The use of small print and using eye catching offers that maybe not the whole story is not a new thing and most of us these days are savvy enough to spot a 'to good to be true' deal when we see one.  However this said I came across this website www.03talk.com which on the face of it offers FREE conference calls on an 0330 number.  Now having some understanding of an 0330 number I instantly thought HMMMMM.  An 0330 number for those of you who don't know is a none geographic number that is CHARGED at the same rate as a standard 01 or 02 number.  The thing with this type of number is that mobile operators MUST include calls to them in the inclusive minutes.  Minutes which are technically paid for in the monthly contact; in other words the minutes are included in your fee.  So, if you call this number from your landline you are charged, if you call it from a mobile, then the minutes are deducted.  Therefore the claims made by operators like 03talk which say things like 'why pay?' and 'free and instant conference room' really are misleading and even the more savvy consumer may overlook this.  I think the misleading element to all of this is the assumption that inclusive minutes are free.  We should stop and think for a minute.  if you get 100 inclusive minutes in your contract and you use them on a 100 minute conference call with 03 talk; they would say you got that for free.  I would say that it cost you the sum of your following 100 minutes of calls.  anyone with me on this??

03 numbers are included in land line calling plans, like 01 & 02 numbers are

MoneySavingWarrior wrote on Jul 18^th, 2010 at 8:42pm:

... anyone with me on this??

Two points.

The guys at 03 Talk are very happy to talk about how they are able to do it. They do get a tiny bit of revenue from terminating these 03 calls which is enough to cover the cost of contributors to a conference. There are other charges for associated services so it is only generally the contributors who do not pay any premium to participate. (Many teleconference facilities use 0800 numbers for contributors, so the organiser pays through the nose.)

Acceptable use of the word "free" has been discussed at length in this forum. It is fair to say that any call to 03xx number is free of a premium charge. For those enjoying "unlimited" calls, those with limits which are intended only to prevent exceptional usage, it is fair to say that any inclusive call is free of any marginal cost. If one considers the call to the conference facility to be over and above those which you expected to make from the inclusive bundle, then one could think of it as being free of any charge. Like many words, "free" can be dangerous and misleading when not properly qualified, i.e. "free of what". Any marketing claim is expected to be taken with a pinch of salt and so must be granted a reasonable degree of license. That degree can be exceeded (and frequently is), so we must be on our guard. Life would however be intolerable if every piece of marketing material was constructed like a formal contract.

Maybe we should focus our energies on those who really mislead. I recently bought a vacuum cleaner which has a 0845 helpline number on a plate on the machine itself. Below the number is the legend "It is a local rate number".

Ok. I see your points. It does still feel though that the word FREE has lost its meaning, it now means marginal.  Therefore if I'm to enjoy FREE I need to pay more to get a monthly contract that has unlimited minutes?  No wonder companies are playing the term 'free' if we accept this to be the case.  I'm behind the times and the conclusion to the discussion around the word 'free'.  I won't be upgrading my orange plan anytime soon from my £20pm with 300 inclusive minutes (which tend to get used on regular calls) to something like the £35pm to enjoy free conference calls with endless inclusive minutes.  I would have to pay 20p per min, once all my minutes are used, to call landlines and 03xx numbers. Nor will I be inclined to do the same with my landline package.  

I do get the point that this service is cheaper than most, and yes for many they will just eat into their endless supply of already paid for inclusive minutes, and I'm probably nit picking.  I just feel a bit disappointed that what is really being said is 'almost free' or 'free to those who pay more for talk plans'.  

You are also correct there are others out there who really mislead with their 08xx numbers but I thought the 03xx number creation was to prevent any confusion over their use.  Simply charged as a 01 and 02 number and not to be masqueraded as a free-phone number.  

In my eyes 'why pay?' would be a claim made by an service behind a 0800 number 'pay less' would be a claim by a 03xx operator.

Anyway I'm moving on now...I hear there are wars going on and people in the world who are starving.

MoneySavingWarrior wrote on Jul 18^th, 2010 at 8:42pm:

I came across this website www.03talk.com which on the face of it offers FREE conference calls on an 0330 number.

Welcome to this Forum MoneySavingWarrior.  :)    Thank you for bringing this service to our notice.

