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I've never really understood this site's premise? (Read 26,580 times)
03700000000
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Re: I've never really understood this site's premise?
Reply #15 - Feb 23rd, 2014 at 11:19pm
 
My turn to rant...

I must be very dim then.

For as I have it, in calling a given organisation on a premium number that costs me much the same as calling a mobile, excepting some of that revenue goes to the people I call, I see as good. That is, if I have to pay that much in the first place?

And get htsi clear, a mobile user does expect me to pay that to call them. Few apologise when I call. In fact none do.

So, calling a mobile, here all of my billing goes to the telco... nope, given the choice, I'll take the revenue share alterantive anyday. I pay the same, but my call recipient gets paid as well.

I'm paying much the same anyway, so I'm damn sure in most instances I have more affinity with the called party getting a slice of my call revenue than the telco getting the lot. What's not to like?

All you have now done is added fuel to my origanal point.

Not only does anyone operating a mobile have no right to complain about NGN [my original point]  instead they should be telling us all to get revenue-share numbers. [my added point]
You see...

1. They (in most instances) cost less to call than a mobile.
2. Not all of the revenue goes to the telco.

The shark in colusion withe the telco  is indeed the mobile-user.

Revenue share numbers if they are costing about the same to call as a mobile, and with a few exceptiosn they do, or on my tariff are free, are thus BRILLIANT!

I humbly apologise, however I see a domain name change:

SayYesTo0870.com

On my business tariff and on many residentials if you ported your mobile to a 084X or 087X, we're quids in and you get revenue share (or you used to on some NGN). I belive 0870 has been stopped.

With the aid of the telcos, the shark is indeed the mobile-user. If they mention revenue-share into the pitch as well, they're really in for a hiding.

On that basis, and this is the important point, [no matter how the call cost comes about] how on earth can you operate a number costing more to dial than most NGNs and then complain about NGNs?

Er, you can't.

You'd need the morals of one of the larger organised religions in this world to pull  that one off. [Take you pick as to which one].

Bamboozle if you want, but....

Yes, I've never really understood this site's premise, or certainly 98% of those that choose to complain on it anyway?

Complain? How? Why? What with? That you're bigger hypocrite than the next guy?

Complain that you have double-standards to keep?

I say

Game.

Set...

Match.
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Re: I've never really understood this site's premise?
Reply #16 - Feb 24th, 2014 at 12:28am
 
Some further thoughts, for whatever they made add to the discussion.


This site - as such - has only one premise: find a cheaper number to call if you can.

Anyone, from any position, is free to contribute to this discussion forum. Some contributors have suggested that there should be a specific line followed by all those who contribute, however that has not been achieved.

Once Ofcom had "said NO to …" Service Charges on "… 0870" (in August 2009) the name of the site had rather lost its meaning. The only organ to emerge from extensive discussions about how to move forward was "the fair telecoms campaign", although that has been widely opposed by contributors to the forum and now has an uncertain future.



Callers to mobiles continue to indirectly subsidise the user of the mobile - how else could there be free SIMs!

Callers to 084/087/09 numbers (except 0870 for the moment) continue to indirectly subsidise those they call - whether or not "revenue sharing" takes place.

The amounts and mechanisms differ, but the principle is the same.

When something odd is happening, this also gives the call provider an opportunity to take a slice (often the larger slice) for themselves.

The latter point creates confusion about whether it is the user of the number or the call provider who is the "bad guy". This confusion is obviously exploited heavily by both parties and also by the telephone service provider to the user of the number, who may often warrant the most blame of all.

Anyone who goes looking for "bad guys" to attack in general is on a very sticky wicket, especially if they only consider the position from a single user perspective. The easy answer is always to blame Ofcom.



We are getting close to the position where, for the vast majority, calls to "ordinary" landline and mobile numbers will be free of call charges - this is already largely true for mobiles - because they will be covered by the caller's "calling plan" for a monthly fee. Calls to "special" numbers will, I hope, be charged per call, at a fixed fee or duration based rate, rather than being built into calling plans so as to muddy the issue (as in some cases at present). Calls to ordinary numbers, outside the terms of the chosen calling plan, will continue to be subject to penalty charges.

