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Message started by SilentCallsVictim on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 7:17pm

Title: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
Post by SilentCallsVictim on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 7:17pm
"Clear Call Rates for Everyone" - aka "UK Calling" is now in force - http://ukcalling.info.

The fair telecoms campaign is continuing its efforts to draw attention to this in general terms and is focussing its energies on promoting widespread proper understanding of what this achieves, as well as giving specific attention to selected important individual cases.

The important point is bringing the attention of consumers to Service Charges and Access Charges, so that they can engage directly with those who impose these charges, to challenge them on the propriety and level of the charge.

Those who are failing to comply must be reported to the respective enforcement authority directly:
[list bull-blackball]
  • Telephone companies - to Ofcom
  • Broadcasters - to Ofcom
  • Service Providers with 087/09/118 numbers - to Phonepay Plus
  • Service Providers with 084 numbers - to the ASA
    These authorities will probably suggest that the issue be raised with the organisation directly - especially in the early days, when there could be genuine ignorance or delays in getting websites properly updated.

    Supporters of the "fair telecoms campaign" can feel free to use the name in raising an issue and to copy me in with any emails.


    We always knew that the start would be messy and there are many situations still being resolved. Some of what is seen at present will not necessarily be in place for long. We urge care in drawing early conclusions about how effective this has been. Much of what it has achieved has already been seen by the number of organisations who have moved away from 084/087 numbers - to avoid having to declare a Service Charge.


    We are working with partners on the idea of an authoritative publicly-accessible website to verify the level of Service Charge which applies to any number. This is actually disturbingly difficult to achieve in practice, because of the nature of the network of commercial agreements between originating and terminating telephone companies, which retains some of the legacy of a nationalised service.

    We are confident that something effective and sufficiently definitive will be achieved, as this is very badly needed. It should have been in place ready for 1 July and we hope that it will not take long. We are however determined to get it right and to secure adequate endorsement of its validity. I cannot offer a running commentary, however we will ensure that followers of the SayNoTo0870.com forums are kept up to date. If anyone wants to be involved in this, please contact me directly.



  • Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by bbb_uk on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 9:56pm
    Thanks.

    I've made this a sticky.

    Forum Admin has created a webpage here which details the "access charge" for most telephone providers.

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by SilentCallsVictim on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 10:11pm

    bbb_uk wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 9:56pm:

    Forum Admin has created a webpage here which details the "access charge" for most telephone providers.

    These will need to be watched closely as they are new on the market and may be subject to further change. In some cases operators have failed to comply with the regulations (by offering differential rates). Ofcom is aware of this and must be expected to pull them into line - we hope, very swiftly.



    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone (Non Compliance)
    Post by bigjohn on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 4:04am
    Its  early days yet but the non compliance by service providers is currently very high. I did a quick check of major users in my neck of the woods,and i only found one complying. Those not publishing the service charge involved to call them  included a Premier League Football Club,Large Hotel. Large  Firm Of Solicitors, Big Car Sales Company, Major Fitness Club Chain, Big Theatre.


    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by japitts on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 10:25am
    I've found the same - also noticing that when you query the non-compliance/what is the service charge with these firms, that "ignore the email or Tweet" seems to be quite prevalent.

    Which makes me wonder, what level of enforcement is there? I suspect none.

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by nicholas43 on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 2:10pm

    SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 7:17pm:
    We are working with partners on the idea of an authoritative publicly-accessible website to verify the level of Service Charge which applies to any number. This is actually disturbingly difficult to achieve in practice, because of the nature of the network of commercial agreements between originating and terminating telephone companies, which retains some of the legacy of a nationalised service.

    In my opinion, Ofcom ought to have compiled such a list, and should make it available on their website. I have managed to get recorded by Ofcom my complaint that they have not done it.

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by SilentCallsVictim on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 10:48pm

    bigjohn wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 4:04am:
    Its  early days yet but the non compliance by service providers is currently very high. I did a quick check of major users in my neck of the woods,and i only found one complying. Those not publishing the service charge involved to call them  included a Premier League Football Club,Large Hotel. Large  Firm Of Solicitors, Big Car Sales Company, Major Fitness Club Chain, Big Theatre.


    japitts wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 10:25am:
    I've found the same - also noticing that when you query the non-compliance/what is the service charge with these firms, that "ignore the email or Tweet" seems to be quite prevalent.

