Be careful of calling anyone with a Lyca mobile. You cannot use your free minutes to call as in my case I called from my T-mobile and was charged £10 for about a 30 minute call. When I called T-mobile they said that Lyca use an indirect number which accounts for me being charged. They then told me the Lyca prefixes as below. Yet another ripp off exposed.
Lyca prefix: 07404, 07405, 07417, 07424, 07438, 07440, 07466

I don't follow

I was under the impression that 07 numbers were mobile number

What is an 074 number

Mobile numbers begin 074, 075, 07624, 077, 078 and 079. The numbers starting 074 and 075 have been added over the last few years due to shortage numbers in the other ranges.

The majority of these mobile numbers are allocated to the five main network providers (O2, Vodafone, Orange, T-Mobile and 3). Where calls are made to any of these numbers from any other of these, they usually come from inclusive minutes or are charged as a standard mobile call.

However, some mobile prefixes are allocated to other telcos. I'm not sure how it is so that they are allowed numbers officially classified as being those for mobile telephone networks, but is the case that they are.

There have been postings in the past from people who have called on of these other numbers, expecting them to be treated as normal mobile numbers.


I wonder if the (termination) charges these other providers impose on origination networks (those we make calls with) are greater than those of the five main mobile operators and thus they are passing this additional charge onto callers.

From the o2 web site  http://shop.o2.co.uk/tariffs/24_months


Inclusive minutes
Inclusive minutes can be used for calls to standard UK landlines (starting 01, 02 or 03) and all UK network mobiles. It excludes calls to non-geographic numbers (starting 05, 08), 07744 and 07755 numbers and premium rate (09) numbers.



From this statement one would assume that 074 numbers are included.

sherbert wrote on Mar 26^th, 2011 at 2:54pm:

From the o2 web site  http://shop.o2.co.uk/tariffs/24_months Inclusive minutes Inclusive minutes can be used for calls to standard UK landlines (starting 01, 02 or 03) and all UK network mobiles. It excludes calls to non-geographic numbers (starting 05, 08), 07744 and 07755 numbers and premium rate (09) numbers. From this statement one would assume that 074 numbers are included.

That is certainly what is implied.

The O2 Special Numbers page lists a number of 07 Mobile Number prefixes (and one 0871) which are suspended (i.e. O2 subscribers cannot call them) because of disputes with respective providers:

079785 Vectone Network Limited
078225 Vectone Network Limited
079789 IV Response Limited
078730 Routo Telecommunications Limited
078931 24 Seven Communications Ltd
079118 24 Seven Communications Ltd
079112 24 Seven Communications Ltd
078223 unknown
079780 Callax Limited
0871955 Magrathea Telecommunications Limited


It's likely that some providers may demand more in termination charges for calls to be connected. This leaves retail call providers in a predicament:

• to allow subscribers to call these numbers, but levy a premium for them thereby potentially leaving them open to bill shock, as experienced by the OP; or
  
• not allow calls to these numbers.

If you click the T-mobile link below, all is explained about this Lyca rip off.

https://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/terms-and-conditions/inclusive-allowances/

I have just followed the link to the T Mobile Site and I am a llttle confused to say the least as I thought all mobile numbers started 07 and I hadn't heard of Zones


07404      07405      07408      07417      07424      07466
075202      075594      075894      075895      075896      075897
07609      07610      07621      07682      077077      0782210
078228      078920      078921      078931      079112      079118
079788                              
This means if you call one of those numbers, that call won't come out of your inclusive allowance and you'll be charged

I thought all 07 numbers were mobiles and you were charged depending on your package not the number the caller was contacting

sorry if it is a simple process its just that I am not familiar with all mobile Zones etc

The problem here is not so much that excpetions exist as in the difficulty of knowing that you might be dialling one, especially as there seem to be quite a lot of them. As usual Ofcom seem to be spineless.