Once we get to this "happy" position, one hopes that the market will deliver a suitable range of calling plans to meet most needs, at competitive prices. Long term commitment to a calling plan that may become unsuitable as needs change is a threat to this market, as is the tying of handset leases to calling plans. The unbundled tariff will deliver greater transparency to charges for calls to "special" numbers, although it is hard to see a fully functioning market in Service Charges, except where the call is the totality of the service. There is doubt about whether Access Charges for calls to special numbers and the levels of penalty charges will be thought sufficiently significant, alongside selection of a calling plan, to be subject to serious competitive pressure, although I am relatively optimistic.


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« Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2014 at 12:28am by SilentCallsVictim »  
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Re: I've never really understood this site's premise?
Reply #17 - Feb 24th, 2014 at 1:52am
 
Let us introduce some real figures to aid our discussion. The cost of termination with 0844 and 0871 numbers is in fact quite a bit higher than to that of mobiles.

The BT Wholesale Carrier Price List indicates how much BT pays out to other terminating operators, and it therefore allows us to get a handle on the levels concerned.

So as to avoid you having to traul it I will quote the rates here. All figures are in pence per minute and are exclusive of VAT. All information is from Section B1: Telephony:
  • Geographic numbers
    Source: Part 1.02.1
    Daytime rates only. Rates vary slightly by operator, but these figures give an idea:
    • TalkTalk:
      11/05/2012 to 31/03/2013: 0.2889
      01/04/2013 to 31/01/2014: 0.3073
      01/02/2014 onwards: 0.0137
       
    • Virgin Media:
      01/04/2012 to 30/09/2012: 0.3544
      01/10/2012 to 31/03/2013: 0.2889
      01/04/2013 to 31/01/2014: 0.3073
      01/02/2014 onwards: 0.0137
       
    • Vodafone C&W:
      01/02/2010 to 30/09/2012: 0.2921
      01/10/2012 to 31/03/2013: 0.2953
      01/04/2013 to 31/01/2014: 0.3137
      01/02/2014 onwards: 0.0209

    BT's own termination charges are quoted depending on how far BT has to carry the call (the longer it does, the more it charges):
    Source: Part 1.01
    • Local Exchange:
      01/04/2013 to 31/01/2014: 0.3073
      01/02/2014 onwards: 0.0137
       
    • Single Tandem:
      01/04/2013 to 31/01/2014: 0.4228
      01/02/2014 onwards: 0.1454
       
    • Double Tandem (0-<100km):
      01/04/2013 to 31/01/2014: 0.6728
      01/02/2014 onwards: 0.3954
       
    • Double Tandem (100km - 200km):
      01/04/2013 to 31/01/2014: 0.8465
      01/02/2014 onwards: 0.5691
       
    • Double Tandem (>200km):
      01/04/2013 to 31/01/2014: 1.0862
      01/02/2014 onwards: 0.8088

     
  • 03 numbers
    Source: Part 1.02.3
    Rates are daytime only.
    Local Exchange: 0.67
    Single Tandem: 0.56
    Double Tandem Short/Medium/Long: 0.41
     
  • Mobile numbers
    Source: Part 1.02.1
    Rates applied/apply at all times
    • "3":
      01/04/2011 to 26/12/2011: 2.984
      27/12/2011 to 31/03/2012: 3.015
      01/04/2012 to 10/05/2012: 2.053
      11/05/2012 to 31/03/2013: 1.5
      01/04/2013 onwards: 0.848
       
    • O2:
      01/08/2009 to 31/03/2010: 4.2359
      01/04/2010 to 31/03/2011: 4.4276
      01/04/2011 to 31/12/2011: 2.984
      01/01/2012 to 31/03/2012: 3.015
      01/04/2012 to 10/05/2012: 2.053
      11/05/2012 to 31/03/2013: 1.5
      01/04/2013 onwards: 0.848
       
    • Orange:
      01/12/2010 to 28/02/2011: 4.43
      01/03/2011 to 31/03/2011: 4.431
      01/04/2011 to 23/12/2011: 2.984
      24/12/2011 to 31/03/2012: 3.015
      01/04/2012 to 10/05/2012: 2.053
      11/05/2012 to 31/03/2013: 1.5
      01/04/2013 onwards: 0.848
       
    • T-Mobile/EE:
      01/04/2011 to 23/12/2011: 2.984
      24/12/2011 to 31/03/2012: 3.015
      01/04/2012 to 10/05/2012: 2.053
      11/05/2012 to 31/03/2013: 1.5
      01/04/2013 onwards: 0.848
       
