Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
SAYNOTO0870.COM

<---- Back to main website

 
Home Help Search Login Register

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 7
Send Topic Print
BBC Watchdog now using 020 number (Read 101,997 times)
Dave
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male
Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #30 - Sep 29th, 2005 at 7:35pm
 
Quote:
What price per minute did or didn't they quote for calling?

I didn't notice.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
bbb_uk
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 2,041
Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #31 - Oct 1st, 2005 at 12:50pm
 
Quote:
The BBC TV news programme Saturday morning (BBC2 I think) had what looked like a weekly slot for viewers to question the BBC. At the end of the session contact details were put on the screen. The full screen was used giving an 0870 number.

But here is the surprise a very bold message giving the cost of the calls as between 3p and 8p per minutes was given.
I saw one of BBC's own adverts on BBC the other day (can't remember what they were advertising) but noted the number was an 0870 and below it stated "standard calls rates apply".

I complained to the ASA about this and got a reply back telling me that BBC's own adverts are outside their remit and to take this matter further contact the BBC themselves.

That to me seems to indicate that BBC regulate themselves with regards to their adverts.

I'm so glad I can complain about BBC adverts to an independant company/organisation!?   Angry
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
NonGeographicalMan
Ex Member


Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #32 - Oct 1st, 2005 at 1:36pm
 
See my emails of yesterday to Martha Kearney of Womans Hour and the editor of the Today program regarding their continued misleading statements that 0870 is National Rate.  On Womans Hour they made such a statment on only yesterday morning's program:-

And yes it does appear the BBC are allowed to regulate themselves but amongst their mangement I have copied in Stephen Whittle, their Director of Editorial Policy as well as the controller of Radio 4 (Mark Damazer) and the head of BBC Radio, Jenny Abramsky.

The fact that other BBC programs are complying with the new ASA guidlines makes it relatively easy to force these renegade programs to comply.

Programs like Womans Hour and Today seem to think they can get away with continuing the National Rate scam just because they have always done it.

In my opinion the BBC should also comply with COI guidance on the matter so at the very least should change from 0870 to 0845

-----Original Message-----
Sent: 30 September 2005 11:48
To: martha.kearney@bbc.co.uk
Cc: colin.dallibar@bbc.co.uk; jenni.murray@bbc.co.uk; sheila.mcclennon@bbc.co.uk; mark.damazer@bbc.co.uk; jenny.abramsky@bbc.co.uk; bruce.vander@bbc.co.uk; tim.davie@bbc.co.uk; mike.southgate@bbc.co.uk; stephen.whittle@bbc.co.uk; john.smith@bbc.co.uk
Subject: Why Women's Hour Cannot Continue to Claim Its 0870 Number is "National Rate"

Dear Martha,

I felt I must email you to say how shocked and appalled I was that as the Woman's Hour presenter who is most involved in current affairs and political issues with the BBC you could still state on today's program that one of your 0870 numbers was a "National Rate" call.

Surely as someone also involved on programs like Newsnight you cannot be unaware of the continued public controversy over this issue and Ofcom's press release on this matter only yesterday.

You and your Women's Hour Producers just cannot go on claiming that this 0870 number is a National Rate number in view of the following:-

Most important is the recent ASA guidance on the description of calling costs given for 0870 numbers which I have heard several other recent BBC broadcasts in recent days complying with and the recent BBC2 series Coast complying with:-

www.asa.org.uk/cap/news_events/news/2005/Stop+the+call+confusion.htm

This says you:-
must not describe calls to those numbers as being charged at ‘local’ or ‘national’ rate.
must state the maximum cost of calls to BT customers and indicate that call costs using non-BT phone lines may vary.  (This would amount to saying calls can cost between 3 and 8p per minute for BBC customers using BT depending on the time of day at which they call).
Also as a BBC political commentator on Newsnight are you not aware of the recent parliamentary early day motion on this matter where over 20 MPs signed a motion deploring the use of 0870 numbers by government contact centres?

http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=28872%09%09%09%09%09%09%09&...

