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Main Forum >> Geographical Numbers Chat >> When will 084x and 087x be abolished?
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Message started by allegro on Nov 2nd, 2022 at 7:54am

Title: When will 084x and 087x be abolished?
Post by allegro on Nov 2nd, 2022 at 7:54am
Is there any progess on abolishing 084x and 087x numbers? Partly thanks to this site their use is diminishing but it would be nice if Ofcom pulled their finger out and abolished them. Or at least outlawed charging for them.

Title: Re: When will 084x and 087x be abolished?
Post by 03700000000 on Mar 9th, 2023 at 1:10pm
Why abolish them? When introduced they were cheaper to call than mobiles? In some cases still are. Are we proposing to ban mobiles? Make the costs understandable/uniform yes, but ban... why?

As your own festering pile of multitudinous duplicitous hypocrisy fine, only we should come clean. Millions made someone pay more to dial their 07 mobile than 0870 ever cost, and all were fine with this.

Don't for the life of us, bamboozle or come the 'holier than thou'. And pleeeeeeeeze... don't insult anyone's intelligence with facts after the event.

Unless you didn't get your 07, without dosing-up on  irony-pills, the only correct reply here is... "Yes, you have me."

And agree with me... if I ever complain about 0870 rates again, I'll scream down the street that:

"I am a festering pile of multitudinous duplicitous false virtue".

And call for 07 to be banned... first.

Title: Re: When will 084x and 087x be abolished?
Post by CJT-80 on Mar 9th, 2023 at 7:52pm

03700000000 wrote on Mar 9th, 2023 at 1:10pm:
Why abolish them? When introduced they were cheaper to call than mobiles? In some cases still are. Are we proposing to ban mobiles? Make the costs understandable/uniform yes, but ban... why?

As your own festering pile of multitudinous duplicitous hypocrisy fine, only we should come clean. Millions made someone pay more to dial their 07 mobile than 0870 ever cost, and all were fine with this.

Don't for the life of us, bamboozle or come the 'holier than thou'. And pleeeeeeeeze... don't insult anyone's intelligence with facts after the event.

Unless you didn't get your 07, without dosing-up on  irony-pills, the only correct reply here is... "Yes, you have me."

And agree with me... if I ever complain about 0870 rates again, I'll scream down the street that:

"I am a festering pile of multitudinous duplicitous false virtue".

And call for 07 to be banned... first.


Was there really a need for this type of reply 03700000000?

Title: Re: When will 084x and 087x be abolished?
Post by CJT-80 on Mar 9th, 2023 at 7:55pm

allegro wrote on Nov 2nd, 2022 at 7:54am:
Is there any progess on abolishing 084x and 087x numbers? Partly thanks to this site their use is diminishing but it would be nice if Ofcom pulled their finger out and abolished them. Or at least outlawed charging for them.


It's doubtful when Ofcom seem to have little interest in making any changes.  The biggest change would be the charging process.  No landline number business or residential should cost more to call.

Unless you are dialling a premium rate number then all other numbers should be included in standard call plans.

Title: Re: When will 084x and 087x be abolished?
Post by allegro on Mar 10th, 2023 at 6:41am
It does look as if Ofcom have forgotten about the subject. Just let their use wither and die naturally seem to be the policy, if there is one at all. The number of offenders is dropping but still far from zero.

Title: Re: When will 084x and 087x be abolished?
Post by SilentCallsVictim on Mar 10th, 2023 at 8:26am
The current Ofcom position was outlined in a Statement of 11 March 2022.
Page 4 (numbered 2) of this document includes the following:

Quote:
We will continue our review of the Numbering Plan and in the next stage we will look at the future role for 084 and 087 non-geographic numbers.

The detail of this is found in 2 previous consultations, links to which are found within the document.

The timing of this move depends on progress with the switch from the "traditional landline network" to use of IP. The consequent necessary revisions to the Numbering Plan are seen as an opportunity to clear up the mess represented by continuing use of 084 and 087.

Title: Re: When will 084x and 087x be abolished?
Post by CJT-80 on Mar 10th, 2023 at 5:41pm

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Mar 10th, 2023 at 8:26am:
The current Ofcom position was outlined in a Statement of 11 March 2022.
Page 4 (numbered 2) of this document includes the following:

Quote:
We will continue our review of the Numbering Plan and in the next stage we will look at the future role for 084 and 087 non-geographic numbers.

The detail of this is found in 2 previous consultations, links to which are found within the document.

The timing of this move depends on progress with the switch from the "traditional landline network" to use of IP. The consequent necessary revisions to the Numbering Plan are seen as an opportunity to clear up the mess represented by continuing use of 084 and 087.