    • Vodafone:
      01/12/2010 to 30/04/2011: 4.4276
      01/05/2011 to 22/12/2011: 2.984
      23/12/2011 to 31/03/2012: 3.015
      01/04/2012 to 10/05/2012: 2.053
      11/05/2012 to 31/03/2013: 1.5
      01/04/2013 to 31/03/2014: 0.848
      01/04/2014 onwards: 0.845

     
  • Some 084 and 087 numbers
    Source: Part 1.02.3
    Rates from February 2014 and apply during the daytime only.
    • 0844 g11 numbers (BT retail charge is 4.084ppm inc VAT + Call Set-up fee): 4.5512
    • 0844 g6 numbers (BT retail charge is 5.105ppm inc VAT + Call Set-up fee): 4.9765
    • 0845 numbers: 0.9238
    • 0871 g7 numbers (BT retail charge: 10.211ppm inc VAT + Call Set-up fee): 9.8776

From the above it can be seen that mobile termination rates have been dropping and are now less than 1ppm (exc VAT).

The point is, therefore, that it is the call retailers (Originating Communications Providers/OCPs) who are ripping us off. We have a multi-provider system and, as such, callers are responsible for selection of their services (from their call provider) and receivers are responsible for their services (from their receiving provider).

In the past, it was the case that selection of a mobile telephone number meant that all callers' telephone providers were charged a rate much greater than to geographic/03 network destinations. Now it is the case that any charging above the rate of a geographic rate call is by and large down to the OCP retailer.


03700000000 wrote on Feb 23rd, 2014 at 11:19pm:
On that basis, and this is the important point, [no matter how the call cost comes about] how on earth can you operate a number costing more to dial than most NGNs and then complain about NGNs?

"If" we had a system where there was one sole provider of telecommunications then it would be the case that there would be a definitive call rate for any one number.

As we don't, each party has its own responsibility. The point is that the plural market means that there are essentially two markets: one in origination and another in termination. Think of everything upto or back to the termination payment or charge — these are the two "markets" I refer to.

Call retailers (OCPs) set prices based on a number of factors, including the amount they have to pay out in the form of termination payment. Call terminators set prices based on a number of factors including the termination charge.

You can't blame the customer of another telco if your OCP telco levies a premium to call them. This is exactly the same as blaming the fizzy drinks manufacturers for vending machines in airports and railway station which charge an arm and a leg for their products.
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« Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2014 at 3:52am by Dave »  
 
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Re: I've never really understood this site's premise?
Reply #18 - Feb 24th, 2014 at 11:07am
 
Good answers, both of you. I can see how my position is weakened somewhat, in pointing a finger directly at any one party anyway.

It seems that by wrestling with a 'Pig in Sh*t' everyone comes out dirty.

It is also difficult to nail down a cohesive argument. My argument would be have been infinitely stronger a few years back, but the telco market and Ofcom have introduced a moving target that is frankly a slippery fish.

In short I support the real function, intended or otehrwise to give alternative numbers to premium rate calls of this site.
Our 0870 is still used by our comapny, and before its alternative 0370 was made a ruling, we regarded, for reasons I've expained in the past,  ourselves as victims too. The winers for called and caller in our case was only the telcos.

Self-interest prevails.

I like the vending-machine analogy, but to draw a proper analogy andbe  truly accurate to what is after all a mess, is a struggle.

I freely admit to my own hypocrisy, I sit here with at least 3 SIMS being used on PAYG that i've had for 3-4 years now for occasional use. I've certainly not paid for these in adding more credit. With tiny amounts of non-expiring balance sitting onn them, someone must be paying for them, and it is clearly not me.

Again, self-interest prevails.

And your database is somethign I'll take a peek at.

Moi?



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« Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2014 at 11:24am by 03700000000 »  
 
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Re: I've never really understood this site's premise?
Reply #19 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 1:58pm
 
If you run a phone, and however you care to justify, call-costs are higher than the NGN you're complaining about, there is only one correct reply to this thread:

"Yes, you got me, I'm an ocean-going hypocrite."


