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Message started by allegro on Dec 2nd, 2015 at 7:45am

Title: Santander bank - still offending
Post by allegro on Dec 2nd, 2015 at 7:45am
While most of their publicly visible numbers are now 0800 there are still residues of 0845. When I log in to my account I see:

"This is the image and phrase you have selected. If you do not recognise these, do not log on.

Instead call us on our helpdesk number - 0845 600 4388."

When I needed to contact them yesterday about a large transfer the number given on the web page was 0845 606 2929. Fortuantely SayNo database came up trumps with an unverified number: 0800 731 2345 which worked.

Another Santander anomaly is that when you google them, the information panel that google gives says: Emergency: 0844 891 5062 as the only phone number.

I think it's another of those cases where a large organisation has a residue of 084 numbers and nobody has bothered to flush them out.

Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by Ian01 on Dec 2nd, 2015 at 8:41am

If the old numbers simply play a free-to-caller announcement telling people to hang up and re-dial the new number, then there's no major issue here.

If the old numbers still work and put you through to someone, then that needs to be fixed. No doubt the old numbers do not have an indication of the Service Charge next to them, as required by Ofcom - in which case, you can be reasonably certain they have been simply overlooked.

It will be less effort to edit the number than to add pricing information next to it. In any case, the new FCA regulations effective 26 October 2015 require an 01, 02, 03 or 080 number for contact by existing customers.


Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by allegro on Dec 6th, 2015 at 7:54am
I have just formally complained to Santander about their continued use of 0845 numbers. In the automated response email was this gem:


Quote:
If you think you may have revealed your security details in any way, please call us immediately on 0845 600 4388. We're available 7am to 11pm Monday to Saturday, and 9am to 9pm on Sunday.

Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by Ian01 on Dec 6th, 2015 at 9:45am

When you call that 0845 number a recorded announcement tells you to hang up and re-dial an 0800 number.

The announcement also informs that this is a free call from landlines and from mobiles.

This isn't a case of 'please stop using 0845 numbers'. Instead, it's a case of 'please update your website and other communications to show your new numbers'.
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Asantander.co.uk+0845
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Asantander.co.uk+08456


Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending 0845 numbers
Post by bazzerfewi on Dec 6th, 2015 at 10:45am
Santander 0845 600 4388 the alternative number is 0345 6004388. This alternative number is available on the database.

Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by Ian01 on Dec 6th, 2015 at 10:50am

This isn't about trying to find alternative numbers - if you call the 0845 number you're told to call the new 0800 number.

This is about getting them to update their website to show those new numbers.




Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by bazzerfewi on Dec 6th, 2015 at 11:03am
OK, I will contact the relevant department and inform them that they need to alter this entry. I have contacted British Gas and they were more than happy to alter the web entries, although some companies just ignore the information given.

Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by Ian01 on Dec 6th, 2015 at 11:17am

It's not just this entry. It's hundreds of entries, as listed here:
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Asantander.co.uk+0845
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Asantander.co.uk+08456


Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by SilentCallsVictim on Dec 6th, 2015 at 11:18am

bazzerfewi wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 11:03am:
OK, I will contact the relevant department and inform them that they need to alter this entry. I have contacted British Gas and they were more than happy to alter the web entries, although some companies just ignore the information given.

This is a far and important point.

It should not be so, but many organisations find it difficult to deal with the administrative changes necessary to support a positive decision to change a telephone number.

Our experience is that, when you contact the right people - not always easy, failure to update published information is normally corrected relatively quickly and with gratitude and apology.

The fair telecoms campaign contacts organisations when it can, with the implied threat of media exposure of those reluctant to put their house in order. This should not however be necessary in all cases.

Where an organisation has "said no to 084/087", one would hope that members of this forum would wish to help its voice to be heard clearly, rather than seeking to encourage further use of this site in cases where it should be unnecessary.

Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by bazzerfewi on Dec 6th, 2015 at 6:30pm
I have contacted companies large and small and while some ignore or just refuse to comply (BHS) being one of them.

British Gas is now in the process of changing all 084/087 numbers, they contacted me and stated that this was the case and also appologised

Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by allegro on Dec 7th, 2015 at 3:48pm
I received this reply today. Not exactly wonderful.


Quote:
Good Afternoon Mr ******

Thank you for your email regarding the FCA regulations and the use of 0845 phone numbers. I have recorded your comments under reference 5519931.

I would like to explain that Santander was one of the first banks to change its main line numbers to 0800 and has committed to have all servicing lines across the bank migrated to 0800 by 2016.

If I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me or alternatively you can speak to one of my colleagues by calling 0800 9 123 123. Lines are open Monday to Saturday 7am to 11pm & Sunday 8am to 10pm.

