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Traveline 0870 number (Read 39,192 times)
farci
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Traveline 0870 number
Jan 15th, 2006 at 7:43pm
 
I wrote to Traveline Scotland recently, pointing out the high cost associated with their 0870 service.

They replied:

Traveline Scotland works as a partnership between Transport Operators, who contribute funds to operate the service day to day, Local Authorities, who provide integrated data to populate our journey planner, and the Scottish Executive, who provide capital and development funding. We are also part of a UK-wide network of 12 Traveline services, all using the 0870 608 2 608 number. This number serves the whole of the UK. Wherever you call from you get put through to the local Traveline service. If using a mobile you choose the appropriate geographical area call centre to be put through to from a list. Traveline Scotland’s average call length is currently just over 100 seconds which means that calls cost less than 12p and the information itself is obviously provided free of charge. We also have a website at www.traveline.org.uk where the same journey planning information is available free of charge. I hope this explains the reason behind the national call rather than local tariff. We believe it represents good value for customers.


Hilary Brown
Quality Manager
Traveline Scotland Ltd
Tel 07736 088 069


It seems they take the legitimate view that the call revenue helps fund the service. But, am I not correct that they should quote the call cost in their advertising?
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mc661
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Re: Traveline 0870 number
Reply #1 - Jan 16th, 2006 at 12:08am
 
well we shall all call that mobile number for info.
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longusername
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Re: Traveline 0870 number
Reply #2 - Jan 16th, 2006 at 7:58am
 
The timetable enquiries number for the Long Island Railrod, New York, "the nations largest commuter railroad", just as a for instance, is 718-217-5477, which, if you don't know, is a geographic number. I would expect this to be standard practice in the United States. In some cases callers are provided with an 800 number. Why are Traveline calling their 0870 number a "national" rather than "premium" tariff? Why do they require to collect a charge for this service? Why must it be collected on a meter? Why do we tend to accept this practice in this country as "legitimate"? And yes, they should publish the call rate.

My point is that right now, throughout the fifty states of the union, if, as is likely, my example is representative, this same service is being provided to the public gratis as just part of what's involved in straight-up customer service. Why can't it be the same here? "US faces collapse of timetabling enquiry services due to cash crisis". Are headlines like these appearing in US papers? Is the system in danger of collapse? Why is the heart of capitalism itself able to draw back from the brink of this petty "nickling and diming to death" of the travelling public, but our supposedly more socially conscious society cannot?

My feeling is that the whole thing stinks, and I don't think it's legitimate. Angry

http://www.citidex.com/1423.htm
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farci
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Re: Traveline 0870 number
Reply #3 - Jan 16th, 2006 at 9:17am
 
longusername wrote on Jan 16th, 2006 at 7:58am:
The timetable enquiries number for the Long Island Railrod, New York, "the nations largest commuter railroad", just as a for instance, is 718-217-5477, which, if you don't know, is a geographic number. I would expect this to be standard practice in the United States. In some cases callers are provided with an 800 number. Why are Traveline calling their 0870 number a "national" rather than "premium" tariff? Why do they require to collect a charge for this service? Why must it be collected on a meter? Why do we tend to accept this practice in this country as "legitimate"? And yes, they should publish the call rate.

My point is that right now, throughout the fifty states of the union, if, as is likely, my example is representative, this same service is being provided to the public gratis as just part of what's involved in straight-up customer service. Why can't it be the same here? "US faces collapse of timetabling enquiry services due to cash crisis". Are headlines like these appearing in US papers? Is the system in danger of collapse? Why is the heart of capitalism itself able to draw back from the brink of this petty "nickling and diming to death" of the travelling public, but our supposedly more socially conscious society cannot?

My feeling is that the whole thing stinks, and I don't think it's legitimate. Angry

http://www.citidex.com/1423.htm

Thanks for this info - next time I'm in need of a train from LIR, I'll call the 718 number from UK at one-sixteenth of the price demanded by Traveline.

But this does not answer my serious enquiry - Is Traveline under any legal obligation or recommendation from eg. ASA to quote the cost per minute in their advertising?
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JohalaReewi
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Re: Traveline 0870 number
Reply #4 - Jan 16th, 2006 at 5:44pm
 
According to OFCOM,

While 0870 telephone numbers are not regulated as premium rate services, they can cost considerably more to call than geographic numbers. Guidance issued by Ofcom and by the Advertising Standards Authority makes it clear that these numbers should not be described as “national rate”.