Very few did, most just squirmed.
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« Last Edit: Sep 23rd, 2019 at 2:02pm by 03700000000 »  
 
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Re: I've never really understood this site's premise?
Reply #20 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 2:14pm
 

In reviving a five year old thread, be aware that call charges changed significantly some four years ago, giving much needed clarity. Calls to 080 numbers are now free in all circumstances. Calls to 084, 087 and 09 numbers are now split into two component parts. Calls to 084 and 087 numbers are never cheaper than calling 01, 02 or 03 numbers and are usually very much more expensive. Calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers are normally made as part of an inclusive calls allowance at no further charge.

Comparison of 03, 080 and 084/087 numbers is now much easier. See the plain English piece at https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/contacting-08-and-03-numbers

This now clearly shows 084, 087 and 09 numbers as "premium rate". The premium is the additional Service Charge. This website therefore helps users find inclusive 01, 02 or 03 numbers or free-to-caller 080 numbers in place of expensive 084 and 087 numbers.


Additionally, termination rates for calls to UK mobile numbers starting 071 to 075 and 077 to 079 have continued to fall such that these calls are now routinely inclusive in allowances on the same basis as calls to UK geographic numbers starting 01 and 02, and to non-geographic numbers starting 03. From 1 October 2019, the reduction in termination rates for calls to personal numbers starting 070 will allow these calls to be included in allowances on the same basis as calls to UK mobile numbers.

Ofcom is now much closer to their aim of simplifying the numbering system and call charges.
Inclusive in allowances - 01, 02, 03, 070, 071-075, 077-079 (except landlines and mobiles in CI and IoM)
Free at all times - 080, 116 (plus 101 {from 1 April 2020}, 105, 111, 112/999)
Premium rate - 084, 087, 09, 118.
This leaves minor anomalies with 055, 056 and 076.

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Re: I've never really understood this site's premise?
Reply #21 - Sep 23rd, 2019 at 2:30pm
 
Ian01 wrote on Sep 23rd, 2019 at 2:14pm:
In reviving a five year old thread, be aware that call charges changed significantly some four years ago, giving much needed clarity. Calls to 080 numbers are now free in all circumstances. Calls to 084, 087 and 09 numbers are now split into two component parts. Calls to 084 and 087 numbers are never cheaper than calling 01, 02 or 03 numbers and are usually very much more expensive. Calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers are normally made as part of an inclusive calls allowance at no further charge.

Comparison of 03, 080 and 084/087 numbers is now much easier. See the plain English piece at https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/contacting-08-and-03-numbers

This now clearly shows 084, 087 and 09 numbers as "premium rate". The premium is the additional Service Charge. This website therefore helps users find inclusive 01, 02 or 03 numbers or free-to-caller 080 numbers in place of expensive 084 and 087 numbers.


Additionally, termination rates for calls to UK mobile numbers starting 071 to 075 and 077 to 079 have continued to fall such that these calls are now routinely inclusive in allowances on the same basis as calls to UK geographic numbers starting 01 and 02, and to non-geographic numbers starting 03. From 1 October 2019, the reduction in termination rates for calls to personal numbers starting 070 will allow these calls to be included in allowances on the same basis as calls to UK mobile numbers.




In short, the wordage is your way of saying "Hypocrisy denied".
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Re: I've never really understood this site's premise?
Reply #22 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 4:32pm
 
Mobile calls these days are only more expensive when called from a BT landline or when called from BT sub brands such as Plusnet who quite disgustingly fail to include mobile numbers in their Anytime call plans.  By contrast competitors such as TalkTalk, Sky and Now Tv include mobile numbers in call bundles and of course all EE mobile plans (a company owned by BT) with inclusive calls include mobile numbers in the bundle.

BT's overcharging of its own landline customers to call mobiles simply reflects the continuing distortive market power of the BT group who know that they can get away with charging ripoff prices to call mobiles from landlines because of their incumbent legacy market position (especially strong with older customers reluctant to change away from a company they mistakenly trust).  BT Group also rips off all prisoners in UK prisons by charging them 13p per minute to mobiles and only 6p to landlines and then also quite disgracefully having got HM Prison Services to impose a prison rule saying prisoners should not call any 01/02/03 number known to divert to a mobile to save the prisoner money.  Yet there is no reason for such a rule as all prisoner phone calls are recorded and since mobile phones came in to being an 07 mobile number on a prisoner's approved caller list can currently be sitting anywhere in the world at any time (unlike former landline only days when the prison service rule had some practical effect as an extra security measure).  So just the same old scam in place as with Patientline where patients were banned from using their own mobiles on hospital wards to protect the disgusting and also clearly illegal misuse of 070 follow me numbers by Patientline in cahoots with BT Group.

