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FOI - Bath&NESomerset Council (Read 12,757 times)
mc661
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FOI - Bath&NESomerset Council
Aug 9th, 2005 at 3:40am
 
Now this is interesting, instead of denying the use of NGN numbers they just turn round and say they dont understand the question. Plus they use the age old excuse that local and national rate is different and 'customers' wont pay any more blah blah.

2. Why do you use 0845 numbers?
0845 numbers are charged to the customer as if they were dialling a local number. Therefore, it doesn’t cost the customer any more than if they lived locally and dialled any of the standard, local council numbers. In addition, if customers call from outside the local area, they will still be charged as if it was a local call.

2.1. And if so, what are the equivalent geographical numbers?
Apologies, we do not understand this question. Unfortunately the information you provided does not identify clearly enough the type of information you require. Please contact us again to discuss this matter further.

2.2. What revenue do you receive per minute and in total from the use of 0845 numbers?
Rather than create revenue (these are not National rate or Premium rate numbers which do create an income by charging callers above the standard local rate), normally there would be a charge from the service provider for
allowing callers to call from anywhere but only be charged at a local call rate. However, as the company we use have very high call volumes, they are able to negotiate a deal whereby we can pay a nominal annual fee to the service
provider and pass on the benefit of being able to provide a local charge service to customers with no call costs to us.

2.3. Are you aware of the revenue collected by your telecom provider, from your callers?
Please refer to our response to 2.2.

2.4. Have you considered the revised COI1 guidelines?
Please refer to our response to 2.1.

2.4.1. If so, what conclusions did you come to?
See above.

2.5. Do you realise that all calls (local/national) cost the same?
If the question relates to the fact that callers from anywhere in the country are charged at local rate only, then this is a correct statement and provides a nocost benefit to the council and a possible cost saving to the customers if they call from outside the local area. However, if the question relates to the difference between ‘Local’ calls and ‘National Rate’ calls, then it is incorrect.
Local calls mean that the callers pay the same as if they made a local call to a local telephone number. National Rate calls charge the customer more than a local call and can create an income for the service provider / client. These numbers are used by organisations that may receive enquiries from all over the country and wish to provide a fixed cost per minute to the caller rather than penalise some callers for having to call longer distance and, therefore, pay more for the call.

2.6. Do you realise that 0845 numbers now offer no cost advantage to callers, irrespective of their location, only disadvantages?
Given the above facts regarding local call telephone numbers, we do not understand what this question means or what disadvantages are referred to? Please contact us again if you would like to discuss this matter further.

2.7. Are you aware of the cost implications to your callers, when using 0845numbers?
We believe the above provides the information for you to reply in the affirmative.

3. Who provides the council with its telephone systems?
Networks provided by Telewest and BT. Our exchange is Exchange Switches (Mitel SX2000 and IP3300).
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« Last Edit: Aug 19th, 2005 at 11:05am by mc661 »  
 
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Tanllan
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Re: FOI - Bath&NESomerset Council (no idea res
Reply #1 - Aug 9th, 2005 at 8:25am
 
Thank heavens that I am not a Bath and NES Council Tax payer, or I should be concerned (concerned? more Angry ) that my money was being wasted on and by ill-trained and possibly incompetent staff. It would appear that they have introduced a service, at a cost, without understanding it.
Either that or they are lying.
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Dave
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Re: FOI - Bath&NESomerset Council (no idea res
Reply #2 - Aug 9th, 2005 at 8:18pm
 
Quote:
2.2. What revenue do you receive per minute and in total from the use of 0845 numbers?
Rather than create revenue (these are not National rate...

So they are aware that 'national rate' 0870 numbers generate revenue. So how do they think that pay as you go internet service providers make their money if they don't through 0845?

Quote:
2.5. Do you realise that all calls (local/national) cost the same?

I think that this question needs clarifying.

They have interpretted it as "Do you realise that a call to a number classed as local from the caller's location costs the same regardless of the location of the caller?" Similarly, the same question with 'national' substituted for 'local'.