    Which makes me wonder, what level of enforcement is there? I suspect none.

    Thanks for these comments.


    There is no good reason why service providers could not have achieved compliance in time, however we have found that some have responded to a well-aimed gentle nudge. I would encourage others to try this approach.
    This is wrong  >:(, it should not be necessary  :(, however it can be seen to work  :).

    (I referred to ways in which the fair telecoms campaign can be involved with specific cases in my first posting in this thread.)


    We must all be concerned about the level of enforcement that will be seen in practice. Obviously we will have to wait to see what happens, as cases are presented to the respective regulators, investigated and then action determined. Because the enforcement action is re-active, as opposed to pro-active, it will be some time before we able to make any judgement about how effective this will be - in individual cases, and in demonstrating the importance of compliance to others.

    Although we have to give people time to do their job, please be assured that the fair telecoms campaign and Ofcom are watching this very closely and will ourselves take action, in relation to enforcement procedures, if and when it is necessary.

    Natural cynicism offers a healthy protection against complacency. We are however very cautious about allowing Service Providers to believe that they have nothing to fear from failure to comply, by publicly suggesting that enforcement is not robust. Our tactic must be to withhold any such public suggestion until such time as it is both necessary and likely to lead to an improvement. Notwithstanding tactical considerations, I am genuinely confident that this will work - it has already caused a mass evacuation of the 084 ranges and this is still continuing at a pace.



    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by SilentCallsVictim on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 11:11pm

    nicholas43 wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 2:10pm:

    SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 7:17pm:
    We are working with partners on the idea of an authoritative publicly-accessible website to verify the level of Service Charge which applies to any number. This is actually disturbingly difficult to achieve in practice, because of the nature of the network of commercial agreements between originating and terminating telephone companies, which retains some of the legacy of a nationalised service.

    In my opinion, Ofcom ought to have compiled such a list, and should make it available on their website. I have managed to get recorded by Ofcom my complaint that they have not done it.

    The fair telecoms campaign essentially agrees with this point. Ofcom has however always been reluctant to allow any possible misunderstanding of its role to emerge. It only sets the general rules; it is the telephone companies and service providers that choose their rates and maintain the tables.

    Even though it failed to compel this to be provided, Ofcom does support the idea of there being an authoritative lookup facility - so long as this does nothing to undermine the importance of individual Service Providers declaring their chosen rate. We agree that the direct relationship between the caller and the person being called (with the financial terms of this relationship being declared in context) is the fundamental point that must remain.

    We see the facility we are working on as serving to support accurate declaration of Service Charges by Service Providers, not in any way to replace it. We hope to gain explicit support from Ofcom by the assignment of its authority, in a suitable form. I promised not to give a running commentary on work in progress, but my level of general optimism has increased since I wrote the original posting.

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by japitts on Jul 4th, 2015 at 12:44pm
    As a matter of interest, where are complaints best directed in the first instance if non-compliant companies ignore the "query"?

    I've got a link to the ASA online complaints form, but do Ofcom log these specifically?

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by Ian01 on Jul 4th, 2015 at 12:50pm

    Complaints...

    ASA for numbers with a Service Charge of up to 7p (i.e. 084 and some 087).

    PhonepayPlus for numbers with a Service Charge of more than 7p (i.e. most 087, 09 and 118).


    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone (Eurotunnel)
    Post by bigjohn on Jul 4th, 2015 at 1:09pm
    Euro Tunnel  have two 0844 numbers one has a service charge of 4p the other 7p, They think its ok to generalise and  to say the service charge is  up to 7p  a minute. No breakdown for each individual number. Plus your note they place the info as far away as possible from the number as possible.

    As the service charges for each number are not specifically clear and they are not prominently shown in close proximity to the numbers they are not complying.

    It makes you wonder if this a deliberate effort to lessen the impact when customers seek the contact numbers.



    See http://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/contact-us/

    I have pointed this out  to the customer relations dept,and will keep you posted.