Interesting, so they are "looking into it", it would seem.

Title: Re: When will 084x and 087x be abolished?
Post by allegro on Mar 11th, 2023 at 7:46am
"Looking into it" sounds like sitting back and doing nothing. As SCV says, the POTS switch-off looks like a good opportunity to do *something*. We wait expectantly....

Title: Re: When will 084x and 087x be abolished?
Post by CJT-80 on Mar 11th, 2023 at 8:41am
There is a lot happening with the PSTN (POTS) network at this time.  As the UK moves to IP based systems the "need" for 084/087 numbers should be diminished, however there are always going to be business' still trying to make extra money out of their customers.  I am sure Travelodge still uses 0871 numbers to contact their Hotels. 

If we continue to put pressure on those companies then that, along with hopefully Ofcom making changes, will make these numbers obsolete.

Title: Re: When will 084x and 087x be abolished?
Post by allegro on Mar 12th, 2023 at 6:47am
Travelodge are indeed big offenders. Though after you've booked you get an 0371 number. It's possible that just dialling 0371 instead of 0871 will connect.

To an ordinary innocent member ofthe public it seems so simple. If a business wants a cut, then use an 09 number, widely understood as premium. Otherwise all numbers are inclusive. Ofcom dealt with the 070 anomaly so why can't they just dictate that 084 and 087 shall be fixed.

Or is that too simple?

Title: Re: When will 084x and 087x be abolished?
Post by CJT-80 on Mar 12th, 2023 at 10:38am

allegro wrote on Mar 12th, 2023 at 6:47am:
Travelodge are indeed big offenders. Though after you've booked you get an 0371 number. It's possible that just dialling 0371 instead of 0871 will connect.

To an ordinary innocent member ofthe public it seems so simple. If a business wants a cut, then use an 09 number, widely understood as premium. Otherwise all numbers are inclusive. Ofcom dealt with the 070 anomaly so why can't they just dictate that 084 and 087 shall be fixed.

Or is that too simple?


Who knows if it's "too simple" we don't work in the telecoms industry or for Ofcom.   Maybe it's been decided it's better to work on moving the PSTN network 1st, and then dealing with number ranges.

Title: Re: When will 084x and 087x be abolished?
Post by 03700000000 on Mar 31st, 2023 at 4:17pm
[/quote]

Was there really a need for this type of reply 03700000000? [/quote]

Yes - because in the nicest possible way, the true answer and the core premise of this site remains ignored. And a fair portion of hypocrisy prevails.

It's OK for Joe/Joanna-public to sign-up by the million to what, at inception of this site was (and to point, still is) their own premium service. 07XX cost rather more to call than any 087X / 084X. Why is there never an admission to this hypocrisy?

And whilst we're on, in the context of then... 07XX, despite bill-shocking loved-ones, friends and family-members with such numbers, owners of 07XX numbers were dim enough NOT to get revenue-share. This despite higher call-charges than 087X / 084X.
Inflicting such call-charges, and on people you know puts 087X / 084X users into sainthood.

Instead, rather than coming clean, with an an "OK you got me", we weedle around it, and continue to say how dreadful 087X / 084X is. Why?

In fact, if you do as most 0870 users do today, run your 087X / 084X, you'll have its 037X / 034X twin. You got this as a migration number as part of the work done by Ofcom. Thus you'll offer an 03XX number diverted to you mobile, and not scam people calling your 07XXX.

Compared to the hypocrisy shown in this site, there is not much wrong with 087X / 084X. It grants 037X / 034X  which - compared to 07XXX users - is very good.

The ideal is this acheived, where, and I corrupt CJT-80's quote, it did read:

"No landline number business or residential should cost more to call."

With 0870, CJT-80's quote now reads...

"No business or residential, mobile or land should cost more to call."

We meet this, why not you? You don't need to be a business to offer this courtesy to those that call you. You can arrange this via 037X / 034X, this via 0870.

Ban 0870, why? Compared to 07XXX, users of 0870 are set for canonisation. If at Saynoto0870 we all mean what we say, we'll stop with the false virtue, and let money  follow mouth...

Now.

Get your 037XX and meet the requirement set out in:

"No business or residential mobile or land should cost more to call."

Until PSTN (POTS) does it for you anyway, if you truly mean what you say, your hand will go in your pocket and you'll make sure, wherever you receive calls, it's FREE, or it's 03XX call-rates your callers pay.

Because that is right and proper.

And... stop with the  'Don't do as I do, do as I say'. it's false virtue and it doesn't suit you.

