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Main Forum >> Government and Public Sector >> National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
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Message started by bigjohn on Jun 25th, 2015 at 9:53pm

Title: National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
Post by bigjohn on Jun 25th, 2015 at 9:53pm
I am surprised that the National Lottery have still not changed their 2 0845 numbers to 01/02/03 ones.

Title: Re: National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
Post by CJT-80 on Jun 28th, 2015 at 12:44pm
Frankly I am not,

perhaps it's worth anyone on here who uses the National Lottery e-mailing them to voice their opinion?

https://www.national-lottery.co.uk/contact-us#get-in-touch

e-mail address on the right hand side.

Title: Re: National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
Post by Ian01 on Jun 28th, 2015 at 12:54pm

The long-awaited FCA regulation should eventually take care of this.

In the meantime the press may pick up on the fact that they impose a Service Charge for telephone contact. From 1 July 2015 this charge must be declared.



Title: Re: National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
Post by SilentCallsVictim on Jun 28th, 2015 at 3:22pm

Ian01 wrote on Jun 28th, 2015 at 12:54pm:
The long-awaited FCA regulation should eventually take care of this.


Camelot is regulated by The Gambling Commission, not the FCA.

There could be a case for gamblers being protected from an additional charge that spikes their odds a little. One may however share my view that the capacity to intelligently assess the odds is an essential requirement for anyone who chooses to engage in gambling for profit.

In truth, the whole gambling business unfairly relies on the exploitation of those who cannot judge the odds, or are prepared to give away money in a foolish spirit of carelessness. There is a strong argument that people enjoy engaging in a little foolishness - so why spoilt their fun!


Title: Re: National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
Post by bigjohn on Jun 28th, 2015 at 7:29pm
Given it provides a service on behalf of The Govt. Surely it should be by now using 01/02/03 numbers.

"The guidance is aimed at central government departments, public bodies that fall within their organisational hierarchy and also services provided by external private partners on behalf of the parent department"

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hmg-guidance-for-customer-service-lines

Title: Re: National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
Post by SilentCallsVictim on Jun 28th, 2015 at 9:34pm

bigjohn wrote on Jun 28th, 2015 at 7:29pm:
Given it provides a service on behalf of The Govt. Surely it should be by now using 01/02/03 numbers.

"… services provided by external private partners on behalf of the parent department"

Sadly the chain from DCMS to Camelot passes through the National Lottery Commission, part of the Gambling Commission. NDPB's (aka Quangoes) must have some independence from the department that they are related to.

The Guidance has been very effective within its limited scope - essentially 100%. We obviously wish that the scope could have been much wider, and have made serious efforts to extend it, but without success.

At the risk of extending my personal views too far, I might say that I wish that the National Lottery was much further away from the government than it is.


Title: Re: National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
Post by CJT-80 on Jul 1st, 2015 at 10:46am
The National Lottery contact us page, now includes the service charge statement.

Time to e-mail them and find out why they have not changed it to an 03 number like the Minicom number is.

:)

Title: Re: National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
Post by kasg on Jul 1st, 2015 at 2:17pm

CJT-80 wrote on Jul 1st, 2015 at 10:46am:
The National Lottery contact us page, now includes the service charge statement.

Time to e-mail them and find out why they have not changed it to an 03 number like the Minicom number is.


But the charging information for the Minicom 0370 number is nonsense:


Quote:
(Calls to 0370 numbers from a BT land line are charged at your calling plan’s standard network rate. Mobile and other providers’ charges may vary.)

Title: Re: National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
Post by bigjohn on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 11:38am
I notice they now say calls to the National Lottery Line cost 2p per minute plus your service provider’s access charges.

They really ought to make it clearer and say calls to our 0845 numbers as opposed to the  National Lottery Line, as they use more then one number.

They breach the guidlines as the info is not in close proximity to the number as such.

Title: Re: National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
Post by CJT-80 on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 7:02pm
I complained over their use of an 084 number to contact them on, as opposed to an 034 number, and got this useless reply:

"Thank you for your email dated 01 July 2015 regarding our contact numbers.

