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H.M.R.C 08 None Compliant (Read 13,424 times)
bazzerfewi
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H.M.R.C 08 None Compliant
Feb 4th, 2016 at 9:37am
 
Research suggests that there are a number of Government department’s still publishing 08 numbers and not 03 numbers as an initial contact number, these numbers are none compliant.

As from 01/07/2016 all 0845 numbers must start with the a 03 prefix when being used as an initial contact facility for companies as most members are aware.

If government departments are none compliant there is very little chance that other organizations will act on this O.F.C.O.M. ruling.
I have contacted the H.M.R.C. in this regard and I am awaiting a reply
Maybe it would be fruitful for some of the more experienced forum members to start a campaign as in the case of the very successful GP campaign in regard to changing a 08 number for a 03 number.

I will assist any member where I can but I do not have the necessary experience to head such a campaign.
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Ian01
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Re: H.M.R.C 08 None Compliant
Reply #1 - Feb 4th, 2016 at 10:27am
 

bazzerfewi wrote on Feb 4th, 2016 at 9:37am:
As from 01/07/2016 all 0845 numbers must start with the a 03 prefix when being used as an initial contact facility for companies ...

Can you point me in the direction of this new ruling from 1 July 2016 as I am not aware of it?


The only things I am aware of are:
2005 - ban on use of 087 and 09 numbers in the NHS,
2009 December - ban on the use of 084 numbers in the NHS,
2013 December 26 - Cabinet Office guidance recommending public services use 03 numbers in place of 084 and 087 numbers,
2014 June 13 - Consumer Contracts Regulations require retailers, traders and passenger transport companies to use 01, 02, 03 or 080 numbers for post-sales helplines,
2015 July 01 - all users of 084, 087 and 09 numbers are required to declare the Service Charge in close proximity to the number, everywhere it is advertised or promoted,
2015 October 26 - FCA regulations require financial services, including banks and insurance companies, to use numbers starting 01, 02, 03 or 080 for contact from existing customers.



bazzerfewi wrote on Feb 4th, 2016 at 9:37am:
I have contacted the H.M.R.C. in this regard and I am awaiting a reply

HMRC changed their 0845 and 0870 numbers over to cheaper 0345 and 0300 numbers in several batches between April and October 2013. The new numbers are listed on the HMRC website. If any current documents are still listing the old 0845 numbers, then these have been overlooked. As of 30 June 2015 all of the old HMRC 0845 numbers return the Number Unobtainable tone.

What is happening on a widespread scale is that after a change of number many other organisations continue to publish the old number as they are unaware of the change.

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« Last Edit: Feb 4th, 2016 at 7:17pm by Ian01 »  
 
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bigjohn
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Re: H.M.R.C 08 None Compliant
Reply #2 - Feb 4th, 2016 at 12:20pm
 
Have you got your years mixed up saying 1st July 2016 instead of Ist July 2015.

Even then the only requirement on Ist July 2015  was to make the cost of calling  service numbers numbers clearer.

See: http://www.ukcalling.info/whats-happening

The requirement that customers were  to pay no more than the basic rate actually came into force  in July 2014

See.https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-cuts-off-costly-calls
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« Last Edit: Feb 4th, 2016 at 12:30pm by bigjohn »  

BJ.
 
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bazzerfewi
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Re: H.M.R.C 08 None Compliant
Reply #3 - Feb 6th, 2016 at 10:05am
 
Appologies! my information is incorrect, what I was  attempting to address was the fact that there are still contact numbers within government depertments that start with the prefix 0845 and should be 0345.

On further investigation these numbers have been decommissioned but they are still present on some sites. I made British Gas and Santander aware of this some time ago, rightly they had ceased using 0845 numbers but they were still present in some instances.

I do not have the knowledge as some members do but as far as I was aware the 0845 numbers should not be used as the first point of contact in any situation as I thought it was none compliant and all initial contact numbers has to have the 01/02/03 prefix.
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bazzerfewi
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Re: H.M.R.C 08 None Compliant
Reply #4 - Feb 6th, 2016 at 10:14am
 
Examples in question, and there are plenty more.

HMRC: 0843 504 7177
Contact HMRC on 0843 504 7177 for information about and queries relating to: Tax Credits, Income Tax (incl. Self Assessments), National Insurance and Capital Gains Tax.

Sample
HMRC Nubeers published on their site
0845 010 0300
0845 300 0627
0870 280 2566

Some of these are dated late 2015

Some people are unaware and do not realise that a 0845/0871 numbers carry differant charges.
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Ian01
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Re: H.M.R.C 08 None Compliant
Reply #5 - Feb 6th, 2016 at 10:34am
 
bazzerfewi wrote on Feb 6th, 2016 at 10:14am:
Examples in question, and there are plenty more.

HMRC: 0843 504 7177
Contact HMRC on 0843 504 7177 for information about and queries relating to: Tax Credits, Income Tax (incl. Self Assessments), National Insurance and Capital Gains Tax.

Sample
HMRC Nubeers published on their site
0845 010 0300
0845 300 0627
0870 280 2566

Some of these are dated late 2015

Some people are unaware and do not realise that a 0845/0871 numbers carry differant charges.

HMRC has never used 0843 numbers.

What you have found is a Call Connection Service, otherwise known as a 'signposting' service. This is a third-party website that has set up a series of premium rate numbers for various government departments and well-known retailers. They forward the calls to the correct organisation and after the call-forwarding costs have been deducted they pocket the remainder of the Service Charge revenue.