Kind regards,

*******

Santander Customer Services

Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by bazzerfewi on Dec 7th, 2015 at 4:43pm
who's kidding who

Headquarters: United Kingdom
CEO: Nathan Bostock
Emergency: 0844 891 5062
Founded: January 11, 2010
Parent organization: Santander Group
Subsidiaries: Bradford & Bingley, Cater Allen, Santander Private Banking

Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by bazzerfewi on Dec 7th, 2015 at 4:44pm
And that was without any effort and took me around 1 minute.

Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by bazzerfewi on Dec 7th, 2015 at 5:05pm

allegro wrote on Dec 7th, 2015 at 3:48pm:
I received this reply today. Not exactly wonderful.


Quote:
Good Afternoon Mr ******

Thank you for your email regarding the FCA regulations and the use of 0845 phone numbers. I have recorded your comments under reference 5519931.

I would like to explain that Santander was one of the first banks to change its main line numbers to 0800 and has committed to have all servicing lines across the bank migrated to 0800 by 2016.

If I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me or alternatively you can speak to one of my colleagues by calling 0800 9 123 123. Lines are open Monday to Saturday 7am to 11pm & Sunday 8am to 10pm.

Kind regards,

*******

Santander Customer Services


If Santander are attempting to elliminate Premium rate numbers they are not doing very well
0845 765 4321
0844 891 5062
0844 335 6344
0844 800 6038
0844 809 4953
0843 227 7580
0871 230 1213
0844 335 6630

These are a few of the numbers all from the Santander Site within a few minutes

Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by bazzerfewi on Dec 7th, 2015 at 5:39pm
I have logged the complaint with Santander let us see how they respond, even the emergency CEO contact details were via a 0871 number

Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by allegro on Dec 7th, 2015 at 7:28pm
I have escalated my complaint. I've also given a link to this thread and warned that there could be adverse publicity.

Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by allegro on Dec 8th, 2015 at 11:16am
Response to my escalation. Not the brightest coin in the piggy bank.


Quote:
Good morning *******

Thank you for your email, I m sorry you are unhappy with our response and I have registered your dissatisfaction under reference number 5521892.

However, I am failing to understand your issue, other than what my colleague Tarun outlined previously, although I thank you for your observations which have been recorded.

If I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me or alternatively you can speak to one of my colleagues by calling 0800 9123123. Lines are open Monday to Saturday 7am to 11pm & Sunday 8am to 10pm.

Kind regards,

******

Santander Customer Services

Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by bazzerfewi on Dec 8th, 2015 at 4:26pm
It doen't appear to have addressed the issue in regard to 087 premium rate numbers. I have also contacted Santander and my call has been esculated to the next level. The agent recorded my details as I contacted them verbally and I am awaiting the response, he assured me that all calls are responded to and he took my mobile number as a contact source. If I do not receive a satisfactory response I will re-contact them, if other members wish to make contact it would assit in the campaign. There are a number of Free phone numbers on the site.

Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by SilentCallsVictim on Dec 8th, 2015 at 7:22pm
Can someone please clarify the issue here.

Are 084/087 numbers still being used for particular services, other than those covered by 080/03/01/02 numbers?
This would be a breach of the FCA requirements.

Alternatively, is it simply a case of getting current published information up-to-date with recent number changes?

There may be some of each, but the difference is most significant.

One also needs to check that website references are to current documents, rather than to old material which carried the correct number at the time of publication.




SilentCallsVictim wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 11:18am:
This is a far and important point.

I meant to say


Quote:
This is a fair and important point.

Apologies. :(

Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by allegro on Dec 8th, 2015 at 9:48pm
To make it absolutely clear. As of a few moments ago 084x numbers are still being published on the Santander website for use by existing customers in connection with their accounts. This is in clear breach of FCA requirements.

Here is an example that I got a few seconds ago when logging into my online banking:


Quote:
This is the image and phrase you have selected. If you do not recognise these, do not log on.

Instead call us on our helpdesk number - 0845 600 4388.

Opening hours are 7am to 11pm Monday to Saturday and 9am to 9pm Sundays.


I have not rung any of these numbers (Thanks to SayNo) but others in this thread have said that at least one of them is no longer active and asks you to ring an 0800 number instead.

Hence the problem I am complaining about is that Santander are still publicising 084x numbers even though they aren't actually using them.

It may well be that other 084x and 087x numbers are still in use by Santander. This page is an especially nasty example with a mixture of 0843, 0844 and even 0871 numbers.
http://www.santander.co.uk/uk/insurance/car-insurance

Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by bazzerfewi on Dec 9th, 2015 at 11:45am
Thanks for your input, I have contacted Santander and although they state that they are CSA compliant they are still publishing 084 numbers. I have started the process and I am awaiting their reply.

Santander are not compliant at present in my view because they are still publishing 087/084 numbers.

Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by allegro on Feb 10th, 2017 at 5:12pm
More than a year later there are still a few 0845 numbers published by Santander, though fewer than before. The 2 examples I cited in the complaint were when you log out of their 123 account it gives an 0845 contact number in case of problems.