I can confirm that we use non geographic 0845 numbers for call routing purposes.

In regards to our call charges, calls to our 0845 number are charged at a local rate from BT landlines however other providers may charge more. I can confirm that we currently do not make a profit from call charges.

If you have any further queries, please do contact us."

Points to make: I didn't question if they used an 0845 number I asked WHY they did.  Calls are not charged at Local Rates (they don't exist).  I didn't suggest they make a profit from their use of the number.

Looks like a bog standard template reply to me.

Here is my original e-mail:

"Good Morning,

As a user of the National Lottery service, I was wondering why National Lottery/Camelot still use an 084 number for their main contact details? (0845 9 100 000)

I notice that both the Minicom and complaints lines are 03 numbers (0370) so why has the 084 number not been changed to an 034 number?  It is completely possible to have 0345 9 100 000.

Whist I appreciate that the National Lottery/Camelot have no rules that require you to change the number over, surely from a customer service perspective it would seem the " right thing to do" ?

I look forward to your reply.

Any suggestions on words to use in my reply?  :)

Title: Re: National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
Post by CJT-80 on Oct 9th, 2015 at 9:31am
Well Well Well,

It appears the situation with Camelot/National Lottery gets worse.... if that's at all possible!

They have now changed their main two numbers from 0845 to.. 0844! The call charging information is hidden at the bottom in the small print!

Time for a ranting e-mail to them!  >:(

Title: Re: National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
Post by Ian01 on Oct 9th, 2015 at 3:55pm

It will be interesting to see if their telecoms company advised them that an 0844 number would be a cheaper call than an 0845 number.


Title: Re: National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
Post by CJT-80 on Oct 9th, 2015 at 5:55pm
Well I got what can only be described as a stock reply:

"Thank you for your email dated 09 October 2015. I am sorry to hear your disappointment.

However, Charges above the basic rate are allowed for services that don’t form part of the contract, such as technical support. Businesses are still free to use such numbers for sales lines, if they so wish.

The legislation, applies to most sectors, however exemptions are listed below:


• financial services, including banks and insurance companies
• gambling
• construction, sale of immovable property and residential letting contracts
• package travel and timeshare
• roundsmen on a regular route
• purchases from vending machines
• single telecommunications connections such as public payphones and public wifi, including that provided in establishments such as cafés

I hope the above has been helpful but if you have any further queries, please do contact us.

Yours sincerely"

How typical of Camelot and National Lottery!

Title: Re: National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
Post by Ian01 on Oct 9th, 2015 at 6:08pm

From 26 October 2015, financial services will also be subject to the same 'basic rate' restrictions.

New FCA regulation comes into effect on that date.

Just because the gambling sector isn't yet banned from using premium rate numbers, doesn't mean they should carry on using them.


Title: Re: National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
Post by bigjohn on Oct 10th, 2015 at 2:01am

CJT-80 wrote on Oct 9th, 2015 at 9:31am:
Well Well Well,

It appears the situation with Camelot/National Lottery gets worse.... if that's at all possible!

They have now changed their main two numbers from 0845 to.. 0844! The call charging information is hidden at the bottom in the small print!

Time for a ranting e-mail to them!  >:(


They dont comply with recent UK Calling changes. As no mention of the 0844 service charge is shown on the contact page on the website : https://www.national-lottery.co.uk/contact-us#get-in-touch 

"If your business or organisation is contacted on a number beginning 084, 087, 09 or 118, you must ensure that your service charge is clearly displayed wherever you advertise or promote that number. The service charge should be prominent and in close proximity to the number itself. The recommended form of wording is:

“Calls cost xp [or xp per minute] plus your phone company's access charge.”