Always beware of numbers that start 070. There are not mobiles but a nasty form of premium rate. A scam really that Ofcom still allows. I know people who have been left a message or missed call by scammers from an 070 number. They phone back to find themselves charged at least 50p, often more some of which goes into the scammers pocket.

bazzerfewi wrote on Mar 27^th, 2011 at 2:02pm:

I have just followed the link to the T Mobile Site and I am a llttle confused to say the least as I thought all mobile numbers started 07 and I hadn't heard of Zones 07404      07405      07408      07417      07424      07466 075202      075594      075894      075895      075896      075897 07609      07610      07621      07682      077077      0782210 078228      078920      078921      078931      079112      079118 079788                               This means if you call one of those numbers, that call won't come out of your inclusive allowance and you'll be charged I thought all 07 numbers were mobiles and you were charged depending on your package not the number the caller was contacting sorry if it is a simple process its just that I am not familiar with all mobile Zones etc

Thanks for revealing this matter, Bazzer, Dave and all.   This is so important it should be raised with Ofcom to get sorted out properly.   It so happens there is a perfect opportunity to do this which is only open for the next 4 days ---- to raise it in response to the current Ofcom consultation which is discussed on this thread -- http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1292499417/85#85

The closing date for this consultation has been quietly extended by Ofcom to 31st March 2011, this Thursday.   Can I urge you and others to submit a response to Ofcom bringing this problem to their attention before this deadline --- http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/consultations/simplifying-non-geo-numbers/

It is not necessary to fill in the Ofcom tedious response form because you can send in a free format response by email as Ofcom say in their section "How to respond".  Send your email to ---  NGCSReview@ofcom.org.uk   .   Most of the 65 responses already published on that Ofcom website are free format and many only address a single issue.

Can I urge as many people as possible to submit a response this week before the 31st March deadline.

Allegro is absolutely correct BEWARE of 070 numbers. They are a premium rate personal number made to look like an ordinary mobile costing up to 50p per minute.

See the BBC warning below!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/working_lunch/6527127.stm

These Mobile Numbers which cost a premium to call with respect to other mobile numbers and Personal Numbers are to Mobile Numbers what 084x and 0871/2/3 is to geographic numbers.

In essence, there are two widely accepted types of domestic numbers which have differing underlying costs to connect. They are landlines and mobiles.

All others should be regard as premium (of sorts).

07 PERSONAL NUMBERS
How is a caller supposed to distinguish between a mobile 07 number and a personal 07 number.
Callers are contacting people unwittingly using 07 numbers and being charge the high personal number charge
A perfect example is numbers used at A patient’s bedside they are encouraged to tell their friends to contact the on an 07 number and it is not until the patient has usually left hospital that they realize that they have been charged THE HIGHER RATE for calling a personal number
There should be a recorded message warning callers if it is either a premium rate or personal number notifying them of the call cost of the call.


I have posted this response to ofcom

bazzerfewi wrote on Mar 28^th, 2011 at 12:10pm:

07 PERSONAL NUMBERS How is a caller supposed to distinguish between a mobile 07 number and a personal 07 number. Callers are contacting people unwittingly using 07 numbers and being charge the high personal number charge A perfect example is numbers used at A patient’s bedside they are encouraged to tell their friends to contact the on an 07 number and it is not until the patient has usually left hospital that they realize that they have been charged THE HIGHER RATE for calling a personal number There should be a recorded message warning callers if it is either a premium rate or personal number notifying them of the call cost of the call. I have posted this response to ofcom

If responding to the Ofcom consultation it is worth pointing out that the Ofcom Numbering Plan Dec 2010 http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/telecoms/numbering/numplan201210.pdf distinguishes prefix 070 as Personal Numbering but shows ranges 071-075, 077-079 as Mobile Services implying all these numbers share a common tariff.  This is clearly misleading

bazzerfewi wrote on Mar 28^th, 2011 at 12:10pm:

There should be a recorded message warning callers if it is either a premium rate or personal number notifying them of the call cost of the call.

Whenever I have phoned one of these numbers to a hospital, there has always been a recorded message spelling out how much the call is going to cost.

sherbert wrote on Mar 28^th, 2011 at 12:42pm:

bazzerfewi wrote on Mar 28th, 2011 at 12:10pm: There should be a recorded message warning callers if it is either a premium rate or personal number notifying them of the call cost of the call. Whenever I have phoned one of these numbers to a hospital, there has always been a recorded message spelling out how much the call is going to cost.

Yes, but is that not played out by the receiving party (telco; the provider of the phone system)? And in which case, it will most probably only apply one call provider so what use is that?

Today, callers can be ringing from any one of many call providers, so should the recording give the rates of all providers? How might they ensure accuracy?


I'm not really sure what a recorded announcement might do as by the time the digits have been dialled, the decision to call has been made.

Well, to be honest, the last time I dialled one of these numbers was in the days when 'Patient Line', or what ever it was called, was in existence and I seem to remember it was  'Patient Line' that gave out what the call was going to cost.  I vaguely remember the announcement, said how much it was, from all land lines and mobiles will be dearer.

Maybe it has all changed since then. :-?

Ofcom sent me the following reply to my questions on the 'dodgy' number ranges:


Quote:

To confirm, all 07 numbers other than 070 (which as you say are designated for Personal Numbering Services) and 076 (which are designated for Radio Paging Services) are in fact mobile numbers and not premium rate numbers.  The numbers you have highlighted below may not be included in some mobile plans because they belong to smaller mobile communications providers.  Our recent statement on mobile call termination looked at these other providers and they are now included within our regulation of termination rates (although not to the same extent as the main five providers).  There is a table  in Annex 1 of the statement which highlights the different mobile number ranges and which provider they belong to (and these include the numbers you’ve highlighted below). These numbers are often not included within some providers’ bundles because of differing/higher termination rates.  Our recent statement will lead to a reduction in termination rates over time and therefore it is likely that these differences will decrease over time.  We do not, however, regulate mobile providers retail prices or packages

sherbert wrote on Mar 28^th, 2011 at 1:09pm:

Well, to be honest, the last time I dialled one of these numbers was in the days when 'Patient Line', or what ever it was called, was in existence and I seem to remember it was  'Patient Line' that gave out what the call was going to cost.  I vaguely remember the announcement, said how much it was, from all land lines and mobiles will be dearer. Maybe it has all changed since then. :-?

The point is that if there is to be advisation (is "advisation" a word?) of price, whether that be verbal or written, then it must be applicable for any individual caller.

In a market where each seller (call provider) can impose their own charge, then it stands to reason that it must be it which gives the pricing information and not the party being called (Service Provider).

Dave wrote on Mar 28^th, 2011 at 3:06pm:

(is "advisation" a word?)

No!  ;)  But I know what you mean Dave....thanks :)

It's not Lyca at fault, but T-Mobile. Here's a post detailing what actually happened:


Quote:

Some of the information here is correct but some isn't. The situation is that basically, in the Netherlands, Lycamobile used to be a MVNO (virtual network in the same way Virgin is an MVNO hopping on the back of T-Mobile in the UK) of T-Mobile but has moved over to Vodafone. T-Mobile also were fined in court for not allowing bulk migration over to Vodafone. In retaliation, in all countries T-Mobile are involved in, they blocked calls to these numbers. When OFCOM and their counterparts in other countries got involved and said you can't do that, they connected calls but stopped calls coming out of your allowance so these TM customers could get their friends to move away from Lyca because of the costs. Source: T-Mobile Forum Link (2nd from last post)

You'll notice people on other networks like O2 don't get charged ridiculous amounts it's only T-Mobile. I've not used Lyca but found this while i was researching cheaper international calls, but makes T-Mobile sound pretty bad so i'm happy that i'm in the process of moving over to GiffGaff.

videospy wrote on Mar 28^th, 2011 at 9:30am:

Allegro is absolutely correct BEWARE of 070 numbers. They are a premium rate personal number made to look like an ordinary mobile costing up to 50p per minute. See the BBC warning below! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/working_lunch/6527127.stm

Interesting that Ofcom said four years ago that these sneaky numbers would be "phased out". We're still waiting... ::)

sherbert wrote on Mar 26^th, 2011 at 2:54pm:

From the o2 web site  http://shop.o2.co.uk/tariffs/24_months Inclusive minutes Inclusive minutes can be used for calls to standard UK landlines (starting 01, 02 or 03) and all UK network mobiles. It excludes calls to non-geographic numbers (starting 05, 08), 07744 and 07755 numbers and premium rate (09) numbers. From this statement one would assume that 074 numbers are included.

Giffgaff excludes those two, plus a load of others (no explanation given): http://support.giffgaff.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/521/related/1

Conversely, T-Mobile appears to allow both 07744 and 07755...

Ofcom should not allow this terrible confusion!

Trenod wrote on Apr 25^th, 2011 at 1:41am:

sherbert wrote on Mar 26th, 2011 at 2:54pm: From the o2 web site  http://shop.o2.co.uk/tariffs/24_months Inclusive minutes Inclusive minutes can be used for calls to standard UK landlines (starting 01, 02 or 03) and all UK network mobiles. It excludes calls to non-geographic numbers (starting 05, 08), 07744 and 07755 numbers and premium rate (09) numbers. From this statement one would assume that 074 numbers are included. Giffgaff excludes those two, plus a load of others (no explanation given): http://support.giffgaff.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/521/related/1 Conversely, T-Mobile appears to allow both 07744 and 07755... Ofcom should not allow this terrible confusion!

This is grassroots stuff; not the effect, but the cause. In fact there are much similarities with the 084x and 0871, 0872, 0873 and 09 numbers.

People seem quick to criticise the effect when on its receiving end which means they pay higher call charges.


At the end of the day, the grassroots I am referring to are termination charges. Where termination charges are significantly higher within a given range, as is assumed to be the case here, then the general net effect is that call providers will pass on those premiums directly to those customers who ring the numbers.

We can't have a situation whereby call providers are forced to charge the same retail price for calls with (greatly) differing termination charges. If we did, then it would force up the price of those calls as a whole, as well as benefitting the users of those numbers.

The fundamental rule must be that termination charges are determined by number range so as to allow call providers to charge all numbers within each range the same.

Slight variations in termination charges may be permitted, but the current approach is a dog's dinner numbering plan and lots of confusion to callers.

The following are prefixes allocated to Lycamobile (followed by "change" dates):

07404* 08/2009
07405* 08/2009
074173 09/2010
074174 09/2010
074175 09/2010
07424* 03/2010
07438* 09/2010
074400 09/2010
074401 09/2010
074402 09/2010
074403 09/2010
074404 09/2010
074405 09/2010
074406 09/2010
074407 09/2010
07448* 08/2011
07459* 06/2012
07466* 03/2010

I've checked the following provider's sites and found the following:

• 3 - Near the end of the Price Guide (PDF) there are "Non Standard 07 Numbers" of which the Lycamobile prefixes do not appear.
  
• O2 - The Special numbers page does not list these prefixes, nor do they appear as "Temporarily Suspended Numbers".
  
• Orange - Pay Monthly Guide and Pay as you Go Guide pages list "call forwarding services" that use normal 07-mobile numbers, but the Lycamobile prefixes don't feature.
  
• T-Mobile - Non-inclusive numbers don't list Lycamobile prefixes.
  
• Vodafone - Can only find "Call forwarding services (e.g. 07744, 07755)" charged above other 07-mobile numbers.

This leads me to suspect that the issue of these being charged at a premium may now have been rectified, or at least for the main operators.