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GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire) (Read 891,424 times)
Dave
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Re: Doctors Surgeries
Reply #420 - Jun 9th, 2011 at 12:45pm
 
Martin_rosen wrote on Jun 9th, 2011 at 11:50am:
Their leaflet explains that the cost of 4.6pm is equivalent to a first class stamp for a 10 mintue call (irrelevant - who writes to their doctor for an appointment  !).

And these are BT rates are they? 4.6ppm for a 0844 number..not sure what they're talking about but there's no such number charged at that rate, whether the price includes VAT or not.

Most GPs on 0844 numbers are using g6 ones which is 4.255ppm exc VAT and 5.105ppm inc VAT. The 0844 g11 number type (the next one down pricewise) is what they've been signing up to recently (based on those cases I've seen) and it is 3.404ppm excluding VAT and 4.084ppm inclusive of VAT. All calls incur a Call Set-up Fee of 12.5 pence.


Martin_rosen wrote on Jun 9th, 2011 at 11:50am:
They also write that they will not be making a profit from these calls.   If it is break-even, then they may as well keep the old system.

Ah, that old chestnut! Roll Eyes

I refer to the most recent blogging from NHS Patient:

Quote:
It is for accountants and economists to determine whether such financial benefit is properly described as "income", "profit", "subsidy" or whatever. There can be no dispute that financial benefit is achieved in some way. (Claims by some NHS bodies that they allow their telephone company to retain this benefit without any consideration demand investigation.)



Martin_rosen wrote on Jun 9th, 2011 at 11:50am:
The best one is that they say it is 'fully compliant with all NHS regulations'.    They obiviously haven't been made aware of the Secretary of State for the Department of Health who gave a Direction to NHS bodies in 2009, which said that these calls must be equivalent to a geographical number.   I have geographical numbers in my 'free' package, and if I extended it to 0845 calls, I would still have to pay for this number.

Clearly these people have never used a mobile phone, or are aware of the BT Unlimited Anytime Calling Plan in which all normal calls are included and likewise Talk Anytime from TalkTalk. They have obviously missed all advertisements for a company by the name of Virgin Media.
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« Last Edit: Jun 9th, 2011 at 1:47pm by Dave »  
 
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Martin_rosen
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Re: Doctors Surgeries
Reply #421 - Jun 9th, 2011 at 4:21pm
 
Thank you for this Dave.  I shall incorporate it into my letter.
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Re: Doctors Surgeries
Reply #422 - May 8th, 2012 at 5:30pm
 
Horsham patients paying £1.60 a minute to call the doctor’s surgery




Published on Tuesday 8 May 2012 17:04

PATIENTS paying up to £1.60 a minute calling their doctors’ surgeries are not being given the option to be called back despite work by NHS Sussex to help reduce charges.

Following a Parliamentary debate in January where ministers highlighted patients’ concerns about calling 0844 numbers to make appointments, NHS Sussex is working with surgeries to make sure patients are not charged premium rates and should be given the option to be called back.

However, despite work by the trust, Francis Szilagi, a patient at Park Surgery in Albion Way, Horsham, said he has spent £1.60 a minute on the phone to the surgery.

Mr Szilagi, of Oak Road, Southwater, said: “I am a pay as you go mobile phone user.

“These days, when I want to make an appointment it is cheaper to actually go there on the bus from Southwater and make an appointment in person.

“Depending when they answer the phone and how good the person dealing with you is, it can cost £5 to £6 - a lot more expensive than calling [the County Times] office, for instance.”

In the Government debate on January 25 health minister Simon Burns said that patients should not pay more than what it would cost to call a landline number, including when calling from mobiles.

If this were the case Derek Goodhall, of Farhall Crescent, Horsham, would not have paid more than £2 for a 17-minute call to his surgery.

He said: “I recently had the need for an urgent appointment with a doctor at our local surgery, and this involved making two calls, as on the first call I was advised that there were no further emergency appointments available on that day, and to call again on the following day, as soon after eight o’clock as possible, in order to secure a place on the list.

“A maximum of four minutes was spent actually talking to the receptionists during these calls, and as I pay 3p a minute for local calls, the cost would have been 12p.

“My telephone bill shows that I have been charged £1.36 for 17 minutes, and £1.04 of this was for on-hold time.

“Bear a thought also for the other 35 patients who were also on-hold initially during my second call.”

A spokesman for NHS Sussex said they are working with surgeries to help patients.

He said: “None of our practices are in breach of their contracts by having an 0844 telephone number.

“We are assured that all our practices which use an 0844 number offer a call-back system. We regularly audit this.

“We have made practices aware of alternative telephone systems to the 0844 number and continue to encourage them to consider these alternatives as their contract term ends.

