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SAYNOTO0870.COM › Main Forum › Geographical Numbers Chat › Utility supply 0845

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Utility supply 0845 (Read 13,041 times)

japitts

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North Bristol
Gender: male

Utility supply 0845
Oct 4^th, 2011 at 8:12am

Not sure if this is a discussion so much as a small success in complaining:

We recently returned from a couple of weeks holiday to find a card from the local utility firm requiring access to our property to access a manhole cover in our back garden. No problem with this, except they expected us to call their 0845 number to arrange an appointment.

This is an 0845 number for which there is an alternative on this site, but I thought "no, they want me to call so they can give me an 01/02/03 number. If people don't complain, they'll never know". So I wrote back by email - kept it short and sweet but firmly refusing to call 084x and offering either our landline number or wanting an alternative number.

A day or so later, a standard reply came saying they would arrange to call us, but then giving the standard corporate spiel as copied below...

"I have arranged for an agent to call you on the number provided in your email. If you would like to contact us again about this, please call our customer service unit on 0845 xxxxxxx and quote reference number xxxxxxxx. A customer service advisor will be happy to help.

I can confirm the 0845 number you mention in your e-mail is charged at a local rate from a landline, no matter where a customer may live in the (name of firm) region. This charge varies from 4p per minute at peak time to 1p per minute at off-peak."

Thought nothing more of it and yesterday they called back from a mobile number (company-account, presumably). Appointment duly arranged, and we came to the situation of how I would advise them if circumstances changed and whether I had their number. You can see where this is going... yes I do but I'm not calling an 084x number. The person went away and checked with a colleague and many murmurings later I was supplied with their 01x direct dial. This doesn't tally with the 01x alternative on this site, but I accept it's their "personal" line so it's not suitable for adding to here.

The whole thing just struck me that they probably know in themselves that people don't like calling 084x, but are determined to stick with the number regardless. Either that, or reluctant to accept they may have to make alternative arrangements sometimes.

P.S. Once the appointment has been and gone, I'll be quite happy to name and shame this firm.

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SilentCallsVictim

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aka NHS.Patient, DH_fairtelecoms

Posts: 2,494

Re: Utility supply 0845
Reply #1 - Oct 4^th, 2011 at 4:16pm

A very familiar story.

I know that some are keen to push the conspiracy angle, but I have long been convinced that many users of 0845 numbers genuinely believe that they are doing callers from outside their local area a favour.

They have simply failed to catch up on what happened in 2004 and do not recognise that the former "local rate" restriction and the current regulations apply only to BT. They probably also fail to understand that BT now originates slightly less than 25% of non-business telephone calls made in the UK - around 40% of residential landline calls.

In some cases the answer is to simply abandon the 0845 number (as it no longer offers any significant benefit) and publish only a 01/02 number. Apart from the cost and inconvenience of change, this would have no significant impact on the user.

Things are more complicated where the user benefits from advanced features such as variable routing of calls. With a 0845 number they are probably getting these features at little or no cost, but if they switched to 03, or got them deployed on a geographic number, then they would have to pay for them. On 03 they would have to pay for the very benefit of having a non-geographic number.

Perhaps the most pressing argument, which will get many people thinking, is the forthcoming regulatory changes. Ofcom will be making an announcement of its plans later this year (or early in 2012). The most likely option (so I understand) is that of "unbundling". This would require the user of any "Business Rate" (084/087) number to declare the level of their "Service Charge" (currently around 2p per minute for 0845) as well as the existence of a "Access Charge" - set by each individual call originating telephone company.

Ofcom believes that there is strong demand for such a facility, even under these terms, whereas I am inclined to believe that this will simply scare many people away from using 0845 numbers (perhaps including the company referred to here).

@fairtelecoms (tweets)

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bbb_uk

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Re: Utility supply 0845
Reply #2 - Oct 4^th, 2011 at 5:23pm

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Oct 4^th, 2011 at 4:16pm:

...but I have long been convinced that many users of 0845 numbers genuinely believe that they are doing callers from outside their local area a favour.

I believe some users do think that and amongst reasons you have specified the other reason is that some telephone providers (last I checked) still make reference to local/national in their spiel when trying to sell 08x numbers.