This is likely to mean that your service charge should be provided alongside the related number in all communications directed towards current or potential users of the service, where the use of the number is promoted or advertised. "

Title: Re: National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
Post by kasg on Oct 10th, 2015 at 11:59am

bigjohn wrote on Oct 10th, 2015 at 2:01am:
They dont comply with recent UK Calling changes. As no mention of the 0844 service charge is shown on the contact page on the website : https://www.national-lottery.co.uk/contact-us#get-in-touch 

The numbers have little Δ symbols next to them and there is a well hidden Δ at the bottom of the page - if you click on View the small print it opens a drop-down text list that includes:


Quote:
0844 National Lottery call charges
Calls cost 7p per minute plus your service provider's access charges

Not exactly prominent!

Title: Re: National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
Post by CJT-80 on Oct 10th, 2015 at 12:24pm
Here is a screen shot showing you how bad it is..

http://tinypic.com/r/2hzqv5g/8


Title: Re: National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
Post by Ian01 on Dec 14th, 2015 at 6:20am

In today's Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/dec/14/national-lottery-operator-greedy-foolish-0844-phone-number-use

Of course, all 084, 087 and 09 numbers are premium rate with an additional Service Charge paid to the benefit of the called party and their telecoms provider. Where the Service Charge is more than 7p per minute or per call, the number is further defined as a Controlled Premium Rate Service (CPRS) and subject to additional PhonepayPlus regulation.


Title: Re: National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
Post by CJT-80 on Dec 14th, 2015 at 10:21am
Sadly it's just further proof that Camelot and indeed National Lottery are just greedy!

Having said that, it appears they have just decided to follow the other "Lottery" and use an 0844 number.

I contacted Camelot/National Lottery several times regarding their (at the time) 0845 number, only to be told they were looking at alternatives... it seems the "alternative" they decided on was a more costly one for us to use!  >:(

Title: Re: National Lottery 03 Numbers
Post by CJT-80 on Oct 2nd, 2017 at 8:25pm
Good News!

Finally it appears National Lottery / Camelot Group now have 03 numbers to contact them on see here - They are: 0333 234 50 50 (If you play in a store) or 0333 234 44 33 (If you play online).

I will update the database with the "old" 0844 numbers and their 03 replacements.  :)

Title: Re: National Lottery 03 Numbers
Post by SilentCallsVictim on Oct 3rd, 2017 at 10:32am

CJT-80 wrote on Oct 2nd, 2017 at 8:25pm:
Good News!

Finally it appears National Lottery / Camelot Group now have 03 numbers to contact them on see here - They are: 0333 234 50 50 (If you play in a store) or 0333 234 44 33 (If you play online).


I am not in the habit of quoting from emails, however some may be interested to read an extract from a message I have just sent to another Mr Hickson, the Head of Policy and Public Affairs at Camelot:


Quote:
I am a little late with this message, but after our meeting on 14 January 2016 I had hoped to be in contact with you very much sooner.

On viewing these archived web pages for 1 July 2017 and 24 June 2017, one may see that, during the interval between these dates, the points I made some 18 months previously were finally seen to have achieved their objective.

I have been campaigning, successfully, for quite long enough to know that, in this type of work, patience is not simply a virtue, it is a necessity. (It took around 10 years to get over 1,00 NHS GPs off their 0844 numbers; 4 years for HMRC and the DWP was as nothing.)

This page - https://www.national-lottery.co.uk/contact-us#get-in-touch – indeed now shows two shiny new 03 numbers.

These replace the 0844 numbers, which led to me describing Camelot as “Greedy and Foolish” – https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/dec/14/national-lottery-operator-greedy-foolish-0844-phone-number-use.

I offer an unqualified “Well done” to you and all of your colleagues who were involved in this change.


I am very grateful to CJT-80 for spotting this change and to all fellow campaigners in the cause of fair telecoms.

Title: Re: National Lottery 0845 Numbers.
Post by Ian01 on Oct 7th, 2017 at 3:20pm

More progress in the elimination of 084 and 087 numbers.


December 2015:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/dec/14/national-lottery-operator-greedy-foolish-0844-phone-number-use


October 2017:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/oct/07/camelot-national-lottery-close-expensive-0844-lines


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