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Trading standards response to 0870!!! (Read 8,692 times)
derrick
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Trading standards response to 0870!!!
Jan 28th, 2006 at 2:17pm
 
During the last few months I have contacted the various authorities (Ofcom/ASA//Trading Standards), to complain about various companies describing 0845/0870 numbers as “local/national”, Ofcom basically do not want to know, saying it is alright to describe these numbers as such and that the BT website does this and as these numbers are not regulated there is nothing they can do??

ASA seem to be alright and have contacted companies to get them to alter there wording, but when it comes to websites or correspondence addressed personally, these bodies seem unable to do anything and the duty falls to Trading Standards, my latest one is Norwich Union who have wrote to me giving an 0870 number as “charged at national rate” when contacting the company I get the usual, “ our telecom supplier says these are charged at national rate, etc” so I contacted TS, who eventually passed it to the home authority, Norfolk Trading Standards, as I am not resident in Norwich where Norwich Union head office is, however Norfolk TS will not give me any info except to say that Norwich Union have no home authority so they can do nothing, they will not converse with me and my local TS have said they have done all they can, the letter in the next post is what I received after complaining like hell to them, it implies that a company can get away with breaking criminal law (Consumer Protection Act 1987 (part III), which mentions:-

Law and penalties
Under the Consumer Protection Act 1987, it is an offence to give misleading price indications to consumers, and the maximum penalty is an unlimited fine. Liability can extend to the business which provided the number, if they gave incorrect pricing information to the advertiser.

I am going to reply to the TS letter, but was wondering if some one could give some relevant info I could put in there.

Continued……….. 




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« Last Edit: Jan 28th, 2006 at 2:18pm by derrick »  
 
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derrick
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Re: Trading standards response to 0870!!!
Reply #1 - Jan 28th, 2006 at 2:29pm
 
Managed it  in a fashion, the content is in its entirety, just the logos missing.


PRICE OF TELEPHONE CALLS
I refer to your recent complaints and the resulting correspondence with officers
of this Service.
While there may be aspects of complaint which may contravene criminal law,
any action taken by ourselves must be proportionate to the severity of any
individual case. Government guidance recommends that action by enforcement
bodies is appropriate and not a burden on business. To this end this Authority
has signed up to the Enforcement Concordat.
Your complaint has been dealt with in line with Service policy derived from the
Enforcement Concordat by referral to the Home Authority for the companies
involved Any deviation from the Concordat would leave the Authority open to
challenge as in the R v Adaway appeal case. It is not appropriate under the
Home Authority Principle for us to supply you with the referral details of the
Trading Standards Services involved or for you to contact them directly.
I am sorry you do not see a role for Ofcom in this matter. As the watchdog
service for telecoms I am sure they would value your views. (I appreciate they
may not be able to deal with individual enquiries).
I hope this letter explains our actions in relation to your complaint. Further
information is available on the Enforcement Concordat and Home Authority
Principle on our website at www.tradingstandards.qov.uk/lancashire. From the
home page please follow the link to Business Advice.
Yours faithfully
^J-,





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« Last Edit: Jan 28th, 2006 at 5:09pm by derrick »  
 
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trevord
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Re: Trading standards response to 0870!!!
Reply #2 - Jan 28th, 2006 at 3:34pm
 
derrick wrote on Jan 28th, 2006 at 2:17pm:
Norwich Union have no home authority

This would seem to imply that any large company can get away with ignoring Trading Standards with impunity!  Cry

Can't you ask them to explain this bit - and ask how one reports a company that "has no home authority"?

If NU just refer to their telco, you could point out to them that the ASA says they shouldn't describe 0870 as 'national rate' - and that even if the item in question does not strictly come under the ASA, that ASA guidance clearly indicates good/bad practice.  Smiley

I can understand that they may think that threatening criminal proceedings in relation to an 0870 mis-description is disproportionate, but that doesn't stop them writing to NU about it!  Cry
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derrick
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Re: Trading standards response to 0870!!!
Reply #3 - Jan 28th, 2006 at 3:54pm
 
trevord wrote on Jan 28th, 2006 at 3:34pm:
derrick wrote on Jan 28th, 2006 at 2:17pm:
Norwich Union have no home authority

This would seem to imply that any large company can get away with ignoring Trading Standards with impunity!  Cry

Can't you ask them to explain this bit - and ask how one reports a company that "has no home authority"?

I have already done this and keep getting the same reply, that they can't do anything!