    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by bigjohn on Jul 4th, 2015 at 1:34pm

    japitts wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 12:44pm:
    As a matter of interest, where are complaints best directed in the first instance if non-compliant companies ignore the "query"?


    I have found in the past a tweet or a post on the official facebook page often gets results.

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone (Eurotunnel)
    Post by SilentCallsVictim on Jul 4th, 2015 at 1:57pm

    bigjohn wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 1:09pm:
    Euro Tunnel  have two 0844 numbers …
    As the service charges for each number are not specifically clear and they are not prominently shown in close proximity to the numbers they are not complying.

    I would suggest that the issue be raised, initially, with the Customer Relations Team. (As stated in the initial post, we are happy for this to be done as a "supporter of the Fair Telecoms Campaign", and I will be very happy to be copied with the message.)

    The page (http://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/Complaints-procedure/) containing the relevant email address (customer.relations@eurotunnel.com) is linked from that quoted.

    We will have to wait to see how rigidly the specific terms of the requirements are applied when determinations are made by the ASA in individual cases. Use of annotations and footnotes is not uncommon for this type of information, however I can see no justification for not giving the particular Service Charge for each number - as this is part of the essence of the clarity now being applied.

    More importantly the imposition of a Service Charge on calls from customers who already have bought tickets and are looking only for the Call Centre or Recorded Travel Information numbers (perhaps communicated by a third party) is a breach of terms of the Consumer Contract regulations.

    The call cost information in respect of calls to the France Call Centre (from any location, including within France) is undoubtedly incorrect.

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by SilentCallsVictim on Jul 4th, 2015 at 2:14pm

    japitts wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 12:44pm:
    As a matter of interest, where are complaints best directed in the first instance if non-compliant companies ignore the "query"?

    I've got a link to the ASA online complaints form, but do Ofcom log these specifically?

    The regulator covering each type of situation is given in the leading post of this thread. This also expresses our willingness to be referred to in any enquiry (and copied in to messages, so as to receive the response) - this may help with escalation and imply the threat of media exposure - which need not be a bluff!

    Ofcom itself has no statutory power to enforce compliance by users of Service Numbers, and so cannot intervene in particular cases. Having designed and implemented the 'Clear Call Rates for Everyone" measures with co-operation from others, be assured that Ofcom will be monitoring the effectiveness of the measures in general, and the specific activity to this end by others, very closely. We understand that this applies at the highest level in the organisation.

    There are situations where the Fair Telecoms Campaign is perhaps better placed than Ofcom to help the shared objectives being achieved and our close working relationship continues - despite our independence and total difference of view on many issues.


    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by derrick on Jul 4th, 2015 at 4:52pm

    SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 2:14pm:

    japitts wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 12:44pm:
    As a matter of interest, where are complaints best directed in the first instance if non-compliant companies ignore the "query"?

    I've got a link to the ASA online complaints form, but do Ofcom log these specifically?

    The regulator covering each type of situation is given in the leading post of this thread. This also expresses our willingness to be referred to in any enquiry (and copied in to messages, so as to receive the response) - this may help with escalation and imply the threat of media exposure - which need not be a bluff!

    Ofcom itself has no statutory power to enforce compliance by users of Service Numbers, and so cannot intervene in particular cases. Having designed and implemented the 'Clear Call Rates for Everyone" measures with co-operation from others, be assured that Ofcom will be monitoring the effectiveness of the measures in general, and the specific activity to this end by others, very closely. We understand that this applies at the highest level in the organisation.

    There are situations where the Fair Telecoms Campaign is perhaps better placed than Ofcom to help the shared objectives being achieved and our close working relationship continues - despite our independence and total difference of view on many issues.


    As usual a regulator with no teeth, no wonder companies ignore "regulation" and complaints when there is no-one to enforce!

    Where is the point re your comment "Ofcom will be monitoring the effectiveness of the measures in general, and the specific activity to this end by others, very closely", when no-one appears to be able to enforce?

    This will be another game similar to years,(and still going on), of 0845 & 0870 being described as Local rate and National rate respectively and no-one enforcing. do you really think all will comply? Or even the majority.
    .