This is really interesting because 03Talk are offering a full tele-conferencing service using only 03 numbers!!  They appear to be in direct competition with Powownow who of course are using 0844 numbers and pleaded convincingly in their recent submission to an Ofcom consultation that they must continue to be allowed to make use of the 0844 range and imply that otherwise they might find it difficult to continue with their business.   03Talk effectively destroy that argument.

This is leading me to change my view that whilst I believe that all 084 and 087 numbers are unethical and fundamentally flawed being deceptive and misleading in concept and because they charge the wrong party to a business transaction for the services they provide, I had thought up until now that there may be some legitimate and justifiable exceptions such as Powownow and their services.    But thank you MoneySavingWarrior you have revealed that there is in fact NO justification for any exceptions and my contention that all 084/7 numbers should be brought under the same regulations as apply to 03 numbers is valid. :) :D

On a matter of detail, and in response to the initial question you asked, we on this site don't see "free" as an appropriate term to use when describing inclusive calls made within a pre-paid package.    In our view inclusive calls are not really "free" because they have been pre-paid by the package subscriber and of course they are only without any additional marginal cost so long as the total number of minutes used remain within the inclusive limit set by the package supplier.   Any minutes which exceed the limit, whether 01, 02 or 03 was dialled, will incur the charge rate set by the subscriber's service supplier.  

So 03Talk could perhaps be a little more accurate in their marketing material by saying that conference calls using their 03 numbers are without any extra charge providing the caller is using minutes within his pre-paid package, and they should say that any minutes which are incurred outside the package will be subject to the per minute charge set by the caller's supplier.   They simplify this by saying such calls are "free".   They readily acknowledge all this when you talk to them.    In that regard I accept the points suggested by SCV.  


It will be interesting to see how 03Talk progress in competition with Powownow.   I know which service I would prefer to use. !!  ;) :D ;D 8-)

MoneySavingWarrior wrote on Jul 19^th, 2010 at 12:34pm:

Ok. I see your points. It does still feel though that the word FREE has lost its meaning, it now means marginal.   I do get the point that this service is cheaper than most, and yes for many they will just eat into their endless supply of already paid for inclusive minutes, and I'm probably nit picking.  I just feel a bit disappointed that what is really being said is 'almost free' or 'free to those who pay more for talk plans'.   You are also correct there are others out there who really mislead with their 08xx numbers but I thought the 03xx number creation was to prevent any confusion over their use.  Simply charged as a 01 and 02 number and not to be masqueraded as a free-phone number.   Anyway I'm moving on now...I hear there are wars going on and people in the world who are starving.

To comment on your observations;---  notice that most other providers claim their service is "free" although they use the vastly more expensive 0844 numbers!!!    For example :  Powownow :---  
http://www.powwownow.co.uk/Enhanced-Access/?gclid=CLbewtGH-KICFQT92AodB133lA

and ConferenceGenie  http://www.conferencenow.co.uk/?utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=cpc&utm_te rm=%7Bkeyword%7D&utm_campaign=Conference%2BCall&gclid=CIz03sSI-KICFQGZ2AodLHe5kg

So they are not "free" at all !!  Its just that some are perhaps more "free" than others and the one that seems to be most "free" of those found is 03Talk which only uses 03 numbers!!  

It appears 03Talk are compelled to use the term "free" in order to compete.   It  seems to me you should complain directly to these other companies or to trading standards about misleading marketing and the ASA about their adverts.

By the way, it would be really interesting to know what you are moving on to do ..... about the wars and the starving?   Perhaps some of us could follow your example! ;) :)

MoneySavingWarrior wrote on Jul 18^th, 2010 at 8:42pm:

The use of small print and using eye catching offers that maybe not the whole story is not a new thing and most of us these days are savvy enough to spot a 'to good to be true' deal when we see one.  However this said I came across this website www.03talk.com which on the face of it offers FREE conference calls on an 0330 number. …

"Free" in this case means free of any charge additional to that of a normal telephone call. Paying for the cost of calling a 01/02/03 number is like the telephone equivalent of the cost of a stamp with the postal service.

When a fast-food outlet gives out vouchers entitling customers to a "free" burger on their next visit to the drive-through, it doesn't pay for cost of fuel used does it?  ::)

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Members may also be interested in the thread on 03Talk started last November by its owner.