Paragraph 1.3 of The below submission by Leicestershire Trading Standards to Ofcom also made it clear that anyone stating that 0870 calls are "National Rate" may be committing an offence under Part III of the Consumer Protection Act 1987:-

www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/oftel_0845/responses/leicester_cc.pdf

I must therefore ask you to stop going on stating that 0870 numbers are National Rate when new guidelines from the ASA make it perfectly clear that the BBC just cannot continue to get away with this particular part of its 0870 scam.  Of course for the time being we can't actually stop the BBC using these 0870 numbers but we can force it to state the correct call price for them when it does so.

Regards,
Back to top
« Last Edit: Oct 1st, 2005 at 1:38pm by N/A »  
 
IP Logged
 
NonGeographicalMan
Ex Member


Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #33 - Oct 1st, 2005 at 1:37pm
 
Here is my message to the editor of the Today program on BBC Radio 4

-----Original Message-----
Sent: 30 September 2005 12:04
To: kevin.marsh@bbc.co.uk
Cc: john.humphrys@bbc.co.uk; sarah.montague@bbc.co.uk; james.naughtie@bbc.co.uk; caroline.quinn@bbc.co.uk; edward.stourton@bbc.co.uk; mark.damazer@bbc.co.uk; jenny.abramsky@bbc.co.uk; bruce.vander@bbc.co.uk; tim.davie@bbc.co.uk; mike.southgate@bbc.co.uk; stephen.whittle@bbc.co.uk
Subject: Why Today Program Cannot Continue to Misleadingly Claim Its 0870 Number is "National Rate"

Dear Mr Marsh,

I forward below a copy of an email to Martha Kearney sent today which should be self explanatory.

Although I do not listen to your Today program that often for various reasons, and so cannot cite a recent example, I know that you are another offender on persistently misleading the public on the cost of your 0870 calls as being "National Rate".

Can you please desist from this deplorable practice and begin complying with new ASA regulations before I am forced to lodge it as a formal complaint with the BBC's Editorial Board.

Regards,
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Tanllan
Supreme Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 797
Gender: male
Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #34 - Oct 1st, 2005 at 1:37pm
 
Quote:
I'm so glad I can complain about BBC adverts to an independant company/organisation!?   Angry

I hesitate to say (OK, write) this, but doesn't ofcom regulate broadcasters as well?
Back to top
« Last Edit: Oct 1st, 2005 at 1:38pm by Tanllan »  
 
IP Logged
 
NonGeographicalMan
Ex Member


Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #35 - Oct 1st, 2005 at 1:39pm
 
Quote:
I hesitate to say (OK, write) this, but doesn't ofcom regulate broadcasters as well?


The BBC have all sorts of exemption so only the Board of Governors and Parliament in fact control their output.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
bbb_uk
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 2,041
Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #36 - Oct 1st, 2005 at 2:24pm
 
NGM, let us know how you on with those replies from the BBC.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
NonGeographicalMan
Ex Member


Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #37 - Oct 2nd, 2005 at 12:40am
 
Quote:
NGM, let us know how you on with those replies from the BBC.


You assume they will reply which they very often don't but at least it made me feel better - I also have an email read receipt to show that Martha Kearney did at least have to read my views.

Unfortunately the BBC would much prefer one to speak via 0870 to BBC Information in Belfast where their outsourced contract Capita seem to train their staff on the same model of bored and disinterested staff who hate their customers as is used by the Ofcom Contact Centre.

I may perhaps get a reply from BBCR4 Controller Mark Damazer (who seems to be quite keen and has replied to one of my emails before) or from Mr Stephen Whittle since BBC editorial policy on describing 0870 as National Rate must surely be his bag.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2005 at 12:41am by N/A »  
 
IP Logged
 
NonGeographicalMan
Ex Member


Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #38 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 2:34pm
 

Here is the reply I have received from the Deputy Editor of Womans Hour which is about a thousand times more helpful and useful than the one I would have received if I had telephone BBC Information on their outsourced 0870 number run by Capita staff in Belfast.  In fact had I telephoned that number I would almost certainly not have received any further response.

So slowly slowly we win the war (in this case not to stop the use of 0870 but merely to stop the blatant bare faced lie that they are National Rate calls) but why should we have to waste all this time and effort when a tough and competent Ofcom (perhaps with a new Policy Director called Mr Ever Alert and Constantly Pushy) could have stopped the whole scam at least two years ago.