However, not as many telephone companies do this now compared to say a year or two ago.

It took a long time to get the OCPs to stop referring to them as local/national rate.

Some end companies may have a genuine need for call facilities as provided by NGNs and it's cheaper, but not right, them using 0845. However, end companies of the now little-used 0870, the more common 0844 and to a lesser degree 0871 numbers are, in my opinion, mostly using these number ranges (not 0870 anymore obviously) to make money.

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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Utility supply 0845
Reply #3 - Oct 4^th, 2011 at 6:10pm

bbb_uk wrote on Oct 4^th, 2011 at 5:23pm:

... the other reason is that some telephone providers (last I checked) still make reference to local/national in their spiel when trying to sell 08x numbers.

Good point; the myth is being wrongly perpetrated by telephone companies.

It is also worth mentioning that the official Numbering Plan still contains references that have not been updated to reflect revisions to regulations that have been implemented.

bbb_uk wrote on Oct 4^th, 2011 at 5:23pm:

However, end companies of ... 0844 and ... 0871 numbers are, in my opinion, mostly using these number ranges ... to make money.

They are "making money" over what they should be paying for their telephone service, by reducing their costs and thereby adding to their profit. Anyone who is accommodating, equipping and paying staff to answer calls is not actually earning net revenue out of whatever is left (of the up to 10p per minute including VAT) after their telephone service has been paid for.

Costs may be low offshore and extended hold times helps, but I do not think that one could actually "make money" simply by inviting calls to even the most expensive (g7) 0871 number.

This is the sense in which the phrase is normally used. You can hear a radio interviewer (who should know better) mis-using the term in this context, and being corrected, here

@fairtelecoms (tweets)

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CJT-80

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Re: Utility supply 0845
Reply #4 - Oct 4^th, 2011 at 10:40pm

Good Evening,

I thought I was just make a brief point on this.

I am looking to replace my mobile phone, I look at 2 Manufacturers, one has an 0845 number the other an 0870 number. I decided to find other ways of contacting them.

I used the online chat service and was very pleased with the reponses given. I decided to ask the agent from the company with the 0870 number if their was an alternative number. The answer was No!

I shall persist, but if they DO have a number their staff have not been told.

Sorry for the longer reponse!

Regards,

CJT-80

Any comments made are my own and are not those of SayNoTo0870.com

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japitts

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North Bristol
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Re: Utility supply 0845 (Wessex Water)
Reply #5 - Oct 20^th, 2011 at 4:12pm

Ok, well the appointment has long since been and gone - and I played email ping-pong with their CS, where I actually got quite a decent reply. I've stripped out all the personal bits:

"The delivery number for our 0845 600 4 600 number is 01225 470110 and, if you need any more of the many landline numbers for Wessex or Bristol Water, they can be found on the saynoto0870 website. We do not openly advertise these landline numbers as there are so many of them and we still get customer service benefits from our telco provider that are not available from landline numbers. The telco service is particularly useful when we have a large influx of calls following a loss of water supply over a large area, for example.

The question of which telephone number we should use is one that periodically comes up for debate. We normally find that we are literally "between a rock and a hard place" when we try to decide on the best way forward. What will benefit the customers of one company will often cause a problem for the customers of others. An example of this is where BT, amongst others, now include 0845 numbers in their range of landline numbers where there is no cost for the customer to call them. The situation is even more ridiculous for companies wanting to offer their customers free calls through the 0800 number range, but some mobile phone operators attach a premium rate to 0800 numbers called.

Rest assured that we make no money from the 0845 range of numbers we use and our key driver is always about what would be best for the customer. A change of telephone number would cost a significant sum in terms of vehicle and building signage changes, leaflets and all the other sources of this information and that cost would be picked up by our customers in increased charges. We have to balance this cost against the low number of calls we would expect the average customer to make to us and the cost of the calls some of those customers may experience."

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catj Senior Member Offline Posts: 366	Re: Utility supply 0845 Reply #6 - Oct 20^th, 2011 at 5:30pm Perhaps they could take the costs out of their 212 million quid profit?
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