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Airwave Service - 084x/087x barred for Police (Read 36,107 times)
Heinz
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Re: O2 Airwave Service - 084x/087x barred for Poli
Reply #15 - Nov 4th, 2006 at 7:55pm
 
4PetesSake wrote on Nov 4th, 2006 at 5:47pm:
These almanacs contain the 0845 or 0870 number for forces that use them and do not provide the alternative Geo no's. Therefore officers contacting other officers in other Forces are likely to use the numbers from the almanac or ones found on the Internet, unless they know about this website and search for the Geo number. There are not many who are going to do this, even if they kmow about this site, what incentive is there for them to do this, if their own Force is one of the 0845/0870 bandits.

But you overlook digit translation.  Even in the mid-1980's we were programming individual ISDXs to ensure calls were sent by the cheapest route.  I'm sure such things are part of SOP for PNN management.
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After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015
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4PetesSake
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Re: O2 Airwave Service - 084x/087x barred for Poli
Reply #16 - Nov 5th, 2006 at 12:00am
 
I am not aware of digit translation and what this does, I am guessing that it is a system that translates the 0845 No. into a geo no, that is quite clever. The Police have SOP's for almost everything else so I guess there may well be a SOP in place for this as well.
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Dave
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Re: O2 Airwave Service - 084x/087x barred for Poli
Reply #17 - Nov 5th, 2006 at 2:07pm
 
4PetesSake wrote on Nov 4th, 2006 at 5:47pm:
P.S. (Different subject) On this forum, how do you know if someone sends you a Private Message?

Under the SAYNOTO0870.COM title at the top it will say if you have any. You can click where it says how many messages you have.

Also, go to Profile -> Modify -> PM Preferences and set "Notify by email" to Yes if you want the forum to send you an email when you get a PM.
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bbb_uk
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Re: O2 Airwave Service - 084x/087x barred for Poli
Reply #18 - Nov 5th, 2006 at 6:04pm
 
Dave wrote on Nov 3rd, 2006 at 3:16pm:
NGMsGhost wrote on Nov 3rd, 2006 at 12:30pm:
Surely this is not vague at all as it clearly suggests 084/7 are classed by O2 Airwave as Premium Rate if they cannot be dialled using the phones. ...

Perhaps it is the customer, ie the police, that has stipulated that 084/087 number should be barred. Why would a telecommunications provider bar any type of number and not allow connection to them?

I presume that the emergency services are such a big customer of O2 Airwave that they will be able to get it to tailor the services to suit. If you or I request a bar on 084/087 numbers, well we don't matter because we're only a tiny tiny part of the customer base.
Maybe o2 Airwave just break even on running the system and to top up their profits they charge a lot more for calls to 084x/087x numbers knowing that it is very difficult to avoid ringing such numbers.

The police generally use shortcodes when calling other police forces so I guess these shortcodes just dial the existing geographical numbers that have been setup years ago.  For those police forces that have gone to NTS numbers, don't they still continue to use their existing underlying geographical number anyhow.  If this is the case, then one police force calling another would still do so on the existing old geographical number.

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« Last Edit: Nov 5th, 2006 at 6:04pm by bbb_uk »  

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4PetesSake
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Re: O2 Airwave Service - 084x/087x barred for Poli
Reply #19 - Nov 5th, 2006 at 10:46pm
 
Police Officers and Police Staff only use short codes for dialling other Stations within their own Force area. There are no short codes for dialling other Forces. They just use whatever they can find in the Almanac or on the Internet. The other way is for Officers and Staff to ask the Force Control Room but they just give out whatever number they find in the Almanac. BT must be laughing all the way to the bank.

My local Force has recently gone over to an 0845 number which they have spent loads of money publicising, however the old Goe one still works fine however there has been talk of it being phased out.

Dave, thanks for telling me where to look to see if I have any PM's - So obvious, I don't know how I missed it.
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Dave
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Re: O2 Airwave Service - 084x/087x barred for Poli
Reply #20 - Nov 6th, 2006 at 8:26am
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Nov 3rd, 2006 at 12:24pm:
I thought the point of the O2 Airwave network was (a) so that the emergency services have access to a network that will not become clogged with calls from the public in the event of a local riot, pop concert or sporting event or nationally due to nuclear war, poisoning of the water supply by Al Quaeda etc and (b) so that the base stations all have better backup protection against prolonged power cuts and avoid locations where they might be knocked out by flooding.

O2 Airwave is a TETRA (Terrestrial Trunked Radio) network. This allows for two way radio communication which GSM does not. This page provides an insight in to TETRA and contains a list of organisations who can apply for service from O2 Airwave.

See this story. O2's GSM network can prioritise emergency service calls and presumably the other 3 GSM networks can do so aswell.
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NGMsGhost
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Re: O2 Airwave Service - 084x/087x barred for Poli
Reply #21 - Nov 6th, 2006 at 8:23pm
 
4PetesSake wrote on Nov 4th, 2006 at 5:47pm:
P.S. (Different subject) On this forum, how do you know if someone sends you a Private Message?


There is an option you can set in Profile to send you an email when a new PM arrives and/or for a Pop Up box to appear telling you there is a new PM when you visit the forum.

Unfortunately neither of these options are turned by default so unless you enable them you will indeed be unaware when somebody sends you a new PM.  I recommend you enable these notifcation features.