Where these services use 087 and 09 numbers with a Service Charge of more than 7p per minute, they become Controlled Premium Rate Services and therefore subject to PhonepayPlus regulation. By using a number with a 7p per minute Service Charge, or less, they escape this regulation.

Those sites are essentially a scam and require separate action.


Compliance with the Cabinet Office guidance of December 2013 has been almost 100% and most organisations have changed their numbers and successfully updated their own websites. Some have struggled to update document templates, paperwork and email signatures, but this is now largely addressed.

Most public services refer to other services on their websites. For example most local authorities mention various numbers for HMRC, DWP, local police, Floodline, etc. Many of these third-party mentions are outdated and it will take many years for this information to be updated.

The advice has to be to treat all mentions of 084 or 087 numbers, especially on old paperwork and on third-party websites, as being out of date and to always check the official website of the organisation that you want to call to find their current numbers. These will usually be 01, 02, 03 or 080 numbers.

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« Last Edit: Feb 6th, 2016 at 10:38am by Ian01 »  
 
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CJT-80
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Re: H.M.R.C 08 None Compliant
Reply #6 - Feb 6th, 2016 at 9:24pm
 
Off-Topic replies have been moved to this Topic.
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Regards,

CJT-80

Any comments made are my own and are not those of SayNoTo0870.com
 
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CJT-80
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Re: H.M.R.C 08 None Compliant
Reply #7 - Feb 6th, 2016 at 9:27pm
 
Off-Topic replies have been moved to this Topic.

Both posts related to Damart and have been moved there instead.
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« Last Edit: Feb 6th, 2016 at 9:29pm by CJT-80 »  

Regards,

CJT-80

Any comments made are my own and are not those of SayNoTo0870.com
 
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derrick
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Re: H.M.R.C 08 None Compliant
Reply #8 - Feb 7th, 2016 at 9:55am
 
Ian01 wrote on Feb 6th, 2016 at 10:34am:
Most public services refer to other services on their websites. For example most local authorities mention various numbers for HMRC, DWP, local police, Floodline, etc. Many of these third-party mentions are outdated and it will take many years for this information to be updated.



Well  it shouldn,t, these are legal requirements, can you imagine if a speed limit was changed and motorists ignored it for several years, do you think the could get away with it by saying the same?

.
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Ian01
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Re: H.M.R.C 08 None Compliant
Reply #9 - Feb 7th, 2016 at 10:36am
 

Once published, most stuff is never touched again. Indeed, there are thousands of websites still promoting 071, 081, 0171 and 0181 telephone numbers for businesses in London even though those area codes haven't been used for twenty or fifteen years - and a similar situation exists for all other locations and number types.

If you need the telephone number for an organisation, the first advice has to be 'Look on the official website of the organisation that you want to call. Look for a number starting 01, 02, 03 or 080. Treat all paperwork and third-party websites as being outdated, especially those that mention only 084 and 087 numbers.'

If that initial look is unsuccessful, perhaps only 084 or 087 numbers are listed, then try saynoto0870 for an alternative number listing.

Where outdated numbers are listed, organisations need to be made aware that the number has changed. More than a hundred thousand places list the old 0845 number for Samaritans. Most of those will never be updated.

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bazzerfewi
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Re: H.M.R.C 08 None Compliant
Reply #10 - Feb 7th, 2016 at 4:02pm
 
If OFCOM policed these numbers correctly and fined companies or missuse of data I would like to bet that companies would ensure that the correct procedure was followed.

As is the case with so much information on the net the penalities are not in place and companies just ignore legislation.
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« Last Edit: Feb 7th, 2016 at 4:03pm by bazzerfewi »  
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Ian01
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Re: H.M.R.C 08 None Compliant
Reply #11 - Feb 7th, 2016 at 11:42pm
 

Ofcom regulates the providers of numbers not the users.

Users are regulated by sector regulators such as BIS, FCA, etc. They have regulations on the type of numbers that can be used for certain purposes. There are no regulations that compel third-parties to amend websites.

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bazzerfewi
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Re: H.M.R.C 08 None Compliant
Reply #12 - Feb 8th, 2016 at 2:35am
 
Oh well, seems like we'll have to just put up with it then and hope they disappear as people stop searching for the specific number.
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Re: H.M.R.C 08 None Compliant
Reply #13 - Feb 8th, 2016 at 9:27am
 
Ian01 wrote on Feb 7th, 2016 at 10:36am:
More than a hundred thousand places list the old 0845 number for
*
Samaritans.

*
Which has been a free call on 116123 for more than 6½ years.
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« Last Edit: Feb 8th, 2016 at 10:14am by sergeant121 »  

How can you tell when a lawyer's lying?  His (or her) lips move.
 
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Ian01
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Re: H.M.R.C 08 None Compliant
Reply #14 - Feb 8th, 2016 at 9:37am
 
sergeant121 wrote on Feb 8th, 2016 at 9:27am:
Ian01 wrote on Feb 7th, 2016 at 10:36am:
More than a hundred thousand places list the old 0845 number for
*
Samaritans.

*
Which has been a free call on 116123 for some time.

Yes, the free number 116123 was allocated to Samaritans by Ofcom in 2009 and has been operational 24/7 since then. Samaritans continued to promote the 0845 number as their main contact point, and since 1 July 2015 have had to declare the premium Service Charge next to the number.

Samaritans in Ireland has promoted their 116123 number for several years, but Samaritans UK didn't start promoting 116123 until 22 September 2015. The change of number wasn't covered by any newspapers and very few people are aware of it. Indeed, many of the websites for local branches of Samaritans still mention the  premium rate 0845 number and do not mention 116123.

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