But I can't see the point being made here claiming we are contributing to the whole scam with our mobile phones as these days almost everyone has a mobile phone call bundle with as many minutes of calls per month as they normally make and these bundles now always include calls to mobile numbers.  So while it is true a tiny number of older people who only use landlines for phone calls (these get less and less every year) are being vastly overcharged to call mobiles that is because BT Openreach acts uncompetitively in terminating calls from the fixed line network to the mobile network at excessive premium prices and/or because the mobile companies are also making these excess termination charges to connect landlines to their users.

In any case my £10 per month package with Giff Gaff gives me unlimited calls to 01/02/03 and 075-079 numbers plus 6Gb of data and as almost no one pays extra to call mobiles any more the point being made is simply not valid any longer in my humble opinion.  It would have been valid to some extent prior to 3 or more years ago.

I suspect the OP who started this thread is in fact highly embedded in the revenue share gravy train industry (may be he even works for one of the UK share registrars like Link Asset Servces still illegally using 0871 numbers for customers contact, despite my detailed complaint explaining why it was illegal to do so) and is feeling sour about his nice little earner being crushed by the actions of our group so has made his post here in order to have a pop at us...............
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Re: I've never really understood this site's premise?
Reply #23 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 11:36pm
 

Plusnet has an Anytime call plan with inclusive calls to UK mobile numbers and has done for a number of years:
https://www.plus.net/home-broadband/call-plans/
https://www.plus.net/help/legal/residential-phone-tariffs/

The cap on the Mobile Termination Rate is currently 0.49p per minute and has been lower than 0.6p per minute for at least the last four years. This covers calls to all mobile numbers starting 071 to 075 and 077 to 079 allocated to all providers in the UK. It does not cover mobile numbers allocated in CI or IoM.

Mobile numbers are no longer limited to the 077 to 079 number ranges, they are also to be found in the 071 to 075 number ranges. Indeed, the 074 and 075 ranges are already fully allocated and 073 is well on the way.

BT seems to be more interested in including calls to premium rate 0845 and 0870 numbers in call plans than including mobile numbers. BT Business still sells 0845 and 0870 numbers to businesses on the basis they are "free [sic] to call from BT landlines". However, BT does now have an Add-on for calling mobile numbers, and if BT follows the same path that they have for other Add-ons, this will become a standard feature at some point.

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Re: I've never really understood this site's premise?
Reply #24 - Sep 29th, 2019 at 3:37am
 
Ian01 wrote on Sep 26th, 2019 at 11:36pm:
Plusnet has an Anytime call plan with inclusive calls to UK mobile numbers and has done for a number of years:
https://www.plus.net/home-broadband/call-plans/
https://www.plus.net/help/legal/residential-phone-tariffs/


But the problem is that the Anytime UK & Mobile calls now costs £8 per month extra whereas anytime calls to other landline only used to cost as little as £4 or £5 per month extra to the best of my memory. Whereas £10 per month with GiffGaff gives me unlimited landline and mobile calls and unlimited texts and 6Gb of mobile data.  So £8 per month just for slightly better call quality on a landline than a mobile and no dropped calls is an awful lot to pay for one person.  Of course for a whole family of four or five this bolt on would constitute better value for money.

As far as I am concerned any broadband provider that also offers mobile like Plusnet ought to be including unlimited calls on the landline too for far less.  Also Plusnet are currently ripping me off for £32 for 16Mbps copper broadband just because they don't offer fibre to the premises (we don't have a fibre to the cabinet option) and I didn't want to get in to another 18 month contract when I was thinking of moving some time soon.

Its also rubbish that all these broadband providers only offer their lowest prices to people they blackmail in to repeat renewing 18 month contracts as this means anyone who downsizes and combines with another household or moves abroad loses out in a big way in penalty charges (as you only don't pay termination charges if you can move your broadband service to another address you are moving to). Shocked Angry Cry
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Re: I've never really understood this site's premise?
Reply #25 - Sep 29th, 2019 at 7:42am
 
I've been with Plusnet for a quite a while and ISTR the anytime package without mobiles used to be £6 or £7. CErtainly not been £4 or £5 for a long time if ever.

The whole business of penalising loyal customers is true across not just phone and internet but all sorts of other sectors. Energy, insurance etc.