Full blurb here...
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv/obb/prog_cb/pcb49/?a=87101

scroll down to...
The use of premium rate telecommunications services ( PRTS ) in programming

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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Traveline 0870 number
Reply #5 - Jan 16th, 2006 at 7:06pm
 
All 087 and 084 numbers are in fact Premium Rate numbers they are just not Controlled Premium Rate Numbers which fall under the jurisdiction and control of ICSTIS (that is those costing 10p per minute or more and prefixed 09).

Those in any doubt should see Paragraphs 2.1 to 2.4 and especially 2.4 of Ofcom's recently closed consultation - conditions Regulating Premium Rate Services here:- www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/prsconditions/prs.pdf

According to Para 2.4:-

PRS are defined in section 120 (7) of the Act which provides that a service is a premium rate service if:-

(a) it is a service falling within subection (8)

(b) there is charge for the provision of the service

(c) the charge is required to be paid to a person providing an electronic communications service by means of which the service in question is provided; and

(d) that charge is imposed in the form of a charge made by that person for the use of the electronic communications service

So no mention of a PRS having to charge at least 10p per minute or having to be regulated by ICSTIS.  084/7 services are premium rate as also are 070 PNS and 118 directory enquiries services.  They are just not Premium Rate Services controlled by ICSTIS.

Ofcom have been responsible for peddling a most elaborate and contrived lie with the extensive use of their deceitful terms NTS for 084/7 services and PNS for 070 services.   This has no basis in statute and NTS is in fact merely a technical term for a virtual number which redirects a call to an underlying real geographic number or series of geographic numbers or possibly to a voip destination.
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« Last Edit: Jan 16th, 2006 at 7:08pm by N/A »  
 
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farci
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Traveline - future policy on NGN's
Reply #6 - Dec 29th, 2006 at 4:02pm
 
I want to share the following exchange of e-mails  I had with Traveline Scotland and ask for any comments:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I wrote:

Your website uses an 0870 number for contact purposes.

No doubt the income you generate from this number offsets the cost of providing the service. However, let me draw your attention to a recent ruling of the Committee on Advertising Practice:

http://www.cap.org.uk/cap/advice_online/ad_alerts/Advertising+0845+and+087+numbe...
http://www.asa.org.uk/cap/news_events/news/2005/hanging+on+the+telephone+on+and+...

As you advertise on bus backs, I assume many of the calls to your number are from mobiles which are charged at a rate of up to 40p/min.

Will you now change your advertising and website to comply with CAP's advice?

They replied:

Dear Mr Farci,

I refer to your e mail above and apologise for the delay in replying. A number of changes are proposed for the use of 0870 numbers and I was waiting for clarification on the UK Traveline position before replying. However, that clarification will not be available until end January and the changes proposed by Offcom will not have effect until January 2008 so best that I comment on the situation now.

Website: Our website travelinescotland.com only gives the number and does not make reference to national rates however the Traveline UK website at Traveline.org.uk does make reference to calls being charged at national rates and I have copied this to Mr. Tony Ferguson, the Traveline Director responsible for that site so he can consider what action is needed.

Cost of 0870 numbers- It is true that a small revenue is generated from 0870 numbers although I need to point out this comes nowhere near the cost of providing the service, in Scotland the rebates from 0870 amount to roughly £40,000 per annum whilst the cost of providing the service is over £500,000 per annum. The balance is funded by Public Transport Operators.

Marketing material: Yes, we will take this advice on board. All of our marketing material was available before this advice was known and I have asked our quality manager to dispose of the small amount we hold in stock. Whatever material exists out in the public domain will be replaced during the first quarter of 2008 in line with the advice.

Bus Backs: Our contract for advertising on bus backs has long since expired and although it is unlikely, any new bus back advertising would follow the advise, meantime we will try and establish if any of the four vehicles which carried this advert still show it and ask that it be removed.

Mobiles etc: It may or may not be the case that different telecom provider charge different rates and we have no control over that, no matter which provider is used the rebate coming to us is based on the BT charge to the customer of app.8ppm peak and reducing at evenings and weekends

Finally can I say that we agree that as far as possible these costs should be transparent and any mention of national rate was made in good faith. It would hardly be sensible to cover a cost of over £500,000 per annum to provide a service for public benefit whilst at the same time not being transparent with regard to £40,000 which derives from 0870 here in Scotland.

I hope this helps clarify our position and thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.   