In my view both PM options should be turned on by default when a member joins the forum and only turned off if people genuinely don't want the PM facility.  Sadly this is not the case at the present time. Sad
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4PetesSake
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Re: O2 Airwave Service - 084x/087x barred for Poli
Reply #22 - Nov 6th, 2006 at 8:47pm
 
Thanks, I have got them turned on now.
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Re: O2 Airwave Service - 084x/087x barred for Poli
Reply #23 - Nov 11th, 2006 at 2:24pm
 
It looks like I started a right one here! I have done some research and it appears we now have access to these numbers, although like all calls from Airwave they are subject to monitoring, however our force doesn't want them used on a full time basis, we are to use the geo alternatives (we have a very large file in most control rooms)

Another thing to note is the fact that O2 Airwave is a DIFFERENT network from O2 GSM, it used different transmitters (TeTRA)  normally in protected locations, and the network does have other functionality built in, for instance should it fail, a group of people in a local area and change settings on radios and still talk to each other, however it has some very worring faults as well.

But it is interesting to note that most forces now use 0845 numbers for public contact, however they all have geo contact numbers too, but you have to dig deep to find them.

Would TeTRA have made any difference on 7/7? No i don't think so, we was using TeTRA then, and it does NOT work underground yet, and it took o2 quite along time to get systems inplace at Russell Sq. for it to work underground.
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Re: O2 Airwave Service - 084x/087x barred for Poli
Reply #24 - Nov 11th, 2006 at 5:22pm
 
Sounds very interesting, that the police are trying to discourage use of 0870 and 0845, when it comes to making calls to that number, but they are very happy to provide this number for the public to use.

Maybe if they stood their ground, and decided to release a press statement that they won't use these numbers for public contact because they're a rip off, they might see a reduction on their phone bill, because other people have followed suit.

By encouraging their officers to use other means of contact means they know there's something wrong with the numbers, so why do they still continue.
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I realy hait itt wen peeple canot spel proply. Itt getts onn mye nervs sew mutch annd streses mee owt. Knot onley iz itt vary bade speling butt allso bade gramer.
 
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Re: O2 Airwave Service - 084x/087x barred for Poli
Reply #25 - Nov 12th, 2006 at 10:12am
 
FLG wrote on Nov 11th, 2006 at 2:24pm:
Another thing to note is the fact that O2 Airwave is a DIFFERENT network from O2 GSM, it used different transmitters (TeTRA)  normally in protected locations, and the network does have other functionality built in, for instance should it fail, a group of people in a local area and change settings on radios and still talk to each other, however it has some very worring faults as well.
The Sitefinder website does list TETRA transmitters (well it listed one not far from ours) but I agree for security reasons there are possibly some hidden.
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Re: O2 Airwave Service - 084x/087x barred for Poli
Reply #26 - Nov 12th, 2006 at 10:12am
 
Shiggaddi wrote on Nov 11th, 2006 at 5:22pm:
By encouraging their officers to use other means of contact means they know there's something wrong with the numbers, so why do they still continue.
Maybe because they really don't care how much it costs the public to ring them so long as they've got their stats (or whatever other reason they use these numbers for) as in most cases its nothing much to do with advanced network features like call routing, etc.
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NGMsGhost
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Re: O2 Airwave Service - 084x/087x barred for Poli
Reply #27 - Nov 12th, 2006 at 11:48pm
 
bbb_uk wrote on Nov 12th, 2006 at 10:12am:
Maybe because they really don't care how much it costs the public to ring them so long as they've got their stats (or whatever other reason they use these numbers for) as in most cases its nothing much to do with advanced network features like call routing, etc.


They should care because the extra charge makes people more inclined to call 999/112 instead which their 999/112 operators really don't want to happen.

Also with 101 now ditched and no prospect of Ofcom returning 0845 to geographic priced calls in the near future the whole issue of the inappropriate use of 0845 numbers by the Police again comes to the fore.

The most appropriate people to take this up with are the County Councillors on the Police Authority for each force as they ultimately have the power to force change on the Police, especially if the social exclusion issue due to premium charges for 0845 from PayPhones and PAYG mobiles can be pointed out. [/quote]
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« Last Edit: Nov 12th, 2006 at 11:49pm by NGMsGhost »  

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NGMsGhost
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Re: O2 Airwave Service - 084x/087x barred for Poli
Reply #28 - Nov 12th, 2006 at 11:51pm
 
bbb_uk wrote on Nov 12th, 2006 at 10:12am:
Sitefinder[/url] website does list TETRA transmitters (well it listed one not far from ours) but I agree for security reasons there are possibly some hidden.


The locations of these transmitters are not secret as many of them have had to obtain planning permission like other mobile phone masts in planning applications submitted under the name of O2 Airwave.  A lookup on any district or borough/council planning website will reveal lots of entries in the name of this firm.
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Heinz
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Re: O2 Airwave Service - 084x/087x barred for Poli
Reply #29 - Nov 13th, 2006 at 4:15pm
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Nov 12th, 2006 at 11:48pm:
Also with 101 now ditched and no prospect of Ofcom returning 0845 to geographic priced calls in the near future the whole issue of the inappropriate use of 0845 numbers by the Police again comes to the fore.

The most appropriate people to take this up with are the County Councillors on the Police Authority for each force as they ultimately have the power to force change on the Police, especially if the social exclusion issue due to premium charges for 0845 from PayPhones and PAYG mobiles can be pointed out.

So, in my case, that'll be Essex County Council then.

That used to be 01245 492211 and, now, it's NOT!
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« Last Edit: Nov 13th, 2006 at 4:25pm by Heinz »  

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After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015
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