“We take our responsibility on this matter very seriously and are currently working with our practices to review what other steps, over and above the contractual requirements, can be taken to ensure there are no barriers to patients contacting their GP practice.”

Mr Szilagi said Park Surgery has never offered to call him back.

“The surgery has never mentioned this, and when I once asked them to call me back because my credit was low they refused. My partner called them this morning and the receptionist said ‘we don’t do that’,” he said.

A spokesman from Park Surgery said: “We are currently looking into establishing a local number for patients to contact us on.

“While we are advised by BT that our 0844 number costs around 2p less per minute than the local rate for the vast majority of telephone contracts, establishing a local number alongside this will ensure that patients have the option to use an alternative number should they choose to do so.

“If a patient has a specific issue and needs to be called back we would expect our staff to be considerate to their needs.”


Source:-
http://www.wscountytimes.co.uk/news/local/horsham-patients-paying-1-60-a-minute-...
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catj
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Re: Doctors Surgeries
Reply #423 - May 8th, 2012 at 5:59pm
 
Quote:
None of our practices are in breach of their contracts by having an 0844 telephone number.

Simply by having an 0844 number, they are in breach of their contract.


Quote:
While we are advised by BT that our 0844 number costs around 2p less per minute than the local rate for the vast majority of telephone contracts,

What sort of fantasy land do these idiots live in?

There's no such thing as 'local rate', and hasn't been since about 2005 or so.

0844 numbers cost more to call than 01/02/03 numbers for the vast majority of people using a landline.

0844 numbers cost more to call than 01/02/03 numbers for all users of mobile phones.
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« Last Edit: May 8th, 2012 at 10:08pm by catj »  
 
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Dave
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #424 - May 8th, 2012 at 7:32pm
 
Quote:
A spokesman for NHS Sussex said they are working with surgeries to help patients.

He said: “None of our practices are in breach of their contracts by having an 0844 telephone number.

“We are assured that all our practices which use an 0844 number offer a call-back system. We regularly audit this.

“We have made practices aware of alternative telephone systems to the 0844 number and continue to encourage them to consider these alternatives as their contract term ends.

“We take our responsibility on this matter very seriously and are currently working with our practices to review what other steps, over and above the contractual requirements, can be taken to ensure there are no barriers to patients contacting their GP practice.”

The GMS Contract says that call-backs should be offered only after all possible "reasonable" steps have been exhausted.

So either:

1. NHS Sussex is engaged in a dereliction of duty by not enforcing contracts - It is normal industry practice for telephone providers to allow customers to change numbers from 084 to 034 within the terms of their contract. Such a move by the GPs in Sussex would merely remove the illegal charges which they placed on patients, a move which is "reasonable".

- OR -

2. One or more phone system providers (providers to the GPs) are acting to prevent their customers from complying with the NHS Constitution - If the provider(s) in question deviat from the norm and impose a penalty for any GP that wishes to switch number, then it/they should be named and shamed. I haven't come across any evidence of such penalties.
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« Last Edit: May 8th, 2012 at 7:35pm by Dave »  
 
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #425 - May 9th, 2012 at 8:13am
 
The West Sussex County Times quotes the surgery as saying :

While we are advised by BT that our 0844 number costs around 2p less per minute than the local rate for the vast majority of telephone contracts, establishing a local number alongside this will ensure that patients have the option to use an alternative number should they choose to do so."

This is just NOT CREDIBLE.  Would BT actially say this and stand by such a statemernt?

Can we contact the BT PR/Press department and get their comments on this.    We might find that the surgery have been caught telling lies as many surgeries and PCTs have been doing over the years regarding the abuse of patients and use of 0844 numbers.
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Campaignagainstripofftelecoms  
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #426 - May 9th, 2012 at 9:37am
 
I think this is the only quote that is needed:

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2012-03-27a.1326.4&s=%28no+OR+not%29+A...

There it is in black and white direct from the Secretary of State.
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Dave
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #427 - May 9th, 2012 at 1:54pm
 
loddon wrote on May 9th, 2012 at 8:13am:
The West Sussex County Times quotes the surgery as saying :

While we are advised by BT that our 0844 number costs around 2p less per minute than the local rate for the vast majority of telephone contracts, establishing a local number alongside this will ensure that patients have the option to use an alternative number should they choose to do so."

This is just NOT CREDIBLE.  Would BT actially say this and stand by such a statemernt?

The BT Press Office said last August that Unlimited Anytime is now its most popular plan. For subscribers to this package, calls to geographic and 03 numbers are free of charge, whilst 0844 g6 numbers are still the same price of 5.105 pence per minute plus 13.1 pence Call Set-up Fee. Calls to 0844 g11 numbers cost 4.084 pence per minute (plus the same Call Set-up Fee).
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catj
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #428 - May 9th, 2012 at 3:42pm
 
So, black and white evidence that for the vast majority of BT customers 0844 numbers cost more to call than 01/02/03 numbers.