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by nicholas43 on Jul 5th, 2015 at 2:43pm
    I am wondering if anyone (including Ofcom?) foresaw that telcos would set such enormous access charges. On the face of it, the cost of connecting a call to 08x, and transferring a significant payment to the terminating provider (including the service charge), can't be any more than the cost of connecting a call to 01, and transferring a small payment to the terminating provider.
    An organisation such as Traveline, which is proving a service that some people actually need, now finds that most of its customers will be paying something like 50p a minute, of which Traveline will actually receive less than 5p. It would make huge sense for Traveline to offer an 03 number to users who are willing to register a debit card. They could then pay (say) 10p a minute, of which Traveline would actually receive 9p.
    Similarly, the BBC would be wise to invite viewers to register a debit card and pay (say) 10p to vote, instead of paying £1 to their telco, of which the BBC gets 3p (or whatever).
    And it is, at last, in principle, now transparently obvious that calls to 118 are only for the mindlessly extravagant, or sadly daft.
    The only rational use of service charges has become (it seems to me) sweaty-palm calls to 09 numbers, by callers who wish to think they remain anonymous. 

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by Ian01 on Jul 5th, 2015 at 3:07pm

    For calls to 09 and 118 numbers, the Access Charge has effectively been reduced, in many cases significantly. Mobile operators often took more than £1 per minute as their share.

    Under the old system, Virgin Media charged 41p per minute for calls to 0845 numbers, of which they retained 39p. Their Access Charge is now 36p per minute.

    Under the old system, EE charged 40p per minute for calls to  0845 numbers, of which they retained 38p. Their Access Charge is now 44p per minute.

    These aren't massive differences to the old charges, but are now fully exposed.

    The biggest change is with BT. Their rates have always been capped by the NTS Retail Condition. That regulation has now ended and their Access Charge has changed, from effectively zero, to 9.58p per minute.

    Declaration of Service Charge now makes it much easier to challenge unjustified and inappropriate usage of 084, 087 and 09 numbers. Consumers must now take that opportunity to do so.


    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by bbb_uk on Jul 5th, 2015 at 5:37pm

    Ian01 wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 3:07pm:
    For calls to 09 and 118 numbers, the Access Charge has effectively been reduced, in many cases significantly. Mobile operators often took more than £1 per minute as their share....
    I believe there should have been two "access charges", one for service numbers as they're known (ie 08x) and one for premium rate regulated numbers (ie 09x and 118).

    I know it was easier to simply have one access charge to try and make it easier but it wouldn't have been that much harder for consumers to know there were two service charges.  This may have kept 08x charges down.

    What is probably happening now is the OCP's may actually get more revenue now than they did under the old rules because obviously there is more calls to 08x numbers than 09x and also now those that ring 08x numbers are going to get "bill shock" due to how much they have increased in cost (in total).

    It's not that easy to see what your telephone provider's access charge is.  That may chance over time (probably a long time giving Ofcom's record).

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by Ian01 on Jul 5th, 2015 at 6:28pm

    If Ofcom had allowed a split level Access Charge, one rate for 084 and 087 and another rate for 09 and 118, we would probably now find ourselves in the situation where the Access Charge for 084 and 087 calls was so low that the combined Access Charge and Service Charge was nearly always cheaper than an out of bundle call to an 01, 02 or 03 number. That would lead to many more businesses adopting 084 and 087 numbers, on the advice from their supplier that they were cheaper, and completely ignoring the fact that most callers have inclusive minutes for calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers. As calls to 084 and 087 numbers become more expensive, the easier it is to argue against their use. Ofcom rightly recognises that 084 and 087 numbers are also premium rate and groups all premium numbers together under the same call charge system. There is intrinsically no difference between an 0845 number with a 7p per minute Service Charge, an 0870 number with a 13p per minute Service Charge and an 09 number with a 15p per minute Service Charge.

    For the purposes of PhonepayPlus regulation, a new category has been introduced to define what is covered. Controlled Premium Rate Services (CPRS) include:
    - chatlines, irrespective of prefix used or call price
    - adult entertainment services, irrespective of prefix used or call price
    - internet dialler based services, irrespective of prefix used or call price
    - 087 numbers with a Service Charge of more than 7p per minute or per call
    - 09 numbers
    - 118 numbers
    - any number where the benefit to the called party and their telecoms provider is more than 10p per minute including VAT; this latter definition mops up various 070 and 076 numbers.