I suggest something like "Do you realise that a call to local number costs the same as a call to a national number when made from the same location for the majority of telephone subscribers?"


I hope you are going to reply to this and educate these people.
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Freddie
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Re: FOI - Bath&NESomerset Council
Reply #3 - Sep 1st, 2005 at 8:47pm
 
I wonder if the hoteliers and guest houses of Bath realise that their tourist office cannot be contacted from abroad. 

The fowl up by the council over the Spa project is said to have cost millions in foreign tourism revenue. Maybe it's their phone number that caused the reduction in tourists!
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mc661
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Re: FOI - Bath&NESomerset Council
Reply #4 - Sep 6th, 2005 at 11:50am
 
Audit and Risk Management
Guildhall, High St, Bath BA1 5AW
Main switchboard ph: 01225 477000
Direct line: 01225 396872
Fax: n/a
Minicom: n/a
Email: foi@bathnes.gov.uk


Date: 6/9/2005

Dear

Thank you for your recent request for information dated 19/8/2005, reproduced for your reference below.

1.      Why do you use 0870 telephone numbers?
1.1.  And if so, what are the equivalent geographical numbers?
1.2.  What revenue do you receive per minute and in total from the use of 0870 numbers?
1.3.  Are you aware of the revenue collected by your telecom provider, from your callers?
1.4.  Have you considered the revised COI1 guidelines?
1.4.1.      If so, what conclusions did you come to?
1.5.  Do you realise that all calls (local/national) cost the same regardless if calling from Penzance or Bath??
1.6.  Are you aware of the cost implications to your callers, when using 0870 numbers, including calls from mobile phones?
1.7.  Are you also aware that callers cannot connect to 0870 numbers from overseas?
1.7.1.      Why does it state on your tourist information website that “overseas callers” should dial a 0870 number? 2
1.8.  How much does it cost to call an 0870 number:
1.8.1.      In the Daytime.
1.8.2.      In the Evening.
1.8.3.      At Weekends.

As indicated to you in our response of 8/8/2005, the Council does not use any 0870 numbers, and we hold no information in relation to these questions.

To clarify, the 0870 number listed on the Council’s website is managed by Bath Tourism Plus (BTP), which is a private company that manages tourism promotion in Bath and North East Somerset. The 0870 number used by BTP was originally set up by the Council in 2002 before tourism activities were transferred over to BTP. Members of both Bath & North East Somerset Council's Economic Development Service (then Economic Development, Sustainability and Tourism) and Bath Tourism Plus were involved in the tendering process for the line, however the Council no longer holds records of the tenders that were received.

Any further questions regarding the use of this number should be directed to Bath Tourism Plus. Please find their contact details below. We should also point out that BTP is a private company, and as such is not subject to the requirements of the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

Bath Tourism Plus
Robin Bischert (Chief Executive)
Ph: 01225 477708

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mc661
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Re: FOI - Bath&NESomerset Council
Reply #5 - Sep 6th, 2005 at 11:50am
 
2.      Why do you use 0845 numbers?
2.1.  And if so, what are the equivalent geographical numbers?
2.2.  What revenue do you receive per minute and in total from the use of 0845 numbers?
2.3.  Are you aware of the revenue collected by your telecom provider, from your callers?
2.4.  Have you considered the revised COI1 guidelines?
2.4.1.      If so, what conclusions did you come to?
2.5.  Do you realise that a call to local number costs the same as a call to a national number when made from the same location for the majority of telephone subscribers?
2.6.  Do you realise that 0845 numbers now offer no cost advantage to callers, irrespective of their location, only disadvantages?
2.7.  Are you aware of the cost implications to your callers, when using 0845 numbers, including calls from mobile phones?
2.8.  How much does it cost to call an 0845 number:
2.8.1.      In the Daytime.
2.8.2.      In the Evening.
2.8.3.      At Weekends.

We have already supplied responses to parts of this question (please refer to our letter of 8/8/2005). Those parts of your question I have highlighted in bold have either been rephrased in your most recent request, or you have added more information to those parts we indicated we did not understand. I can now further respond as follows:

2.1 The geographic number allocated to the service is an Ascot (01344) number at Inform Communication plc’s premises in Berkshire.