Kind Regards

John Elliot
Chief Executive
Traveline Scotland
john.elliot2@btopenworld.com
07771 647034

~ Edit by Dave: Links corrected
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« Last Edit: Dec 30th, 2006 at 3:20pm by Dave »  
 
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dorf
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I hate Qs on Premium NGNs

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Re: Traveline 0870 number
Reply #7 - Dec 30th, 2006 at 12:12pm
 
Hi Farci,

It seems that the link you have included is now a dead one. It may be that the page has been withdrawn?
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Ofcom are completely ineffectual
 
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Dave
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Re: Traveline 0870 number
Reply #8 - Dec 30th, 2006 at 3:21pm
 
dorf wrote on Dec 30th, 2006 at 12:12pm:
Hi Farci,

It seems that the link you have included is now a dead one. It may be that the page has been withdrawn?

I've corrected those links so they work now.
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trubster
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Traveline 0870 608 2 608
Reply #9 - Feb 16th, 2007 at 1:40am
 
Not exactly a FoI request, but I am sending a letter asking for there geo numbers, just to find out if they will give them volentatily, I will be sending email + letter on monday, can anyone who wants GN for there region post here and I will make sure it is included.

Has anyone tried with traveline before?

Cheers

Kev

Edited:
by Dave:
This thread was originally started in the Freedom of Information section of the forum. It has now been joined to the existing one in the Chat section.
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« Last Edit: Feb 19th, 2007 at 10:14am by Dave »  

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dad2711
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Re: Traveline 0870 608 2 608
Reply #10 - Feb 16th, 2007 at 7:01pm
 
canterbury kent please Smiley
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dad2711 &&I try to find numbers :--  but now im getting better at finding them
 
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LeeUK
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Re: Traveline 0870 608 2 608
Reply #11 - Feb 18th, 2007 at 12:13pm
 
North East England please.
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trubster
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Re: Traveline 0870 608 2 608
Reply #12 - Feb 18th, 2007 at 12:26pm
 
LeeUK wrote on Feb 18th, 2007 at 12:13pm:
North East England please.


Thats the one I am after, I have south yorksire, 01709 515151 but any others I am not too sure of, when I go to newcastle I have to call 0870 number...

~ Edited by Dave: Link on quote box changed due to joining threads
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« Last Edit: Feb 19th, 2007 at 10:15am by Dave »  

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trubster
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I CANT BELIEVE IT!!!
Reply #13 - Feb 19th, 2007 at 1:32am
 
WHAT A JOKE.... Can you believe this cr@p...

Quote:
0871 200 22 33 – the new number for Traveline


Friday 16 February 2007 
 
A travel information line used by 550,000 people in North East England is getting a new number.

0871 200 22 33 is the new number for Traveline, replacing the existing number which has been in use since the launch of the service in 2000.

Last year 550,662 people from the Tees Valley to the Scottish border phoned Traveline for information on public transport services.

A single national number puts callers in touch with regional operators able to provide up-to-date information on all stops for public transport, whether it be bus, Metro, train or domestic ferry services.

The new number is being introduced to provide continuing good value for callers, with an average 1min 40 sec call from a landline costing 17p.

0871 200 22 33 will run in parallel with the existing national number, 0870 608 2 608, until the latter is retired in January 2008.

Steve Noble, Chairman of North East Transport Information Service, said: “We expect a gradual transition to the new number as customers get to know it and see it on publicity material and at bus stops.

“A huge number of people use Traveline to get up-to-date information quickly and cheaply, and this new number means we can continue to grow the service we offer.”

As well as the phone number Traveline has a website, www.traveline.info, and a Traveline text service which sends bus times direct to your mobile phone. Neither of these services is changing.

The change to the telephone number was prompted by Ofcom (The Government’s Office of Communications) making changes to the way 0870 numbers are priced.



Edited:
by Dave: Source of this is Nexus website here.
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« Last Edit: Feb 19th, 2007 at 2:27pm by Dave »  

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trubster
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Re: Traveline 0870 608 2 608
Reply #14 - Feb 19th, 2007 at 1:43am
 
LeeUK wrote on Feb 18th, 2007 at 12:13pm:
North East England please.


Letter going today and will include NE as I am ashamed of them introducing 0871 and saying it is because ofcom are changing how the pricing works... thats just going to confuse people, all for a few quid?!?!

anyways, I didnt think to check at the time, but did you know that NE Traveline is already in the DB, it is  0191 2445695

Not tried it but should work

~ Edited by Dave: Link on quote box changed due to joining threads
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« Last Edit: Feb 19th, 2007 at 10:17am by Dave »  

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