    Given that the effective Access Charge for 09 and 118 calls has been massively reduced, and while it has been increased by a small amount for many 084 and 087 calls, I don't believe that the new system gives OCPs vast amounts of additional income. I am sure they will have budgeted for an increase, but the actual figures may be surprisingly low. This must also be set against rapidly declining levels of calls to 084 and 087 numbers. The government has all but abandoned them. Customer service lines are moving away from them. Banks and insurance companies are now also moving away.


    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by nicholas43 on Jul 5th, 2015 at 7:16pm

    bbb_uk wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 5:37pm:
    I believe there should have been two "access charges", one for service numbers as they're known (ie 08x) and one for premium rate regulated numbers (ie 09x and 118).

    I don't know how the settlement between telcos works. But, in principle, I can't see any technical justification for charging more, per call, to transfer a large termination charge (eg to 118) than a small one (eg to 01). Of course, I can see the commercial justification: a mug who is being ripped off by a "service" provider probably won't notice if his originating provider rips him off as well.
    So, were colossal undeclared access charges on calls to 118 and 09 cross-subsidising cheap anytime bundles for calls to 01 02 and 03? If so, will we see bundles to 01 02 and 03 becoming dearer?

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by Ian01 on Jul 5th, 2015 at 7:40pm

    Increasing levels of calls to 03 numbers may push up the cost of inclusive call plans, unless the termination rate is cut. Another factor that may push up the cost of inclusive call plans is the almost inevitable introduction of inclusive calls to mobile numbers from landlines. By April 2017, the Mobile Termination Rate will be very slightly lower than the current termination rate for calls to 03 numbers.

    One thing that has to be factored into the Access Charge is the Bad Debt Provision, and there is a big argument that it should have instead been bundled in with the Service Charge.

    On the subject of multiple levels of Access Charges, see also http://www.lebara.co.uk/uk-calling while it lasts (hopefully not for long).


    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by nicholas43 on Jul 5th, 2015 at 8:50pm

    Ian01 wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 7:40pm:
    Another factor that may push up the cost of inclusive call plans is the almost inevitable introduction of inclusive calls to mobile numbers from landlines.

    Our current landline bundle (with moribund EE) already includes 1000 min/month of calls to mobiles.
    Pricing telephony has become a totally black art. A tiny minority of consumers who use most of their bundle most months are subsidised by (a) people who use a lot less than their bundle; and (b) people who use more than their bundle, and pay penal rates for out-of-bundle calls.

    Quote:
    One thing that has to be factored into the Access Charge is the Bad Debt Provision, and there is a big argument that it should have instead been bundled in with the Service Charge.

    How could that have worked? Consumers pay their originating provider. They have (which is the root of the muddle) no direct financial relationship with the "service" provider.


    Quote:
    On the subject of multiple levels of Access Charges, see also http://www.lebara.co.uk/uk-calling while it lasts (hopefully not for long).

    Yes. Are Lebara's managers (a) illiterate; or (b) canny, knowing that Ofcom will take months/years to stop them, and meanwhile their customers will have no effective redress?

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by bbb_uk on Jul 5th, 2015 at 10:31pm

    Ian01 wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 6:28pm:
    If Ofcom had allowed a split level Access Charge, one rate for 084 and 087 and another rate for 09 and 118, we would probably now find ourselves in the situation where the Access Charge for 084 and 087 calls was so low that the combined Access Charge and Service Charge was nearly always cheaper than an out of bundle call to an 01, 02 or 03 number. That would lead to many more businesses adopting 084 and 087 numbers, on the advice from their supplier that they were cheaper...
    The other regulation that stops use of using a premium number (whether service numbers or not) for calling a customer services would also have stopped many businesses adopting service rate numbers.  The exception being for sales enquiries and those businesses that are currently exempt from having to provide normal numbers for customer services as they currently are now.

    Therefore, I still believe that having two service charges may have kept 08x calls down a bit.

    It would be interesting to know how many businesses would have chosen to swap to geographical charged numbers if they only had to contend with Ofcom's regulation over clearer calls (ie the other regulation didn't exist)!!

    Obviously, a pure guess here but I would say only a few would have moved away from their existing 08x number just because they had to declare a service charge of x ppm.


    Ian01 wrote on Jul 5th, 2015 at 6:28pm:
    ...Given that the effective Access Charge for 09 and 118 calls has been massively reduced, and while it has been increased by a small amount for many 084 and 087 calls...
    As far as normal consumers are concerned, the cost of calling 084 (for example)  probably doubled (and more) in cost under the new system, at least from landlines anyhow.  Mobiles, don't appear to have gone up (again overall) that much under the new system compared to old system.

    One quick example is that calls to 0845 number from sky landline was around (I believe) 8ppm whereas now it's probably double that to call most 0845 numbers as the access charge alone is more than old cost and then, as you say, you have probably an average price of 7ppm service charge.

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by Ian01 on Jul 5th, 2015 at 11:06pm

    Now that the 16p per call connection fee has been scrapped, short calls are now substantially cheaper.

    I read something a while back that suggested the average call length is only about two or three minutes.

    I guess a large number of calls are terminated within seconds when the caller realises there's a queue.


    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by derrick on Jul 7th, 2015 at 12:14pm
    Santander http://www.santander.co.uk/uk/help-support/contact-us/call-charge-information

    Still giving out old info, "Details correct as of 1 March 2013."  : -


    "Call charges for telephone numbers used on this website;-

    03 numbers
    Calls cost no more than calls to geographic numbers (01 or 02) and are included in inclusive minutes and discount schemes in the same way.

    0845 and 0870 numbers
    Calls from some fixed networks cost no more than a national rate call. Mobile and other providers' charges may vary.

    0800 and 0808 numbers
    Calls from UK landlines are free. Mobile charges may vary.

    0844 numbers (except the extensions listed below)
    Calls have a set up charge of up to 13p and then cost up to 4p per minute depending on your BT call plan. Calls from mobile and other providers' charges may vary.

    0844 561 / 0844 800 / 0844 879 / 0844 900 & 0844 999 numbers
    Calls have a set up charge of up to 15p and then cost up to 5.2p per minute (including VAT) depending on your BT call plan. Calls from mobile and other providers' charges may vary.

    Please check with your service provider for exact costs. Calls from abroad may cost significantly more. Details correct as of 1 March 2013."


    .

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone(Ambassador Theatres)
    Post by bigjohn on Jul 8th, 2015 at 11:20am
    Even when they do attempt to comply some do it half baked.

    EG: Give correct charges for 0844 numbers, Dont mention charge for the  0871 one number, and say in FAQ

    2. Calling the Customer Contact Centre 
    a.  What will it cost me to call?

    "We’re pleased to say that ATG doesn’t charge premium rates on any of our 0844 – numbers. All our phone lines charge at a national rate, though this may vary dependent on service providers and if you’re calling from a mobile phone. International calls are charged at a national rate.

    http://www.atgtickets.com/customer-care/contact-us/

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone(Durham Fire &Rescue)
    Post by bigjohn on Jul 8th, 2015 at 11:53am
    I am not looking for non compliance but if happen to see a service number mentioned in media i check out the odd one. From what i have seen so far not many have got it right.

    Heres a Fire Brigade using a 0845 number for non-emergency calls. No mention of the service charge .

    Plus surely they should be offering 01/02/03 access,Not 0845 in accordance with https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hmg-guidance-for-customer-service-lines


    https://www.ddfire.gov.uk/emergency-contacts

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by SilentCallsVictim on Jul 11th, 2015 at 11:16pm
    An interesting example of a failure to declare a Service Charge is found at:
    BBC using 084 telephone number - and breaching the Broadcasting Code

    Sunday morning TV viewers (BBC1 10:00) may wish to compare the screenshot from last Sunday with what is broadcast on 11 July!

    When we first drew attention to this, at the start of this year's series, we commented:

    Quote:
    we hope that this is a little slip that will be promptly corrected

    We understand that this will be done, albeit in stages. Stage 2 - changing the number - is not expected immediately, as it is also used by others within BBC Northern Ireland.


    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by bigjohn on Jul 12th, 2015 at 4:23am
    Commercial Radio Station. Magic FM

    http://www.magic.co.uk/faqs/contact-magic/

    not yet complying.

    Still  saying on site  "Studio number: 08 444 777 888 Calls to this number will be charged at £0.05/minute. Mobile charges may be higher."


    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by Ian01 on Jul 12th, 2015 at 10:21am

    Sunday Morning Live now says ...


    On screen:

    Phone 08459 555 678
    Calls cost up to 7p/min plus your network's Access Charge.
    Calls from mobiles may cost considerably more.


    Presenter:

    ... and you can also comment by phoning our number 08459 555 678.
    Calls cost up to 7p a minute from most landlines plus your network's Access Charge.
    Calls from mobiles, though, can be considerably more.


    The new announcement is still in breach of the Broadcast Code which requires the Service Charge for this number, not a general 'up to' statement and does not require anything to be said about landlines, other providers or mobiles.


    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by SilentCallsVictim on Jul 13th, 2015 at 3:14am

    Ian01 wrote on Jul 12th, 2015 at 10:21am:
    Sunday Morning Live now says ...

    Full details and clips on our blogging - Sunday Morning Live - struggling to get it right


    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by CJT-80 on Jul 13th, 2015 at 7:51pm

    bigjohn wrote on Jul 12th, 2015 at 4:23am:
    Commercial Radio Station. Magic FM

    http://www.magic.co.uk/faqs/contact-magic/

    not yet complying.

    Still  saying on site  "Studio number: 08 444 777 888 Calls to this number will be charged at £0.05/minute. Mobile charges may be higher."


    Oddly Kiss FM (also owned by Bauer Media) does have the right information - http://www.kissfmuk.com/contact-us/

    Why can one part of their organisation get it right, but the other cant?

    :-?

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by Ian01 on Jul 19th, 2015 at 10:18am

    Sunday Morning Live still can't get it right. Today they say...

    Phone 08459 555 678.
    Calls cost up to 7p per minute plus your network's Access Charge.

    The requirement is to specify the Service Charge for their own number, not a generic 'up to' price.


    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by Ian01 on Jul 26th, 2015 at 10:16am

    Sunday Morning Live finally got it right. Today they say...

    Phone 08459 555 678.
    Calls cost 2p per minute plus your network's Access Charge.

    The next step must be to replace 0845 with 0345...


    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by Kiwi_g on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 4:24pm
    Can anyone assist me.  In walking in my local town, I noticed that the local bus company (Arriva) showed an 0844 contact number on the back of their busses and for bus information, the bus stops gave an 0871 number.  Do the new regulations mean that where everywhere an NGN higher rate number is shown, price information needs to be given?

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by bigjohn on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 4:36pm

    Kiwi_g wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 4:24pm:
    Can anyone assist me.  In walking in my local town, I noticed that the local bus company (Arriva) showed an 0844 contact number on the back of their busses and for bus information, the bus stops gave an 0871 number.  Do the new regulations mean that where everywhere an NGN higher rate number is shown, price information needs to be given?


    Yes.It clearly states they should....

    "Review all your materials and advertising.  If your business or organisation is contacted on a number beginning 084, 087, 09 or 118, you must ensure that your service charge is clearly displayed wherever you advertise or promote that number. The service charge should be prominent and in close proximity to the number itself. The recommended form of wording is:

    “Calls cost xp [or xp per minute] plus your phone company's access charge.”

    This is likely to mean that your service charge should be provided alongside the related number in all communications directed towards current or potential users of the service, where the use of the number is promoted or advertised. These communications are likely to include as a minimum:

    Any broadcast advertisements on television or radio;
    Any press advertising;
    Any online advertising, including paid-for search listings;
    Advertising bill boards and posters;
    Public notices, press releases and other public relations material which promotes access to the service offered on the numbers, or promotes contact with the organisation using the number;
    Point of sale displays and other fixed advertising;
    Packages, wrappers, labels, tickets, timetables and price lists;
    Service directories; and
    Company websites."

    https://www.ukcalling.info/industry

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by SilentCallsVictim on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 11:50pm
    With reference to the preceding comments and all similar cases.