-----Original Message-----
From: Maria Williams [mailto:maria.williams.01@bbc.co.uk]
Sent: 03 October 2005 17:02
Subject: FW: Why Women's Hour Cannot Continue to Claim Its 0870 Number is "National Rate"

Thank you very much for contacting Martha about Woman's Hour's use of the phrase "national rate" to describe an 0870 number.  I have checked and you are quite right - the BBC' s policy is to say nothing when referring to the 0870 number .  We will not refer to it as "national rate" in the future.  However I have also been advised that we cannot give the price, as prices depend on the caller's network provider.
Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention and please accept my apologies for our error.
Best wishes
Maria

Maria Williams
Deputy Editor
Woman's Hour
BBC Radio 4
Tel:  020 7765 4549
Mob: 07841 004 124
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Smasher
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 346
UK
Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #39 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 3:19pm
 
What's the good in that?  They aren't going to give the price so can we assume they'll continue to adhere to BBC's policy of staying silent? ??? Roll Eyes
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
NoNumberTrans
Newbie
*
Offline



Posts: 14
Stockport
Gender: male
Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #40 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 3:30pm
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Kerr Kate [mailto:Kate.Kerr@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk]
Sent: 22 September 2005 18:30
Subject: Home Office Public Enquiry Number


...I can confirm that the Permanent Secretary agreed that the Home Office should adopt a geographic number for its central public enquiry number.  The number is 020 7035 4848 and is now operational.  

The contact page on the website has been changed to reflect the new number...

Katie Kerr
Direct Communications Unit, Home Office
7th Fl. Horseferry House, Dean Ryle Street, London SW1P 2AW
020 7035 4725
[/quote]

As of 1530 today, the Home Office website is still showing the 0870 number. So that's not changed at all then.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
NonGeographicalMan
Ex Member


Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #41 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 3:38pm
 
Quote:
020 7035 4725As of 1530 today, the Home Office website is still showing the 0870 number. So that's not changed at all then.


Why not email Katie Kerr to complain then with CC to John Gieve (Permanent Secretary) and Charles Clarke.

Or are you relying on me to do that for you?
Back to top
« Last Edit: Oct 4th, 2005 at 3:38pm by N/A »  
 
IP Logged
 
NonGeographicalMan
Ex Member


Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #42 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 3:42pm
 
Quote:
What's the good in that?  They aren't going to give the price so can we assume they'll continue to adhere to BBC's policy of staying silent? ??? Roll Eyes


The good is that they will no longer mislead the public into believing that 0870 is charged at the BT National Rate which is where the whole scam starts.

If people started thinking 0870, "oh, oh danger don't call" then these scamsters would have to change their way.

They should quote the pence per minute rate min/max as well as stopping saying "National Rate" but no doubt I would have to chase Ofcom, the ASA and Stephen Whittle, Mark Thompson and Michael Grade at the BBC to stand any hope of getting this enforced.

If everyone who hears 0870 called National Rate tells these people why they can't do this anymore they will have to stop.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
NoNumberTrans
Newbie
*
Offline



Posts: 14
Stockport
Gender: male
Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #43 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 3:49pm
 

Quote:
Why not email Katie Kerr to complain then with CC to John Gieve (Permanent Secretary) and Charles Clarke.
Or are you relying on me to do that for you?


Have just e-mailed Kate Kerr with a request she have a look as to why its not happened. Thought I'd give her a chance before copying in all and sundry.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
mikeparris
Newbie
*
Offline



Posts: 7
Gender: male
Re: Pot calling the BBC Watchdog kettle ?
Reply #44 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 5:04pm
 
NGM - I heard Michael Grade being interviewed on Radio 4 Talk Back (about 3 months ago) where he said that all profit made on phone calls from the public went to charity. I got the impression that he did not know of the existance of 0870 numbers nor the extensive use made of them by the BBC. I think he thought that the only time the BBC used premium lines was for things like children in need. Or maybe it was a massive blag that he hoped would not be picked up.

It might be worth pursuing him.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 7
Send Topic Print
(Moderators: Forum Admin, DaveM, CJT-80, Dave, bbb_uk)

Website and Content © 1999-2024 SAYNOTO0870.COM. All Rights Reserved.
Written permission is required to duplicate any of the content within this site.

WARNING: This is an open forum, posts are NOT endorsed by SAYNOTO0870.COM,
please exercise due caution when acting on any info from here.


SAYNOTO0870.COM » Powered by YaBB 2.5.2!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2024. All Rights Reserved.


Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge