SilentCallsVictim wrote on Aug 11^th, 2009 at 4:54pm:

I fail to see the point of your out of context juxtapposition of these two different quotes.

Alternative LO-Call 118 service
If my information is correct I think I have found a truly alternative Lo-Call 118 service, I just need clarification as I don’t think Ofcom information is always correct because I have had different answers to the same question, it depends who you talk to.
Does the following call pattern contravene any telecom legislation, at present the RingLocal plan will go something like this
Call comes in on 0345 X118 118 (Lo-Call at this stage) FROM A MOBILE 07 NUMBER
Live operator sources number from local Trade database (0345 1234567)
Call Divert comes into play the RingLocal operator diverts caller to (0345 12344567) Trades mans number

If my information is correct because there hasn’t been a break in the call and “Call divert” has been used the call charge should be the same Lo-Call tariff for the duration of the call.

Example – Caller dials from Mobile phone 07 Number or any 01/02 number
Number dialled 0345 X 118 118
Live operator picks up the call – Caller requires trades person
Operator sources the trades persons number 0345 56445463 (Example)
Operator uses call divert and diverts the call to 0345 56445463 (Example Number)
Trades person picks up the phone and answers the call – Customer and trades person are connected

If this is doable it could provide a lo-call 118 alternative

Baz

bazzerfewi wrote on Aug 15^th, 2009 at 8:30am:

The charge rate cannot be changed by a third party mid-call. Thus, the call will be billed to the caller as per a 0345 number, regardless of where the RingLocal operator forwards it to.

bazzerfewi wrote on Aug 15^th, 2009 at 8:30am:

Baz

The quoted phrase reads like a question asking for replies.

As you claim to have already incurred expenses and secured sponsorship for the "RingLocal" service, I must express surprise that you appeal to this forum for legal advice. This suggests you may be ill prepared for battle with the major 118 providers and their teams of lawyers.

I am astonished that Ofcom has apparently refused to provide you with written confirmation of the regulatory requirements relating to the provision of Directory Enquiry services in response to your formal Notification. Whilst we commonly complain about its failure to deal properly with the interests of consumers and citizens, it also has an implied duty to treat providers of telecommunications services, such as yourself, fairly.

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You should have been made aware that under the terms of the General Conditions you are required to adhere to the National Telephone Numbering Plan. This states that 034 numbers are used for "migrating numbers from matching 084 numbers". At one time long ago 0845 numbers offered national calls at the "local rate". Apart from on a few legacy tariffs, this connection no longer applies. Furthermore, for the vast majority of residential telephone subscribers there is no longer a distinct "local rate".

As many migrating numbers will have been in place for some time, one can perhaps understand how the mistaken and misleading idea that 0345 has some connection with a local rate charge for a national call has arisen.

0345 is available for migrating any revenue sharing 0845 number that you are currently operating. If you have however not yet launched the service and promoted the 0845 number, you may want to consider use of a new 033 number.

You must understand that no existing 03 number range is intended to convey the idea of being "local". All those presently in use are described as being "UK-wide Numbers at a geographic rate".

(Should distinct rates for local calls re-emerge as a general feature of telephone charges at some future time, there are unused 03 ranges which could be added to support a facility for UK-wide calls to be charged at the “local rate”. Just for the anoraks - Given the present direction of travel with the NTS condition, it is inconceivable that an alternative range to offer the same facility, but with revenue sharing built in, i.e. a resurrection of 0845 as it was, could occur.)

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If, so close to the launch of your service (you previously suggested that a possible three month delay was material), you are still wondering about what type of number to use, I would offer the following advice.

For a service focussed on one particular geographic area the obvious option is a local number. You should have found that the redirection features you need can be provided on a geographic number, although it is understood this may incur greater cost than when on a non-geographic number. You may have to consider whether this is worthwhile to provide the necessary “local” identity. There will be a few local callers for whom a local geographic number is cheaper to call than a “UK-wide” 03 number.

For a nationally promoted service that serves many localities separately, a UK-wide number would be ideal. Such numbers are commonly associated with caller location detection facilities (these do not include recognition of the caller’s full number and can extend to cover calls from mobile cells) to enable the call to be routed to the appropriate point.

If you can make the service work purely through sponsorship and advertising, rather than imposing costs on service users, then a service extending beyond a single locality would be best on a 03 or 080 number. The latter would be more expensive to run and more expensive to call for most mobile callers, although cheaper to call for all landline callers. You would however probably want to avoid 080, so as to sustain your claim that those who use it (e.g. “The Number”) are engaged in a rip-off.

(Noting Derrick’s reply to you, I offer some further thoughts, covering some wider issues, in a separate posting.)

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Aug 15^th, 2009 at 4:51pm:



SilentCallsVictim...of course he does not know what he is doing if he did he would not be here asking all these questions.

I have said before on the other thread, he is well out of his depth, and has not got a clue on what he is doing. I have said on the other thread he is making false statements on his web site and for that reason I hope 3i and their partners will sue. He says 'bring them on'. There lies the arrogance of the man.

sherbert wrote on Aug 15^th, 2009 at 6:14pm:

sherbert, the thread to which I gather you refer is the one on the SayNoTo118800.co.uk site. bazzerfewi has never posted on that thread, so all I can assume is that you are getting confused with this Baz and the other one claiming to be called Barry. 

I have sent a PM to bazzerfewi apologising