Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
SAYNOTO0870.COM

<---- Back to main website

 
Home Help Search Login Register

Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Art fund (Read 11,244 times)
allegro
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 335
Art fund
Jul 29th, 2016 at 12:00pm
 
On their website the Art fund uses an 0844 number for "Supporter and customer services" and correctly declares the cost. https://www.artfund.org/about-us/contact-us I thought the use of 0844 numbers for post sale communication was now outlawed.

I'm an Artfund member and have just received a letter which includes "If you have any queries......." with an 0844 number. No mention of charges. Is a declaration of charges required in a private communication as against a public website, advertisement etc?

I am aware that the Sayno database has alternative contact numbers. I suspect that the 0844 number is for an outsourcing company that handles membership and other admin for the Art Fund.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Ian01
Supreme Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 767
Re: Art fund
Reply #1 - Jul 29th, 2016 at 12:08pm
 

A non-exhaustive list of where the call costs must be declared can be found here:
http://ask.ofcom.org.uk/help/telephone/businesscalling

If you have paid for membership, you have entered into a contract and call costs are covered by Regulation 41:
http://legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/41/made
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jul 29th, 2016 at 12:14pm by Ian01 »  
 
IP Logged
 
allegro
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 335
Re: Art fund
Reply #2 - Aug 6th, 2016 at 7:35am
 
I wrote to the Art Fund and received this reply:


========================================

Dear Mr *********

Thank you for your email and feedback regarding our 0844 telephone number.

I can advise that 0844 is a fix rate non geographic number, which means that the caller always pays the fixed call price of up to 7p per minute when calling us from anywhere in the UK.  This was the reason why this number was chosen 5 years ago, as it would mean that regardless of where our members live, they could get in touch with us at a fixed price.

Given the changes in the telephone services industry (such as free minutes), we are currently looking into migrating to an 03 line, as this is more appropriate for a charity like the Art Fund and also most cost efficient for our supporters.

You can always give us a call on our main information line 020 7225 4800 if you have any queries.

I would like to thank you for taking the time to write to us about this matter. Please do not hesitate to contact us if we can be of further assistance.

Kind regards

************
Supporter Services Assistant

Art Fund_
2 Granary Square
London N1C 4BH
www.artfund.org

National Art Collections Fund. A charity registered in England and Wales 209174 and in Scotland SC038331. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended only for the use of the recipient. If you have received this email in error please notify its sender. Please print this email only if required.



-----Original Message-----
From: ******************************
Sent: 30 July 2016 11:41
To: members <members@artfund.org>
Subject: Illegal use of 0844 numbers

Dear Sirs

I have recently received a letter from the Art Fund regarding my Art Pass. In that letter you say: "If you have any queries at all about your Art Pass..... please get in touch....on 0844 415 4100..."

Use of a such a (premium rate) number for these purposes has been illegal in the UK since 2013. Please see "The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013"

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/41/made

This requires you to use basic rate phone numbers for such purposes.
Such numbers begin with 01, 02 or 03. Free (0800) numbers are also allowed.

Your use of the same 0844 number on your website is also of dubious legality. https://www.artfund.org/about-us/contact-us Since the calling costs are correctly declared it is legal (if poor practice) for initial contact but not for subsequent contact by members.

Please ensure that in future that you comply with the relevant legislation.

Regards

**************
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
allegro
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 335
Re: Art fund
Reply #3 - Aug 6th, 2016 at 7:37am
 
Further exchange of messages. At least they are planning to move to an 03 number.

==============================

Dear Mr *******

Thank you very much for your reply. We have certainly noted your comments regarding this.

We display our King's Cross office address, 02 phone number and members email address on our website: https://www.artfund.org/about-us/contact-us

These contact details are also included in the Art Quarterly. The members email address is included on membership materials, such as the Art Guide. You can always drop us an email and we can give you a call back for any query you have.

I can confirm that when our 0844 number was set up in 2010, this was because it was the best option available at that time. The reason this number is on the letter you have received is that there is only space for the one number, and that is the direct line for our Supporter Services Team. We cannot put our 02 number for the contact on this letter, as we do not have the full capacity of Supporter Services at that number.

Since the number was set up we have migrated our external Supporter Services to an another location, and we now have the possibility to migrate to an 03 number for Supporter Services. This change will be completed by the end of this year. We have several materials that need to be replaced over the coming months such as membership welcome packs, and letters, and we would like to replace them with the new 03 number.

Kind regards

*********
Supporter Services Assistant

Art Fund_
2 Granary Square
London N1C 4BH
www.artfund.org

National Art Collections Fund. A charity registered in England and Wales 209174 and in Scotland SC038331. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended only for the use of the recipient. If you have received this email in error please notify its sender. Please print this email only if required.




