SAYNOTO0870.COM - Advertising 0870 numbers as 'National Rate'

Heinz

Ex Member

Advertising 0870 numbers as 'National Rate'
Jul 29^th, 2004 at 10:46pm

Now that BT have reduced their charges to '01' and '02' numbers to 3p/minute during the day and charge a flat rate of 5½p for up to an hour in the evenings and at weekends (both of which, AFAIAA, are beaten by all other CPS and indirect suppliers), how can firms get away with blatantly false claims such as "Calls charged at National Rate" after their 0870 numbers on their advertising?

As we all know (you wouldn't be reading this if you didn't), 0870 charges are at least 7p/minute (depending on your telco) so can be described as 'nearly premium rate' (it's at least FOURTEEN TIMES more than I pay per minute for a call to any UK geographical number).

Shouldn't the Advertising Standards Authority and Ofcom be investigating?

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« Last Edit: Jul 29^th, 2004 at 11:02pm by Heinz »

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015

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scabbard

Guest

Re: Advertising 0870 numbers as 'National Rate'
Reply #1 - Jul 31^st, 2004 at 6:25am

Yes they should!
I have written to Edward Leigh MP, Chair of Public Accounts Committee at Westminster on this very matter, as well as to OFCOM earlier in May.
The reply involved the statement " The Committee is encouraged by Ofcom's response in June 2004 that it agrees that clarity of charges helps consumers make informed choices" !!!
Translated, this probably means they will be doing nothing!! ??? ???
Maybe a test case under Trade Description Act might be a way forward?

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Heinz

Ex Member

Re: Advertising 0870 numbers as 'National Rate'
Reply #2 - Aug 9^th, 2004 at 5:23pm

Although the following is not, strictly speaking, 'advertising', it gets worse when firms give out 0870 numbers and say they are 'Local Rate' - see the Cahoot example below:
Quote:

9 Aug 2004
type: system message
URGENT ***Reminder about internet security***

Following media reports, we want to remind cahoot customers that we don't send any emails to you requesting your security details or any other confidential information. Please don't reply to any such emails or follow any links within them to websites claiming to be cahoot. If in doubt log in by going direct to www.cahoot.com. If you have any concerns about security, or think you may have disclosed information you shouldn't have, please go to 'contact us' above or call us on 0870 6000 655 (local rate) 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week.

I'm pleased to be able to report that http://www.saynoto0870.com/ lists an alternative geographical number (0247 662 7190) in that case.

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« Last Edit: Aug 9^th, 2004 at 5:31pm by Heinz »

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015

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wndr3 Guest	Re: Advertising 0870 numbers as 'National Rate' Reply #3 - Aug 10^th, 2004 at 8:03pm Until Ofcom actually 'cleans up' the whole naming process then the public will continue to be mislead. Local and National calls can mean different things now, it seems.
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Heinz

Ex Member

Re: Advertising 0870 numbers as 'National Rate'
Reply #4 - Aug 12^th, 2004 at 6:11pm

For the sake of completeness, the below is the e-mail response I got from Ofcom (typical quango 'non-reply' IMHO).

Quote:

11 Aug 2004

Dear Mr Heinz

Thank you for your email to Ofcom. In this you complained about the misleading use of the term “National” rate for calls to non-geographic 0870 numbers, now that BT has reduced the cost of calls to national geographic numbers following its BT Together price changes.

By way of background, I should explain that 0845/0870 numbers are known as Number Translation Services (NTS) ie the non-geographic number sits on top of a geographic number. The NTS regime was created to encourage the provision of innovative value added services by terminating operators and service providers.

Ofcom is aware of consumer concerns that they might be misled on the promotion and marketing of both 0845 and 0870 numbers and we also share concern about their proliferation. On 29 April 2004, Ofcom issued a statement and announced a further consultation on 0845/0870 retail pricing. Following this we are now actively working with advertising regulators and consumer bodies to agree how the prices for these calls should be advertised. We are also re-examining the way in which the entire NTS regime operates and will be consulting widely on our proposals in the early autumn. One of the possible options could be to require originating providers to provide price warnings of the prices of NTS calls before connecting the call but we have not finalised any views yet.

If you wanted to see a copy of the Ofcom statement and further consultation it can be found at http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations/past/0845/?a=87101 which is also where any further consultations will be published.

Yours sincerely

Steven Parker
Ofcom Contact Centre

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« Last Edit: Aug 12^th, 2004 at 6:12pm by Heinz »

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015

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John JP Newbie Offline Posts: 7 Nottinghamshire	Re: Advertising 0870 numbers as 'National Rate' Reply #5 - Aug 15^th, 2004 at 8:32am I got onto BBC Watchdog about this some time ago complaining about their own "National Rate" number staing that I had a free geographic numbers account. A complaint to Watchdog about Watchdog? - obviously no reply recieved but they bave revised their wording.
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Len

Guest

Re: Advertising 0870 numbers as 'National Rate'
Reply #6 - Aug 15^th, 2004 at 11:21am

Now BT has followed the other firms into having one rate for all geographical numbers, with everyone on a version of BT Together, then the titles for 0845 and 0870 numbers are no longer correct, as there is no such thing as local or distance calls.

For this reason those codes should be retitled, and my suggestions are.

0870 - Mini Premium Rate
0845 - Micro Premium Rate

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bgezine

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Posts: 28
Gender: female

Re: Advertising 0870 numbers as 'National Rate'
Reply #7 - Sep 23^rd, 2004 at 2:15pm

You are worrying about 08 rates.

BT always used to show them as lo-call and national rate on the phone bill, listing them separately from the local and national calls - why should this suddenly be confusing just becasue BT has had to bring its pricing bands into line with so many other telecom providers?

What about the 09 rates. The cheapest is 5p, all the way up to £1.50 - and some telecoms charge their own rates for them.

Now, that is what I call confusing.

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Use a mobile? Then you need&&http://morecall.2u.co.uk&&http://www.80550.co.uk

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omy

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I came - I saw - I went
home.

Posts: 129

Re: Advertising 0870 numbers as 'National Rate'
Reply #8 - Sep 23^rd, 2004 at 2:59pm

But, as I understand it (and no doubt I will be corrected if wrong!), the 09 numbers are classified as 'Premium' and are regulated differently, for example no 'queueing' allowed, and charges must be shown?
The thing about 0870 is that they can mislead callers into thinking the rates are 'normal' (calling them local, national, lo-call....), whereas because they are not included in most packages they are much more expensive and devious.

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Heinz

Ex Member

Re: Advertising 0870 numbers as 'National Rate'
Reply #9 - Sep 23^rd, 2004 at 4:07pm

Quote:

You are worrying about 08 rates.

BT always used to show them as lo-call and national rate on the phone bill, listing them separately from the local and national calls - why should this suddenly be confusing just becasue BT has had to bring its pricing bands into line with so many other telecom providers?

What about the 09 rates. The cheapest is 5p, all the way up to £1.50 - and some telecoms charge their own rates for them.

Now, that is what I call confusing.

I find that saving a couple of URLs has helped reduce that confusion.

The first is BT's list of charges for calls to non-geographical numbers:

The second is OneTel's list of charges for calls to non-geographical numbers for 'subscribers' to their (free) StandardlUKTalk package:

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« Last Edit: Oct 6^th, 2004 at 3:40pm by Heinz »

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015

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