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Spare a thought for UK businesses… (Read 108,666 times)
kk
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Re: Spare a thought for UK businesses…
Reply #90 - Nov 16th, 2006 at 4:32pm
 
Most of the telephone consumers I speak to, assume that “long distance” 01/02 calls within the UK are charged more than “local calls”, and are reluctant to make calls to telephones located outside the local area..  Few realise that all customers pay 3p/min or less for any type of 01/02 call, except a small number of users on the special “low user rate”.

BT should publicise the fact that the local/national rate has been abolished and enjoy the increased revenue that would flow from an increase in call volume.
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Heinz
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Re: Spare a thought for UK businesses…
Reply #91 - Nov 16th, 2006 at 4:51pm
 
And that's more than 2 years after the change!

Someone at BT Marketing needs a kick up the ....
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After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015
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Re: Spare a thought for UK businesses…
Reply #92 - Nov 16th, 2006 at 5:32pm
 
Heinz wrote on Nov 16th, 2006 at 4:51pm:
And that's more than 2 years after the change!

Someone at BT Marketing needs a kick up the ....


But perhaps they do not wish to draw attention to the fact that 0870 is no longer National Rate. Wink

There is probably more money to be made from people calling 0870 at peak rate thinking it is only a standard national call than there is money to be made from more fixed 5.5p per call for 1 hour national calls off peak............... Roll Eyes
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Re: Spare a thought for UK businesses…
Reply #93 - Dec 6th, 2006 at 8:24pm
 
0870 Advice,

There has been a discussion that got going on over in the Site Related section of the site about how you came to know the precise 03 number access codes would be 0300, 0303, 0345 and 0370.  I made a rather interesting discovery that its all fully laid out in Ofcom's consulation document "Safeguarding the Future of Numbers" which is the one Ofcom consultation I never had time to fully plough through the 175 pages of (also it was just too depressing after seeing the summary of its proposals) after of course fully reading every page of the NTS Options For the Future and NTS Way Forward consultations.

Anyhow I thought it would be useful to bring the comments I made there here as follows and see if you wanted to follow up on the points I have made.

I think we are all united that Ofcom's proposals are a total disgrace that won't help anyone better understand what they are paying for NGN phone calls and leave everyone either very unhappy and/or in a quandy about how they should react to them.  Here are my comments.

This is the thread on Site Related as follows:-

www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1165067612/0

Quote:
A quick Google reveals that 0870 Advice who actually has to deal with selling these new number ranges and make his living from them (unlike us) is taking his comments from none other than the table on Page 130 of Ofcom's own Consultation document - Safeguarding The Future of Numbers:-

www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/numberingreview/statement/statement.pdf

This can be summarised as:-

0300  Reserved for the public sector for brand new 03 NGN numbers or services with no historic legacy 0844, 0845 or 0870 related preceding services.

0303  Reserved for everyone else apart from the public sector wanting an NGN but with no historic legacy connection with 0844, 0845 or 0870

0344/0345  Reserved for existing users of 0844 and 0845 numbers who want to migrate to an NGN numbers only charged at geographic rates and included in inclusive call packages fro 01/02 numbers

0870/0871 Reserved for existing users of 0870 and 0871 numbers who want to migrate to NGN numbers only charged at geographic rates and included in inclusive call packages to 01/02 numbers.

Well, well I don't know how we missed this.  No doubt it was our failing to read the full 175 pages worth. Wink Shocked Cry

This new plan is quite clearly designed to completely confuse the public so they won't have a clue what they are paying.  Just what the call centre industy ordered in other words.

So 0300 will be for the public sector except that most public sector operators will be migrating and 0844, 0845 or 0870 number so would end up on 0344, 0345 or 0370 where they are entitled to the exact equivalent to their old 08 NGN with just the new prefix.  So hardly anyone will have 0300 and 0300 due to the 03 designation will be confused with 0500 and 0800 calls.  Just brilliant Ofcom.  An email spoofer or spammer couldn't have done better to devise such a devious plan.

Then 0303 will gradually increase in size as new people wanting NGNs with call redirection with no legacy number want them. No problem here and surely the public sector should also just have got these for new services since most will in fact be migrating 0844 and 0845 numbers where they will be mixed up with the private sector.  But hang on doesn't 0303 look like 0808 and wrongly imply its Freephone again.  Oh dear Ofcom - what a tangled web of deviousness you weave to protect the bank balances of your Telco chums.