Kinda disputes the rubbish spouted by the minions at the surgery.
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Re:
Reply #429 - May 10th, 2012 at 12:38pm
 
The following post appeared earlier (and then disappeared - the link will come back to this post).

ripoffbritain4 wrote on May 10th, 2012 at 9:19am:
Hi,
BBC1's Consumer affairs programme Rip Off Britain are currently looking for all your stories. Whatever the rip off we want to hear from you. We'd particularly like to hear from anyone who is happy to talk about the 0844 or 0845 numbers that GP's are seemingly still using. You can get in touch with us via email in the first instance at ripoffbritain@bb.co.uk.

We looking forward to hearing from you.

The message appeared to be repeating the essence of information already published on the Rip Off Britain webpage, so the request stands in principle.

The email address is not as stated (mis-typed?), it is ripoffbritain@bbc.co.uk.

Rip Off Britain 1 did a good piece on the issue - watch here.

Efforts to get suitable "victims" to feature on Rip Off Britain 3 were not successful - see this posting.
This web site did however secure some very favourable coverage from a road show item.
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Dave
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #430 - May 15th, 2012 at 4:03am
 
Another surgery has jumped on the bandwagon:

HIGHAMS PARK: Outrage over surgery call cost hike

Quote:
THE boss of a GP surgery which has opted to introduce a more expensive 0844 number has said hard-up patients should "negotiate a better deal" for using their mobile phones.

Handsworth Medical Practice in Highams Park has been heavily criticised for penalising people who are ill at a time when household budgets are being squeezed.

[…]

But practice manager Josie Camplin defended the move.

She said: "The number was changed because we had to have a new telephone system and that’s the number we were issued.

"It’s cheaper than most rates on BT landlines. [Patients] need to negotiate a new mobile phone package."

Of course, in practice, telephone users don't have any power to negotiate; they must take what tariffs are on offer. It's a case of "take it or leave it".

The most popular BT package is the Unlimited Anytime one and calls now cost just over 4 pence per minute (plus the 13.1p connection fee) more whereas calls to a geographic number would cost nothing.

The GMS Contract states:
Quote:
29B. The Contractor shall not enter into, renew or extend a contract or other arrangement for telephone services unless it is satisfied that, having regard to the arrangement as a whole, persons will not pay more to make relevant calls to the practice than they would to make equivalent calls to a geographical number.

Clearly the Practice knows that calls do cost more as she wouldn't be suggesting that it is up to patients to "negotiate a better deal".
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #431 - May 16th, 2012 at 5:21pm
 
Source: Northamptonshire Evening Telegraph

Ill feeling over phone call cost

Quote:
A medical practice has been urged to drop its high-cost phone line after it was branded unfair by patients.

Rothwell and Desborough Healthcare Group introduced an 0844 number for the newly-opened Rothwell Medical Centre, in Desborough Road, this year.
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #432 - May 18th, 2012 at 12:10pm
 
Concern over cost of phone calls to GPs

Quote:
Ten practices in Crawley are using 0844 numbers instead of the local area code and patients claim this is escalating prices for mobile phone users trying to book appointments.

A spokesman for NHS Sussex said the cost of using 0844 numbers was the same as a local call for people using a land line.


The local MP, Henry Smith, is getting involved.
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« Last Edit: May 18th, 2012 at 12:11pm by kasg »  
 
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Dave
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #433 - May 18th, 2012 at 4:19pm
 
fairtelecoms has published NHS 084 numbers - Evidence of call charges which gives many examples of where callers pay more to ring 084 numbers. The document is spread over 2 PDF files, one of which includes a table of call rates and indication where callers pay more and the other document contains copies of providers' pricing literature along with annotations to assist with interpretation of the data.

The page ends with a list of packages where 084 numbers cost more (this list is also included in the main document).
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #434 - May 18th, 2012 at 4:21pm
 
Source: The Yorkshire Times

MP WINNING CAMPAIGN AGAINST 'RIP-OFF' DOCTORS' PHONE NUMBERS

Quote:
Dozens of GPs have stopped - or pledged to stop - using rip-off phone numbers just months after they were criticised by a local MP.

In December, John Healey's research showed two thirds of doctors' surgeries in Rotherham and a third of those in Barnsley had 0844 or 0845 numbers - which can cost patients 40p per minute.

Now, in Rotherham, although 23 surgeries still have 084 numbers, 21 have begun taking steps to change their number and should have moved to a geographical rate by the end of June.

In Barnsley the last practice will migrate to a geographical rate this month.
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