    We suggest that the best approach to deal with those who fail to comply is to follow these steps:
    [olist]
  • Approach the company themselves, directing them to the advice from Ofcom at http://ukcalling.info.
  • Consider making a complaint to the ASA.
  • If this is not appropriate or unsuccessful, report the matter to Ofcom[/olist]
    The fair telecoms campaign is directly engaged on significant cases and will be happy to help resolve any case and draw public attention to significant cases.

  • Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by CJT-80 on Aug 4th, 2015 at 9:39am

    Kiwi_g wrote on Aug 3rd, 2015 at 4:24pm:
    Can anyone assist me.  In walking in my local town, I noticed that the local bus company (Arriva) showed an 0844 contact number on the back of their busses and for bus information, the bus stops gave an 0871 number.  Do the new regulations mean that where everywhere an NGN higher rate number is shown, price information needs to be given?


    Good Morning, the 0844 number operated by Arriva Bus needs to be updated by Arriva as it's been replaced by an 0344 number. It would therefore make sense for Arriva to replace the information to include the new number as opposed to declaring the charges on the old 0844 number.

    The 0871 number is operated by Traveline who indeed should declare the relevant costs of calling their number (12p per minute plus an access charge from the callers network).  On a personal note I feel that the Traveline service needs to scrap the 087 number altogether.

    Title: BARCLAYCARD
    Post by derrick on Aug 24th, 2015 at 9:49am
    Barclaycard have gone mad with call charge information, don't know 080 are free from mobiles and still citing BT as reference for charges:

    http://www.barclaycard.co.uk/personal/call-charges


    Call Charges

    Call Charges and Information

    All Barclaycard customer service lines are non-premium rate numbers. Calls to 0800 and 0808 numbers are free from UK landlines. Mobile charges may vary. Calls to 03 numbers use free plan minutes if available; otherwise they cost the same as calls to 01/02 prefix numbers. Calls may be monitored or recorded in order to maintain high levels of security and quality of service.

    We occasionally quote telephone numbers for other companies that are not 0800 or 03. Call charges applicable to these numbers are shown below:

    • 0845 – For BT residential customers, calls will cost no more than 5.5p per minute, plus up to a 16p call set-up fee (current at January 2015). The price on non-BT phone lines may be different.
    • 0870 – For BT residential customers, calls will cost no more than 8.5p per minute, plus up to a 16p call set-up fee (current at January 2015). The price on non-BT phone lines may be different.
    • 0844  556/581/811/824/848 – For BT residential customers, calls will cost no more than 5.5p per minute, plus up to a 16p call set-up fee (current at January 2015). The price on non-BT phone lines may be different. Please check the BT price list for charges for other 0844 numbers as charges vary depending on the 3 digits following 0844.
    • 0871 For BT residential customers,  calls will cost no more than 15p per minute, plus a call set -up fee (current at January 2015).  The price on non-BT phone lines may be different.
    • 01 & 02 – Local tariff will apply.


    .

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by Ian01 on Aug 24th, 2015 at 9:57am

    The Barclaycard page hasn't been updated since January 2015 and is seriously out of date.

    They fail to recognise that all 084 and 087 numbers ARE premium rate. The premium is now separately declared as the Service Charge.

    New FCA rules mean that the 084 and 087 numbers will need to be gone by 26 October 2015.


    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone (Eurotunnel)
    Post by Invictamoto on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 2:23pm

    bigjohn wrote on Jul 4th, 2015 at 1:09pm:
    Euro Tunnel  have two 0844 numbers one has a service charge of 4p the other 7p, They think its ok to generalise and  to say the service charge is  up to 7p  a minute. No breakdown for each individual number. Plus your note they place the info as far away as possible from the number as possible.

    As the service charges for each number are not specifically clear and they are not prominently shown in close proximity to the numbers they are not complying.

    It makes you wonder if this a deliberate effort to lessen the impact when customers seek the contact numbers.





    I have pointed this out  to the customer relations dept,and will keep you posted.


    Took some scrolling but found a link to the actual number to call.....

    Much easier to call 01303 282061 like us locals do....

    Title: Re: Clear Call Rates for Everyone
    Post by Ian01 on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 2:36pm

    The Sunday Times (1 November 2015) gave a clear account of what is required and highlighted various non-compliant organisations.

    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/business/money/Consumer/article1626414.ece


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