0370 - Ummmm clearly I have missed something obvious but as 0870 will be changed to geographic rate (unless there is an announcement by your OCP that they want to scam you for more despite there no longer being a revenue share that justifies them doing so) why would anyone want to migrate an 0870 number to 0370 with all the marketing confusion that involves.  Only reason I can think is because 0870 will continue to be tarred in some minds with the brush of not being part of inclusive call packages especially due to Ofcom allowing the OCP scam loophole with call price announcement

0871 - Apparently for migrating 0871 numbers that will no longer be premium rate.  Yeah sure I bet there will be loads of them migrating to 03 won't there? Roll Eyes  And if they do they will really want to go on ending the number with 71 which implies it is expensive. Huh Undecided Cry
So in other words some clown at Ofcom spent about five minutes thrashing out with their telco chums what would best further confuse the public about what they are paying for NGN calls and came up with this.  Just brilliant Ofcom.  Now that's what I call really protecting the UK citizen consumer and being fully compliant with the EU Misleading Advertisng Directive.  What a shame Ofcom never asked consumers rather than the telcos what new NGN structure they might find most helpful. Wink Roll Eyes Angry Cry Cry Cry

What a pity I couldn't muster the strength to respond to this consultation so soon after NTS Way Forward and all the other Ofcom consultations I had written pages to respond to only to be ignored.  Still if I had responded no doubt I would have ignored anyway and Ofcom would have still proceeded anyway with their Masterplan previously agreed with their telco chums who attend their NTS Focus Groups sessions. Angry Angry Angry
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« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2006 at 8:27pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: Spare a thought for UK businesses…
Reply #94 - Dec 9th, 2006 at 8:28pm
 
Hi we  are a small business and haved used an 0845 for more than 5 years, the reason we did this was because when we moved office from Liverpool to Skelmersdale we could not take our 0151 number with us.

We had operator announce on our 0151 number for 5 years informing of the new number and wrote to all our customers telling them of the new number. Believe it or not 7 years after moving office I bumped into an old customer on a night out and he thought we had gone out of business as he was dialing the old 0151 number.

We new we would be moving again in the next 2-3 years so we decided to use an 0845 number because at that time 0845 was the same price as a local call.

Since then with inclusive minutes etc and some operators charging more for 0845 numbers the cost of calling our number varies.

The major operators still do not offer number potability, (Although it is technically possible), I am experimenting with voip numbers and one of the operators based in London will give me an 0151 number which can be routed via voip into our phone system, however the call quality is variable.

Why carnt BT or other operators allow me to transfer my 0151 number at no additional cost to anyarea that i might move to? I would not need to have an 0845 number then.

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Re: Spare a thought for UK businesses…
Reply #95 - Dec 9th, 2006 at 11:00pm
 
degsod wrote on Dec 9th, 2006 at 8:28pm:
Why carnt BT or other operators allow me to transfer my 0151 number at no additional cost to anyarea that i might move to? I would not need to have an 0845 number then.




And why didnt the post office let me take my post code when I moved? Inconvienient really, damn companies.
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Re: Spare a thought for UK businesses…
Reply #96 - Dec 10th, 2006 at 11:58am
 
degsod wrote on Dec 9th, 2006 at 8:28pm:
Why carnt BT or other operators allow me to transfer my 0151 number at no additional cost to anyarea that i might move to? I would not need to have an 0845 number then.


And why couldn't you just have written to all your customers and have paid for an announcement for a year of the new 01/02 number as you would have done before 0845 numbers came along rather than falling for the 0845 scam. Undecided

Anyhow soon you will be able to get a new 0345 number which will be the same as your 0845 apart from the prefix and allegedly is portable (until phone numbers themselves vanish which must happen in the next 10 years) but won't cost your callers anything more than an 01/02 number.

Of course you rather than your cusomers will be required to pay a small service fee per call for this convenience but it will be less than 0800 although more than 0845 unless you were being ripped off on your 0845 deal.

And what's the betting that your outfit was calling its 0845 "local rate" or "lo-call"  And that you don't publish your 01/02 number anywhere? Wink Shocked

Convenience in case you move is a poor excuse for using 0845.  Just publicising your number change would have been an adequate alternative.
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Re: Spare a thought for UK businesses…
Reply #97 - Dec 10th, 2006 at 10:40pm
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Dec 10th, 2006 at 11:58am:
And why couldn't you just have written to all your customers and have paid for an announcement for a year of the new 01/02 number as you would have done before 0845 numbers came along rather than falling for the 0845 scam. Undecided

[color==#ff0000]We did pay for operator announcement for 5 years, thi did not work as people did not take note of new numbers.[/color]

NGMsGhost wrote on Dec 10th, 2006 at 11:58am:
Anyhow soon you will be able to get a new 0345 number which will be the same as your 0845 apart from the prefix and allegedly is portable (until phone numbers themselves vanish which must happen in the next 10 years) but won't cost your callers anything more than an 01/02 number.

[color==#ff0000]Yet another number change, how long before Ofcomm decide they have cock that up and change the numbers yet again, years ago 0345 was local call.[/color]

NGMsGhost wrote on Dec 10th, 2006 at 11:58am:
Of course you rather than your cusomers will be required to pay a small service fee per call for this convenience but it will be less than 0800 although more than 0845 unless you were being ripped off on your 0845 deal.

We Set up an 0800 number as well, I would much prefer to have number portability than be ripped of on 0845 0870 0871 etc


NGMsGhost wrote on Dec 10th, 2006 at 11:58am:
And what's the betting that your outfit was calling its 0845 "local rate" or "lo-call"  And that you don't publish your 01/02 number anywhere? Wink Shocked

You are so wrong, we do not say 0845 is local rate or lo call we just publish the number.