Quote:
Before logging off review your activity summary below. If you have a query about any of the details displayed contact our Helpdesk on 0845 600 4388 for assistance.


The other was in an auto generated email they sent me in response to my complaint!

I've complained again and after some initial corporate drivel they now claim to be sorting it out.

If you actually ring one of the 0845 numbers you get a message telling you to redial an 0800 number. This means that although they have officially abolished 0845 numbers (hooray) they still haven't ferreted out all the odd ones on their website (boo).

Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by NGMsGhost on Apr 29th, 2017 at 8:35pm

allegro wrote on Feb 10th, 2017 at 5:12pm:
More than a year later there are still a few 0845 numbers published by Santander, though fewer than before. The 2 examples I cited in the complaint were when you log out of their 123 account it gives an 0845 contact number in case of problems.


allegro,

Although you have nearly got there (after a very long interval indeed) with Santander it does strike me that your error here was in playing their game by dealing with the dumb and unskilled labour in customer services (who are frequently not intellectually capable of comprehending such matters, especially if they also have difficulty with speaking the English language and/or are foreign nationals domiciled in India or the Philippinnes) instead of escalating matters straight to their Compliance Officer (as they are a bank regulated by the FCA) and if having no joy there then on to their CEO as detailed at www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-9340&k=5904e5f3&c=Santander%20Group%20Chief%20Executive

One reason I withdrew from the fray here is because of the vast and disproprtionate amount of personal effort required to eliminate a common problem that many of the offenders were corporately programmed against doing anything about. So if I didn't have a personal relationship with that organisation that required me to use its 084/7 number it simply wasn't worth all the time and effort, stress and emotional damage involved (which I get plenty more of elsewhere through other problems in my life such as being a feudal leasehold serf of an oppressive mediaevil landlord (otherwise know as our residents management company, dominated by people who are themselves leaseholders or flat owners)

Ultimately we have still lost anyway because BT group are still getting extremely fat on the additional interconnect costs of 03 compared to 01/02 (this is the main reason per call costs with 18185 and 1899 have gone up so drastically from 0p per hour to over 60p per hour as 03 numbers are now such a huge part of the daytime call volumes that fixed line providers carry).

In addition BT is making a massive amount out of the extraordinary increase in just 13 years in line rental costs from only 6.33 per month in 2004 (when price controls on BT were removed by Ofcom) to 18.99 per month or so at the present time. Compared to cumulative inflation of no more than 30% in the same time period.

There is also no competition on fixed line rental as all the other parties in the marketplace such as Sky and TalkTalk or Plusnet have to buy the line rental at whatever inflated price BT Wholesale is now demanding from them. Basically those charges have gone up by exactly the same percentages as BT Retail line rental.

So basically an unfair and unreasonable set of inter connect charges by BT we could avoid on 084/7 numbers have been replaced by charges we cannot avoid (extortionate BT line rental that has nothing at all to do with the cost of operating the copper wires but everything to do with BT making up for lost revenue on fixed line calls by replacing it with ripofff copper line phone rental charges.

Of course if WiMax had not been blocked in this country by the regulators and the mobile networks actually had good enough 4G coverage to provide us with an alternative to fixed line broadband then BT would face some competition. But now that BT own the largest mobile operator (EE) there is fat chance of that ever happening!.

So all in all its all been a huge waste of time (as I believe Arthur Dent once said in The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy about the out evolved cavemen) as BT continue to rip everybody off and remains the large, inefficent and bloated fatcat (essentially comparable in unreformability to the NHS) it has always been.

Of course BT being forced to sell off Openreach may have some kind of eventual impact but I expect it will find a way round that too.................

But anyway I look forward to your final report shortly telling us that over a year on (and much more than that since the EU Consumer Rights Directive was incorporate in to UK law) Santander has at last finally been forced to change all publicly facing phone numbers from 084 to 03!

Title: Re: Santander bank - still offending
Post by Ian01 on Apr 29th, 2017 at 11:00pm

Although Santander still publishes a few 0845 numbers, if anyone happens to call one, a recorded message immediately tells the caller to hang up and re-dial the new 0800 number.

It is almost impossible to remove every last reference to old phone numbers. There are still some London businesses listed online with 071, 081, 0171 or 0181 numbers - from 20 years ago.

Termination rates for 03 numbers are around 0.56p per minute, not all that much different to those for 01 and 02 numbers at around 0.21p per minute, but closer to termination rates for mobile numbers at around 0.49p per minute. I doubt anyone is getting rich on an extra 0.3p per minute. The termination rate for 03 numbers is certainly a lot less than the rates for 084 and 087 numbers - those being up to 7p or 13p per minute.

BT and other landline provider's line rental increases are extraordinary. I am sure this hasn't gone unnoticed but multiple steps will be needed to unravel and fix it.


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