Title: Re: When will 084x and 087x be abolished?
Post by CJT-80 on Mar 31st, 2023 at 5:34pm
Hi 03700000000,

What hypocrisy are you referring to exactly? Using a mobile number? Last I checked most if not ALL mobile networks include calls to mobiles in their calling plans, and some landline networks do as well... but do they provide calls to 0843/0844/0870/0871/0872 numbers.. NO they don't so that's why we continue to sit here and campaign for everyone to stop using those numbers.

I can see from your historical posts about 07 personal numbers (those which look like mobile numbers, but are charged at a premium rate).  I would happily seem them consigned to history as well.

Whilst were on the subject of 08 numbers, did you not post on here a few years ago about the issues you had moving to an 0370 number (the one your username is based on?) and the issues you had doing it?

Or maybe I am mistaken.

I think we need to all calm down and remember we are all human and even if you don't like our views we are (as are you) entitled to them, but lets not get personal.

Title: Re: When will 084x and 087x be abolished?
Post by 03700000000 on Apr 1st, 2023 at 12:26pm
It’s my understanding via www.whois.com, the domain www.saynoto0870.com was registered in 2004. This site was at inception, sometime around then?

=============
What hypocrisy are you referring to exactly? Using a mobile number?
=============

Er, yes. A mobile was a premium number. In 2004, it cost more to dial than 0870.

In the context of 2004, bleating about the cost of calling 0870 numbers comes a bit rich when millions of us operated our own premium numbers. Numbers which for nearer a decade had call-rates considerably pricier to dial than any 0870.

And to this day, without the right call-plan, any 07XX is still a premium number. Only less than it was.

The mobile revolution has brought call-rates to ever lower levels. Which kinda saves this site’s bacon. Thus this site is able to mitigate  and clean its act a little, yet it's hardly clean is it? The hypocrisy is still here, it’s just lessened.

ie: when the domain www.saynoto0870.com was registered, most of us were wholesale buying our own premium numbers. This site’s, ’Don’t do as I do, do as I say’ was at peak.

As for evasion of the central-point; migration from 0870 to 0370; 070; call-plan inclusive rates etc etc, I say “Oh good.” Always a sign someone is hitting home. A tacit 'guilty-plea' right there.

The correct reply would not divert the point, it would read something like:

“OK, you got me, if I’m going to call for the ban on other premium numbers, unless I admit to this double-standard… I’ve got to call for the ban of my own”.

No no, thank me later.

Title: Re: When will 084x and 087x be abolished?
Post by CJT-80 on Apr 4th, 2023 at 5:14pm

03700000000 wrote on Apr 1st, 2023 at 12:26pm:
It’s my understanding via www.whois.com, the domain www.saynoto0870.com was registered in 2004. This site was at inception, sometime around then?


I have no idea the site is NOT registered to me. I am a moderator who is probably one of the few remaining people who still frequent this website


03700000000 wrote on Apr 1st, 2023 at 12:26pm:
=============
What hypocrisy are you referring to exactly? Using a mobile number?
=============

Er, yes. A mobile was a premium number. In 2004, it cost more to dial than 0870.

In the context of 2004, bleating about the cost of calling 0870 numbers comes a bit rich when millions of us operated our own premium numbers. Numbers which for nearer a decade had call-rates considerably pricier to dial than any 0870.

And to this day, without the right call-plan, any 07XX is still a premium number. Only less than it was.

The mobile revolution has brought call-rates to ever lower levels. Which kinda saves this site’s bacon. Thus this site is able to mitigate  and clean its act a little, yet it's hardly clean is it? The hypocrisy is still here, it’s just lessened.

ie: when the domain www.saynoto0870.com was registered, most of us were wholesale buying our own premium numbers. This site’s, ’Don’t do as I do, do as I say’ was at peak.

As for evasion of the central-point; migration from 0870 to 0370; 070; call-plan inclusive rates etc etc, I say “Oh good.” Always a sign someone is hitting home. A tacit 'guilty-plea' right there.

The correct reply would not divert the point, it would read something like:

“OK, you got me, if I’m going to call for the ban on other premium numbers, unless I admit to this double-standard… I’ve got to call for the ban of my own”.

No no, thank me later.


I honestly have no idea what, as this point, you are saying.  Perhaps the modus operandi for this website has evolved over the years, but as predominantly business continue to use expensively priced numbers, and as the general public remain confused by the numbering system is still has it's use.

Oh and I have no intention of thanking you!  ;D

Title: Re: When will 084x and 087x be abolished?
Post by G7MZH on Jul 22nd, 2023 at 10:07am
Not forgetting that with some phone providers, some mobile numbers are charged more than others.

Aparrently this is because of the different ways resellers operate, but it is pretty much unpublicised. Another case for Ofcom?

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