Credit office, which has a geographic number of 01355 359007, and rang
this instead. I immediately got through to a very helpful person but
they asked if I was calling from the UK. When I said yes, I was calling
from the UK, they told me they could not discuss anything and told me to
ring the 0845 number.

This happened twice.  I then rang them back using a French VoIP service
which I have, so that the phone call appeared to be originating from
France. Without asking me to confirm my geographic location, they
immediately answered my questions and dealt with my case helpfully and
efficiently without further ado.

This kind of discrimination is staggering, and I would welcome your
comments on this.  Is it in fact legal for a government department to
discriminate based on the caller ID of the phone number I am calling
from, or my actual location?

On a more general note, I am particularly concerned about the constant
use by government departments of 084x numbers (especially those dealing
with the least well off in society), which are always revenue generating
for the telephone companies concerned, and frequently revenue generating
for the users of the number. In this case, HMRC, NHS etc.

I would be very grateful if you would do what you can in your new
position in goverment to mandate the use of geographic numbers in all
public-facing departments.

Where intelligent call routing is required, 03xx numbers are available
for this purpose (which have to be included in all call bundles, mobile
and fixed, by OFCOM mandate), so that there is never a need to use
expensive 08 numbers.  DVLA, OFCOM are already using 03xx numbers and I
see no reason why HMRC, NHS and others cannot do likewise.

Looking forward to hearing from you in due course

gr0mit wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2010 at 2:41pm:

This happened twice.  I then rang them back using a French VoIP service which I have, so that the phone call appeared to be originating from France. Without asking me to confirm my geographic location, they immediately answered my questions and dealt with my case helpfully and efficiently without further ado. This kind of discrimination is staggering, and I would welcome your comments on this.  Is it in fact legal for a government department to discriminate based on the caller ID of the phone number I am calling from, or my actual location?

A very good point, similar to one I have made before within this forum. It is perfectly feasible for a call to be originated overseas through a VOIP facility that presents a UK number. Although I am based 4500 miles from the UK, I occasionally make use of a UK based VOIP provider, mainly to access 0800 calls. That provider presents a UK +44 20 number. Now, should I have any desire to call this helpline on its 'international' number, would my call be rejected simply based upon the CLI? What evidence would I have to give to demonstrate that I was not, in fact, within the 020 area? Perhaps turning on the TV or radio would suffice. Perhaps switch on a web cam and demonstrate an abundance of palm trees.

Once again we have an example of the abject failure of this system.

I am pleased to have resolved some misunderstanding about the use of the "international numbers", although I am disappointed and furious at what I have learned. Harder minded friends are free to crow at my need to abandon my generous approach.

I today called "01355 359007". After waiting about 7 minutes I simply asked why this number was only made available to international callers. The helpful agent told me that some overseas callers were unable to dial the 0845 number. I asked if their special number was unavailable to UK callers because it perhaps offered priority to save international callers from waiting too long due to the exceptional expense they may be incurring, or if some different procedure may be involved. I was told that there was no such priority or special treatment offered.

The agent did kindly offer to deal with my enquiry on this one occasion, even though I had called the wrong number, but told me that this offer would never be made to me again. I thanked her, but confirmed that I had only called to ask a general question, which she had answered.

This sadly leaves us to conclude that the only reason for refusing UK calls on the geo numbers is to ensure the benefit of the revenue share. I had hoped that there may be a less wicked explanation, but this is now seen to be denied. I am now ready to launch an all out attack on HMRC for its transparent application of charges for access to benefits and other services.

(It is indeed a shame to be working on stuff like this on a summer's day.)

Hi all, i've just had cause to ring them about working tax credits and thought i'd report my experience and findings.  If you're not much of a reader and just want to get through to them on a geographic number, skip to the last sentence.

First of all i called 01355 359007, and was told to use the 0845 number as you have been.  I did so, and got through their menu system twice (options 4 and 5) to face an engaged tone both times.  I then decided i may as well try a few other numbers from here to see where they led me, as in the past i've had success getting incorrect departments to transfer me to the correct ones, whilst retaining my geographic call.  I tried 028 9053 8192 and found it took me through to the exact same menu system and engaged tones of the 0845 number.

I then googled a bit to see if anyone else was also getting engaged tones, if it was a consistent problem, and if anyone had found a way around it etc and was led to this thread.  I read everything here and had an idea; I called 01355 359007 again and in my friendliest tone explained to the person on the other end that i was calling from within the UK, and just wanted to know the best time to call the 0845 number.  He informed me that although the opening times are advertised as 8:00am - 8:00pm, the lines actually open at 7:45am and almost no-one calls during these 15 minutes before the advertised time (i realise i'm possibly changing that by posting here, but hey).

I thought i'd try 028 9053 8192 one last time anyway, and got through!

Me: "Can i just ask, is this the correct line for people within the UK?  I called a different number previously, and was told it was for international calls only."
HMRC Guy: "Yes, this is the correct number.  Can i take your National Insurance number?" ... etc.

Summary: Call 028 9053 8192 between 7:45am and 8:00am.

M3ntal wrote on Jun 7^th, 2010 at 12:36pm:

First of all i called 01355 359007, and was told to use the 0845 number as you have been.  I did so, and got through their menu system twice (options 4 and 5) to face an engaged tone both times.  I then decided i may as well try a few other numbers from here to see where they led me, as in the past i've had success getting incorrect departments to transfer me to the correct ones, whilst retaining my geographic call.  I tried 028 9053 8192 and found it took me through to the exact same menu system and engaged tones of the 0845 number.