2.4 and 2.4.1. We hold no recorded information on this subject.

2.5 If the question relates to the fact that callers from anywhere in the country are charged at local rate only, then this is a correct statement and provides a no-cost benefit to the council and a possible cost saving to the customers if they call from outside the local area. However, if the question relates to the difference between ‘Local’ calls and ‘National Rate’ calls, then it is incorrect. Local calls mean that the callers pay the same as if they made a local call to a local telephone number. National Rate calls charge the customer more than a local call and can create an income for the service provider / client. These numbers are used by organisations that may receive enquiries from all over the country and wish to provide a fixed cost per minute to the caller rather than penalise some callers for having to call longer distance and, therefore, pay more for the call.

2.8 The following are BT’s latest prices for 0845 numbers:

For calls made between Monday to Friday 8am to 6pm the cost to the caller is 3.36 pence per minute (on a per second used basis) plus VAT subject to a minimum connection charge equal to 22 seconds.

For calls made outside the above hours, the cost to the caller is 0.85 pence per minute.

3.      Why do you use a premium rate 0906 number for Tourist Information?
3.1.  And if so, what is the equivalent geographical number?
3.2.  Have you considered the fact that this number cannot be dialled from outside the UK, and cannot be dialled on some mobile phone operators?
3.3.  What revenue do you receive per minute and in total from the use of this premium rate number?
3.4.  Are you aware of the revenue collected by your telecom provider, from your callers?
3.5.  Have you considered the revised COI1 guidelines?
3.5.1. If so, what conclusions did you come to?
3.6.  Was “best value” considered in the use of this number?
3.7.  Who was involved when you “went to tender” on the 0906 number.

The 0906 number, although originally set up by the Council in 2002, is now used by Bath Tourism Plus. Points 3 - 3.5.1 are operational matters which Bath & North East Somerset couldn't answer on behalf of Bath Tourism Plus. If you require further information please contact BTP, as above.

In relation to point 3.6, value for money was considered in terms of improving the number of 'calls answered'. At the time less than 60% of incoming calls to the Tourist Information Centre were being answered, against a long term decline in income in all operational areas. Therefore as a solution the premium rate line was introduced and the income generated was re-invested in staffing levels in the Tourist Information Centre. After the line was set up another member of staff was recruited and call answering was increased to 90%.

In relation to point 3.7 members of both Bath & North East Somerset Council's Economic Development Service (then Economic Development, Sustainability and Tourism) and Bath Tourism Plus were involved in the tendering process for the line; however the Council no longer holds records of the tenders that were received.
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mc661
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Re: FOI - Bath&NESomerset Council
Reply #6 - Sep 6th, 2005 at 11:50am
 
4.      What companies operate your:

4.1.Premium rate telephone numbers.

We hold no information in relation to this question, please refer to our response to Q3 above.

4.2.0845 telephone numbers.

Inform Communications plc, Ascot Berkshire

4.3.0870 telephone numbers.

We hold no information in relation to this question, please refer to our response to Q1 above.

4.4.Telephone switch equipment

The Council owns, manages and operates its MITEL digital telephone system and network. Maintenance is contracted with Mitel Telecommunications on a 24 x 7 arrangement.

5.I would also like all the internal documents, memos and any information relating to the tender of the 0870, 0845 and 0906 numbers.

The Council no longer holds any information on the tenders received for these numbers.

If you are unhappy with the way the Council has handled your request, you may ask for an internal review. Please contact the Council’s Chief Internal Auditor, Mr Jeff Wring at: The Guildhall, High St, Bath BA1 5AW mailto:jeff_wring@bathnes.gov.uk.

If you are not content with the outcome of the internal review, you have the right to appeal directly to the Information Commissioner for a decision. The Information Commissioner can be contacted at: Information Commissioner’s Office, Wycliffe House, Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire, SK9 5AF www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk.

Yours sincerely,

Amanda Osborne
Information Compliance Manager
Audit and Risk Management
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