If NU just refer to their telco, you could point out to them that the ASA says they shouldn't describe 0870 as 'national rate' - and that even if the item in question does not strictly come under the ASA, that ASA guidance clearly indicates good/bad practice.  Smiley

I have done this and sent them lots of info, ASA/CAP guidance and other relevant info, they are not interested and if Ts can't/won't do anything what more can any one do?



I can understand that they may think that threatening criminal proceedings in relation to an 0870 mis-description is disproportionate, but that doesn't stop them writing to NU about it!  Cry 


I have already done that route,no joy!
 





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derrick
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Re: Trading standards response to 0870!!!
Reply #4 - Jan 28th, 2006 at 3:57pm
 
The main problem is that I am not a Norfolk resident so they will basically not talk to me and my local TS are not forthcoming as you can see from their letter.
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kk
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Re: Trading standards response to 0870!!!
Reply #5 - Jan 28th, 2006 at 5:09pm
 
R v Adaway [2004] EWCA CRM 2831 was quoted above.  

Mr. Adaway was convicted in connection with a misdescriptions in the  building of a conservatory (vents and type of glass).  He was taken to court and fined £250 but on appeal the conviction was quashed.  Below is a quote from the Court of Appeal.  

Lord Justice Rose said:

Quote  .........

21. Indeed, when the learned Judge came to impose the fines upon the appellant, to which at the outset we referred, and to make the order in favour of the female defendant as to her costs, the learned Judge said this in a passage on which Mr Mayall places particular reliance at p 3 of the sentencing remarks:

"It is the responsibility of Wokingham District Council to ensure that they do not improperly or disproportionately use their powers of enforcement so as to cause oppression. They have, at their disposal, public funds and they should not mobilize the criminal law unless it is in the public interest to do so or when a warning or some form of caution would do as well.

In particular, the criminal law should not be mobilized to secure the settlement of private disputes which should more appropriately be determined in the county court or by arbitration or by mediation."

........

27. We add this. We have no information as to how much these proceedings have cost this local authority. We suspect that it must be many thousands of pounds. We cannot emphasize too strongly that before criminal proceedings are instituted by a local authority, acting in relation to the strict liability offences created by the Trade Descriptions Act, they must consider with care the terms of their own prosecuting policy. If they fail to do so, or if they reach a conclusion which is wholly unsupported, as the conclusion to prosecute in this case was, by material establishing the criteria for prosecution, it is unlikely that the courts will be sympathetic, in the face of the other demands upon their time at Crown Court and appellate level, to attempts to justify such prosecutions.

28. For the reasons which we have given, this appeal is allowed. The appellant's convictions are quashed.  

End quote

______________________________________________________

Unless fraud is evident, the above applies and a criminal prosecution will not take place.

If a Company makes a substantial amount of money out misrepresenting the cost of 087x/084x telephone numbers
and they have been warned before and continue the misrepresentation,
it would/may be possible, notwithstanding R v Adaway, to bring a prosecution.
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« Last Edit: Jan 28th, 2006 at 6:10pm by kk »  

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derrick
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Re: Trading standards response to 0870!!!
Reply #6 - Jan 28th, 2006 at 5:22pm
 
I have never asked for a criminal prosecution to be started, but at least a letter to inform them that they are breaking a criminal act and to desist.

I wonder if it is because Norwich Union is such a big organisation with practically unlimited funds (the policyholders) behind them,  TS never seem worried about costs when they protect the multi million pound music industry when they raid the single market stallholder to seize his illegal cd's at great cost to the council tax payers, these people (the phonographic industry,or whatever name they have)  should fund their own prosecutions then there might be some money left for the protection of the Joe Public, I do not see why council tax should be used for this type of offence when it is not used on the big boys.  Norwich Union are breaking the law and TS just let them get on with it.
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trevord
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Re: Trading standards response to 0870!!!
Reply #7 - Jan 28th, 2006 at 6:17pm
 
derrick wrote on Jan 28th, 2006 at 5:22pm:
Norwich Union ... with practically unlimited funds (the policyholders) behind them ...

The funds behind Norwich Union (strictly now "Aviva") is actually from shareholders, not policyholders.  Smiley

It ceased to be a mutual (with policyholders behind it) some years back, and subsequently got taken over by Commercial Union, who renamed the joint company 'Aviva' but kept the trading name 'Norwich Union' because they recognised that - at that time - that name had a good reputation.

In my humble opinion, their reputation plummetted when Commercial Union took them over - they kept the worst of Commercial Union instead of the best of Norwich Union!  Cry
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