-----Original Message-----
From:********************
Sent: 02 August 2016 10:12
To: members <members@artfund.org>
Subject: Re: Illegal use of 0844 numbers

Dear Ms *********

I'm afraid you are factually incorrect in your reply. A caller to your
0844 number pays 7p per minute PLUS an access charge to their telephone supplier which can be anything up to 50p per minute and is never less than 10p per minute. Here is some useful information:

http://www.fairtelecoms.org.uk/uk-calling-clear-call-rates.html

By contrast 03 numbers are charged at the same rate as 01 and 02 numbers. For most callers they are included in their call plans and have been for more than 5 years. There hasn't been any distinction between "local" and "national" calls for many years so your argument  about "anywhere in the UK" has no validity.

Your use of an 0844 number has been illegal for at least a year and immoral at any time. It also is bad for the image of the Art Fund to be seen to be using such a number. At best you make a penny or two per minute on each call while callers pay a substantial amount to call you.
There have been many instances of organisations who use 0844 (also 0845, 0870, 0871) numbers getting bad publicity in the national press. I'm sure the Art Fund wouldn't welcome this. An example:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2385721/Attack-rip-0844-GP-phone-numbers...

There is a simple migration route from 0844 numbers to 0344 numbers. I urge you to do this in the very near future. While this article refers mainly to GPs it is applicable to anyone who uses 0844 numbers:

http://nhspatient.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/gp-surgeries-using-0844-or-0845.html

Alternative simply scrap your 0844 number and use your 020 numbers for all contact. As a user of http://www.saynoto0870.com/ I'm well aware of finding alternatives to 0844 etc numbers but many people are not aware of this and will incur unnecessary expense when contacting the Art Fund.

Regards

*************
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Ian01
Supreme Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 767
Re: Art fund
Reply #4 - Aug 6th, 2016 at 8:45am
 

The excuse of 'fixed rate from anywhere in the UK' is a line that will have been fed to them by their telecoms company as justification for using an 0844 number - and it is true.

Their telecoms company won't however have mentioned the fact that distinct local rate and national rate pricing for calls to 01 and 02 numbers ended in 2004 at the point of introduction of inclusive call plans.

In 2010, their telecoms provider would have told them:
01, 02, 03 - up to 9p/min from a BT landline.
0844 - up to 5p/min from a BT landline.
and used this to justify the use of an 0844 number.

The reality of what most people actually paid (in 2010) would have been:
01, 02, 03 - inclusive in allowances on landlines and mobiles.
0844 - up to 12p/min from landlines or up to 41p/min from mobiles.

At least, they have now picked up on the idea of inclusive call plans and recognise their number is not included in such schemes. This fact should have been recognised back in 2010, before the introduction of the 0844 number.

Back to top
« Last Edit: Aug 6th, 2016 at 2:45pm by Ian01 »  
 
IP Logged
 
allegro
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 335
Re: Art fund
Reply #5 - Aug 7th, 2016 at 7:37am
 
Although the difference between local and national calls was supposed to end in 2004 I think a few companies kept some tariffs with local/national pricing after that. I can't provide definite evidence but I recall being surprised that a friend was on such a tariff, possibly from Talktalk, after then.

BT Basic (the special social tariff for people on certain benefits) has also had anomalies in the past but now seems to have been rationalised: http://www.btplc.com/inclusion/ProductsAndServices/BTBasic/index.htm
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
CJT-80
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 1,713
Manchester
Gender: male
Re: Art fund
Reply #6 - Aug 7th, 2016 at 10:31pm
 
allegro wrote on Aug 6th, 2016 at 7:37am:
Since the number was set up we have migrated our external Supporter Services to an another location, and we now have the possibility to migrate to an 03 number for Supporter Services. This change will be completed by the end of this year. We have several materials that need to be replaced over the coming months such as membership welcome packs, and letters, and we would like to replace them with the new 03 number.


As has been highlighted here numerous times, they can "migrate" their existing 0844 number to an 0344 number... which would seem the most logical solution, along with having a free of charge "this number has changed" message...

If they are that inclined to make the changes it would be hoped they have already started to get the ball rolling.

Well done for getting a response from them and continued dialogue.  Smiley
Back to top
 

Regards,

CJT-80

Any comments made are my own and are not those of SayNoTo0870.com
 
IP Logged
 
allegro
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 335
Re: Art fund
Reply #7 - Dec 14th, 2016 at 12:49pm
 
Still delinquent. Their 2017 guide, issued recently still gives 0844 numbers. I will write to them again.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
(Moderators: Dave, bbb_uk, CJT-80, Forum Admin, DaveM)

Website and Content © 1999-2024 SAYNOTO0870.COM. All Rights Reserved.
Written permission is required to duplicate any of the content within this site.

WARNING: This is an open forum, posts are NOT endorsed by SAYNOTO0870.COM,
please exercise due caution when acting on any info from here.


SAYNOTO0870.COM » Powered by YaBB 2.5.2!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2024. All Rights Reserved.


Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge