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Message started by bazzerfewi on Jul 24th, 2012 at 6:22pm

Title: Use Of 0845 NHS/GPs
Post by bazzerfewi on Jul 24th, 2012 at 6:22pm
I have had a reply from Dan Jarvis "MP Barnsley Central" and he states that surgeries are not permitted to use 0845/0844 numbers as a revenue generating scheme, so the cost of a call from a landline will be the same a dialling a geographic  number  however this does not apply to mobile tariffs.

Dan Jarvis has once again requested an update from Barnsley Link Officers and NHS Barnlsey and will contact me as soon as I have received a response.

Dan Jarvis has enclosed a report from the House of Commons Library whareby it clearly states that NHS bodies in England and Wales will not pay more to make relevent calls to the NHS body than they would to make equivalent calls to a geographic number, at present this is not the case.

Furthermore in February 2012 the Department of Health issued further guidance on the use of 084 numbers which included the following example:- if a person calls a GP surgery with a 084 number from a mobile or landline or a payphone they should not pay more for that call than if they were calling a geographical number from that mobile, landline, or payphone.

Once again the revised act of February 2012 clearly prohibits the use of 084 numbers, maybe now GPs in Barnlsey may take notice.

House Of Commons Library Ref: Standard Note SN/SP/6094
Section Social Policy Section


I will keep you informed of any updates from Dan Jarvis

Title: Re: Use Of 0845 NHS/GPs
Post by catj on Jul 24th, 2012 at 10:30pm
It is especially annoying that quotes such "are not allowed to use (0844 numbers) for generating revenue" are trotted out to falsely try to give the impression these numbers "do not cost more".

It is quite clear from the call prices advertised by most UK landline and mobile providers for 0844 numbers that these cost very much more to call than 01, 02 and 03 numbers.

The issue of "revenue generation" is a misleading and irrelevent distraction. It is the actual cost to the caller that is important here, and that cost is set by the type of number 01/02/03 vs. 0844 that the surgery has chosen to use.

Calls of all types (landline and mobile) are covered by the directive, and calls to 0844 numbers can cost up to 41 pence per minute more than calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers.

It is clear that the usage of 0844 numbers by GPs is banned, and has been since April 2010.

Title: Re: Use Of 0845 NHS/GPs
Post by SilentCallsVictim on Jul 24th, 2012 at 11:14pm

bazzerfewi wrote on Jul 24th, 2012 at 6:22pm:
he states that
Quote:
surgeries are not permitted to use 0845/0844 numbers as a revenue generating scheme, so the cost of a call from a landline will be the same a dialling a geographic  number  however this does not apply to mobile tariffs.

Whatever the author of such a statement believes, it is not an accurate statement of the contractual position of NHS GPs.

Furthermore it is nonsense:
[list bull-redsq]
  • Nobody can generate revenue using 0845/0844 numbers (on any sensible commercial scale)
     
  • There are a few exceptional cases where the cost of calling a 0845 number is the same as calling a geographic number, and none where this applies to 0844 numbers. Unless a surgery is itself the provider of telephone service, then the cost of calling is invariably beyond its control.
     
  • The idea that NHS patients calling from a mobile phone are somehow different is an invention of those who seek to vary the principles of the NHS. It has no basis whatsoever in fact.

    bazzerfewi wrote on Jul 24th, 2012 at 6:22pm:
    a report from the House of Commons Library

    It is important to understand that the valuable research work undertaken by the House of Commons Library simply pulls together material and attempts to present it as a report. The report has no authority in itself; this exists only in the material that it references.

  • Title: Re: Use Of 0845 NHS/GPs
    Post by bazzerfewi on Jul 26th, 2012 at 8:39am
    As the author of the above statement it is my belief that all NHS services should be free on entry.

    If the statement from Dan Jarvis is incorrect please forward me the relevent information and I will bring it to his attention

    Title: Re: Use Of 0845 NHS/GPs
    Post by catj on Jul 26th, 2012 at 9:16pm
    he states that

    Quote:
    surgeries are not permitted to use 0845/0844 numbers

    Correct. They are not permitted to use 0844 and 0845 numbers


    Quote:
    as a revenue generating scheme,

    They are not allowed to use them at all, whatever the "scheme".


    Quote:
    so the cost of a call from a landline will be the same a dialling a geographic  number

    The cost of calling a GP should be the same as calling an 01 or 02 number, but when the GP uses an 0844 number it is much more expensive to call.


    Quote:
    however this does not apply to mobile tariffs.

    Calls to GPs should not cost more than calling an 01 or 02 number whichever method the caller chooses to use, whether from landline or mobile. This has been stated several times recently. However, if the GP surgery uses an 0844 number calls to that number will be very much more expensive than if an 01 or 02 number had been called.

    Title: Re: Use Of 0845 NHS/GPs
    Post by catj on Dec 4th, 2012 at 9:54am
    Is this the briefing note referred to above?

    http://www.parliament.uk/Templates/BriefingPapers/Pages/BPPdfDownload.aspx?bp-id=SN06094



    This summary does a far better job:

    http://www.fairtelecoms.org.uk/chronology.html


    Title: Re: Use Of 0845 NHS/GPs
    Post by SilentCallsVictim on Dec 4th, 2012 at 10:02am

    catj wrote on Dec 4th, 2012 at 9:54am:
    Is this the briefing note referred to above?
    http://www.parliament.uk/Templates/BriefingPapers/Pages/BPPdfDownload.aspx?bp-id=SN06094

    Yes.


    catj wrote on Dec 4th, 2012 at 9:54am:
    This summary does a far better job:
    http://www.fairtelecoms.org.uk/chronology.html


    Thank you (on behalf of the campaign - personal thanks are due to the author).

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