NGMsGhost wrote on Dec 10th, 2006 at 11:58am:
Convenience in case you move is a poor excuse for using 0845.  Just publicising your number change would have been an adequate alternative.

It's not convenience, its a fact, we sent out several mailings saying we are moving then several saying we have moved, we paid for operator announcement for 5 years, hardly the actions of a company trying to rip off its customers as you are trying to make out. Like I said erlier, If I could have transferred my original 0151 number I would not have had to look at other options. Offcomm has a lot to answer for. Just look at the mess they have made getting rid of 192. Sure there is choice but it costs a lot more than it did.


~ Edit by Dave: Quote boxes added.
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« Last Edit: Dec 10th, 2006 at 10:50pm by Dave »  
 
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Re: Spare a thought for UK businesses…
Reply #98 - Dec 10th, 2006 at 10:55pm
 
Oh, and one other small point when a customer calls our 0845 number the call is answered with in 30 seconds by our call centre who take the customers name and phone number.

The customer is then informed that the details will be passed on to the person and they will call back. That information is then emailed to correct person whi will call the customer back at our cost.

Not all companies are rip off merchants as you suggest, but are trying to make a living and survive.
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Re: Spare a thought for UK businesses…
Reply #99 - Dec 10th, 2006 at 11:03pm
 
OK I can see you have been trying to do the right thing then but confused why you would have the 0845 number and the 0800 then and not just the 0800?

As to people still using the old number well human nature being what it is they will do until you cut the old one off of course Wink

The thing is to back up the disconnection of the old number on the day it is cut off with postal mailings or emailings that remind people.
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« Last Edit: Dec 10th, 2006 at 11:03pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: Spare a thought for UK businesses…
Reply #100 - Dec 10th, 2006 at 11:18pm
 
That is exactly what we did, in total we sent out 15 mailings to remind people of the phone number change, as you say about human nature, that is why i didn't want to change numbers again.

We give out the 0845 number to suplliers and the 0800 number for customers, both numbers are on our stationery, The 0800 number is on our website for Sales and Tech support and the 0845 number is for General enquiries/Suppliers.

But all of the messing about with numbers could have been avoided if  we could have transferred our geographical number.

There should be no reason why we  carnt have full number portability, just BT dragging their feet as usual.
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Re: Spare a thought for UK businesses…
Reply #101 - Dec 10th, 2006 at 11:59pm
 
degsod wrote on Dec 10th, 2006 at 11:18pm:
There should be no reason why we  carnt have full number portability, just BT dragging their feet as usual.


Only reason is because OfCoN and their predecessor OFTEL allowed BT to charge a fortune in extra call charges for providing standard call diversion on a geographic 01/02 numbers and allowed BT to set up a system that let businesses have free call diversion so long as customers paid a fortune for making the calls instead.

Yet Ofcom's primary duty is supposed to be the best interests of uk citizen consumers. Wink Roll Eyes Huh Undecided Angry Angry Cry Cry
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Re: Spare a thought for UK businesses…
Reply #102 - Dec 12th, 2006 at 6:26pm
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Dec 10th, 2006 at 11:59pm:
Only reason is because OfCoN and their predecessor OFTEL allowed BT to charge a fortune in extra call charges for providing standard call diversion on a geographic 01/02 numbers and allowed BT to set up a system that let businesses have free call diversion so long as customers paid a fortune for making the calls instead.

Yet Ofcom's primary duty is supposed to be the best interests of uk citizen consumers. Wink Roll Eyes Huh Undecided Angry Angry Cry Cry

I agree completely, OFTEL have never done anything in the interest of the consumer, all they are interested in is making it more difficult and confusing for the consumer and the honest businesses who just want to use the phone as a tool.

Look at the ripoff with the 0506 VOIP numbers, it costs more to dial aVOIP number than it does to call a mobile. Until OFTEL started messing about directory enquiries was free of charge, then they made BT give us £1 a quarter back off our bills and charge us 50p per call, now we pay 50p per minute and stupid amounts if we fall for letting them connect us.

It could be nice and simple of they just had 01/02 for geoneral numbers with full portability. 07 for mobile, 08 for freephone and 09 for premium rate services. Also they should make it mandatory that you have to opt in to being able to dial 07 and 09 numbers.

There are some telco's who wont let you bar 09 numbers. But then this is asking them to do the right thing for the consumer which is something that is not going to happen anytime soon.
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Re: Spare a thought for UK businesses…
Reply #103 - Dec 12th, 2006 at 7:22pm
 
degsod wrote on Dec 12th, 2006 at 6:26pm:
There are some telco's who wont let you bar 09 numbers. But then this is asking them to do the right thing for the consumer which is something that is not going to happen anytime soon.


Not so long as OfCoN is allowed to remain in charge of proceedings I agree.

If the OFT was allowed to investigate these matters instead of telecoms competition being an issue only for Ofcom then it might be a different story.
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