With Plusnet I've usually been able to negotiate something close to "new customer" prices each year or so.

I'm not saying that Plusnet are good, just that they're better than most of the mass market ISPs. If I wanted top notch service I'd go to Zen or AAISP and pay rather more for the privilege.
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Re: I've never really understood this site's premise?
Reply #26 - Sep 29th, 2019 at 9:06am
 
allegro wrote on Sep 29th, 2019 at 7:42am:
I've been with Plusnet for a quite a while and ISTR the anytime package without mobiles used to be £6 or £7. CErtainly not been £4 or £5 for a long time if ever.


The cheapest Anytime call packages without mobile calls certainly were only £4 or £5 per month and currently NowTv is doing a year of copper ADSL broadband and  phone line with Anytime Calls that include mobiles and significant cashback on top for only £18 per month for a 12 month contract.

So I would say £8 per month for Anytime Calls on top of £32 per month for copper phone line and broadband with Plusnet as an old customer is pretty expensive.

The regulators should be stopping all of these ridiculous inducements to change company (all of which wastes money on marketing and promotion) on utilities while people are punished and ripped off for staying where they are.

The reason this happens is because marketing people and CEOs only get measured on new customers and not on the net customer position.  If treating old customers well to avoid losing them had as much value as acquiring new ones then all of these ridiculous inducements to change company would end.

Same thing with low cost flights and if the regulators had forced flight search engines to include an option for a hold bag or things like priority boarding or having an allocated seat then Ryanair and Easyjet would not have grown and prospered in the way that they have done.
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Re: I've never really understood this site's premise?
Reply #27 - Sep 29th, 2019 at 10:11am
 

On calls to UK mobile numbers the termination rate is just under 0.5p per minute as opposed to the termination rate for calls to landline numbers being far far less than 0.1p per minute. It is completely expected that a package that has inclusive calls to landline numbers, 03 numbers and mobile numbers would be a couple of pounds per month more expensive than one that includes only calls to landline numbers and 03 numbers.

From 1 October 2019, packages that include calls to mobile numbers will begin to also include calls to personal numbers starting 070. These will also have a termination rate of under 0.5p per minute from that date.

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Re: I've never really understood this site's premise?
Reply #28 - Sep 29th, 2019 at 10:48am
 
Ian01 wrote on Sep 29th, 2019 at 10:11am:
It is completely expected that a package that has inclusive calls to landline numbers, 03 numbers and mobile numbers would be a couple of pounds per month more expensive than one that includes only calls to landline numbers and 03 numbers.


Then how come almost every mobile package that has inclusive calls also includes mobile numbers as well as landlines at no extra cost over a package of calls only to landlines.  Or rather a long time ago some mobile operators gave unlimited minutes to landlines and a defined number of minutes to mobiles but those plans have long since vanished because the cost of calling another mobile compared to a landline from a mobile is practically nothing extra and/or because being able to only make unlimited calls to landlines is no longer useful as a marketing proposition.

Quote:
From 1 October 2019, packages that include calls to mobile numbers will begin to also include calls to personal numbers starting 070. These will also have a termination rate of under 0.5p per minute from that date.


Well fat difference that will make then given that the only people who have ever used 070 numbers are scammers like Patientline and Retainacar and they have never been used for their stated purpose of personal Follow Me Numbers (such numbers are in any case free per minute to run in 01/02 Voip form from sipgate.co.uk).

If Ofcom wasn't such a totally gutless in the pocket creation of the telecoms industry they would have simply banned 070 numbers along with all 084 and 087 numbers on a few months advance notice.
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« Last Edit: Sep 29th, 2019 at 10:54am by NGMsGhost »  

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allegro
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Re: I've never really understood this site's premise?
Reply #29 - Sep 30th, 2019 at 10:05pm
 
A few 070 numbers were used (abused?) by legitiimate companies.One that comes to mind is Davlav, where I used to see their trucks with 070 numbers on them. They seem to have dropped the 070 phone number but may still retain it for fax: http://business-east.britishfirms.co.uk/grays/davlav-portable-toilets-grays/

There may have been others but on the whole 070 numbers were a scam from start to finish. Should have been killed off by Ofcom long ago. Looking back, we were discussing the 070 problem on sayno back in 2005.
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« Last Edit: Sep 30th, 2019 at 10:10pm by allegro »  
 
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