Hi and welcome to SAYNOTO0870.COM.

I've just tried this a few times with various options and got through either to engaged tone or a message saying that they're busy and then the call is automatically terminated.

Remember that the busy tone you hear is chargeable as their system has answered the call.

Perhaps someone would like to investigate this further with a view to a news story. As well as the premium number, we have the calls that are terminated after selecting relevant options and the time to listen to the menus and associated call costs.



M3ntal wrote on Jun 7^th, 2010 at 12:36pm:

I thought i'd try 028 9053 8192 one last time anyway, and got through!

I have updated the database to show this 028 number as the main alternative with a message beside it saying it's the same menu as is on the 0845 number. I've also put a note in red to say that 01355 359007 is reportedly for international callers and won't take calls from the UK.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2010 at 3:48pm:

... Harder minded friends are free to crow at my need to abandon my generous approach. ...  I am now ready to launch an all out attack on HMRC for its transparent application of charges for access to benefits and other services.

I acknowledge that some may ask when the all out attack will begin, but this will have to do from me for now.

Dave wrote on Jun 7^th, 2010 at 2:31pm:

Perhaps someone would like to investigate this further with a view to a news story. As well as the premium number, we have the calls that are terminated after selecting relevant options and the time to listen to the menus and associated call costs.

Maybe try BBC Watchdog?  I also tried to phone a few local jobcentres to get some advice, and whilst they all used to have geographic numbers which are still listed on most web directories (http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&q=leeds+jobcentre+phone+number), they all seem to now lead to an automated message saying "This line is no longer in operation, please call 0845..." or something along those lines.  I tried 3 around my area (Leeds) and they all did this.  It's starting to look like a trend rather than being limited to the tax credits helpline.

M3ntal wrote on Jun 8^th, 2010 at 2:20am:

… I also tried to phone a few local jobcentres to get some advice, and whilst they all used to have geographic numbers which are still listed on most web directories (http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&q=leeds+jobcentre+phone+number), they all seem to now lead to an automated message saying "This line is no longer in operation, please call 0845..." or something along those lines.  I tried 3 around my area (Leeds) and they all did this.  It's starting to look like a trend rather than being limited to the tax credits helpline.

There is already lots of discussion on this forum on Jobcentre Plus' move to a central 0845 number for all its branches, including suggestions on how to get around this premium number.

The thread with guidance on finding an alternative is here where later on I noted that the 0845 number is operated by Balfour Beatty Workplace and suggested that site users might like to try calling its Watford office and asking to be put through. I would like feedback on this to be posted on that thread.

A thread on the move to the 0845 number is here.

Dave wrote on Jun 8^th, 2010 at 10:59am:

A thread on the move to the 0845 number is here.

The following comment is also posted in the thread referred to above.

With reference to the DWP (and HMRC and others), I have noted, and commented on, the following item from the Sunday Mirror -

Scandal of Government helplines that cost 40p a minute

---

As this forum is structured for discussion rather than news postings, I am never sure whether members in general are interested in such bland contributions as that above, or if each should have a new thread in the expectation of stimulating a debate.

Those who may wish to follow developments on campaigns that I am engaged in may wish to subscribe to news feeds that I maintain. If any item, such as that referred to above, is considered worthy of discussion, then it could be brought into this forum. I believe that members in general should decide what it is that they wish to discuss in the forum. (I am well aware that there are many who do not wish to see contributions from myself.)

In addition to those which are general to my campaigning efforts, I now also offer feeds on specific topics. The feeds may be viewed and subscribed to at this link.

N.B. There is no cost involved, "subscription" is free of any charge. Furthermore, there is no monetary gain for me from my feeds or my blogs.

I would be delighted to hear from anyone who has suggestions about the presentation, wishes to propose items for inclusion (current or historic) or wishes to invite me to subscribe to their feeds of related material.

Source: TheyWorkForYou.com

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2010-07-06b.5363.h


Quote:

Revenue and Customs: Telephone Numbers Treasury Written answers and statements, 6 July 2010 Philip Davies (Shipley, Conservative) To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what arrangements are in place for the payment of charges for calls to the 0845 numbers used by HM Revenue and Customs. David Gauke (Exchequer Secretary, HM Treasury; South West Hertfordshire, Conservative) HMRC does not receive any revenue directly through the use of 0845 numbers. HMRC's Contact Centre telephony is provided through a commercial arrangement called the Telephony Managed Service. This takes account of the in-payments HMRC's telephony service provider receives from licensed operators carrying 0845 calls. The arrangement ensures that the Telephony Managed Service is provided at the lowest cost while remaining flexible enough to adapt to business and customer needs. HMRC is aware that the cost of calling its 0845 helplines can be an issue for some of its customers. HMRC is in the process of carrying out an in depth review of its telephone numbering strategy, looking at ways to reduce the costs to customers while balancing the costs to HMRC and the performance of its Contact Centre network.

A user of a 0845 number benefits to the tune of 1 pence per minute during the weekday daytime, and this is by design and not variable by any "commercial arrangement" between it and its provider. This is the premium attached to the inter-operator payment which the user's telephone provider will receive.

Perhaps we can find out how many call minutes HMRC receive on its premium numbers and thus calculate the taxman's undeclared income!