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London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number (Read 379,525 times)
Keith
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #120 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 8:13pm
 
Pleased with the Mail article but annoyed re the comment that they didn't have the funds to run a free line.

Well what about a Geographic number then? Surely there is no cost to them for that.

No the police choose to run a revenue generating number instead. That is a deliberate decision. They could have gone for a geographic number if they didn't have the funds and even if contractually bound by C&W I can't see breaking the contract would have been an issue.  C&W wouldn't have sued under the circumstances - can you imagine the negative publicity if they did.

As far as I'm concerned the blame lies with the police and OFCOM alone. The police made the decision to go for an 0870 contract with C&W. They didn't have to. And OFCOM are just incompetent. I read their comment in the Mail with disbelief. It bore no resemblence to what I was told on the phone when I called them to complain (see earlier posting).

As far as I'm concerned C&W offered a service that the police took up. It's not C&W fault that it is completely inappropriate for this and many other circumstances. It is OFCOM's fault that it is allowed and it is the police's fault that they entered in to such an inapproriate contact.

As far as I can see there is a lot of backside covering here by both the police and OFCOM.

Surely it can't be difficult to regulate this. Surely no public body should be allowed to use an 0870 number under any circumstances. 0845 numbers should only be allowed by public bodies if accompanied by a cost disclosure and a geographic number alternative. Commercial organisations should be allowed to use 0845/0870, but only we a cost disclosure (and ideally a geographic alternative).

I'm new to these postings so I'm sure you will all tell me if I have this all wrong!
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #121 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 8:33pm
 
Quote:
I'm new to these postings so I'm sure you will all tell me if I have this all wrong!


I am very old to posting here but I am happy to tell you that you have it almost totally right and you appear to be one of the most perceptive people to have posted on the subject in this forum.  The only guilty people you have possibly missed out are Charles Clarke (Home Secretary), Hazel Blears (Police Minister) and Tessa Jowell (Culture Minister).

Clarke and Blears had the power to tell the Police they must use a geographic and/or 0800 phone number instead of which they have pressurised the Police to use 0870 by providing inadequate funding for this project.  Tessa Jowell is also guilty as a very long running and experienced culture secretary responsible for OFTEL and now Ofcom who has failed to act to force them to regulate to make 084/7x NTS revenue share illegal.  Jowell has also failed to ask Ofcom to propose regulations to make it illegal for mobile phone companies to grotesquely overcharge for 0845 and 0870 phone calls.

If you want to know what Ofcom is really like and just how much they are in bed with the Telecoms industry they are supposed to regulate then try reading some of these recent Ofcom NTS Focus Group Notes where they have been asking their telecom industry crony chums how they would like to be regulated! Roll Eyes Shocked

The comments from some of the lesser known Ofcom names at these meetings are especially illuminating.  It is interesting that Mr Matt Peacock, who likes us to believe that Ofcom is the consumer's friend and Ofcom's CEO, Stephen Carter, never shows their face at such events.  Also notable by his absence is the Ofcom Policy Guru, Mr Kip Meek.

See www.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/groups/nts_focus/ to see just how bad things really are and just why it is that Ofcom talks a lot but never actually acts on this matter.

Particularly mystifying is that none of the major call centre operators are allowed to attend these so called "focus groups" and only the telcos attend.  This seems to show only too clearly exactly who are Ofcom's real masters. Shocked
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« Last Edit: Jul 10th, 2005 at 8:37pm by N/A »  
 
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idb
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #122 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 8:40pm
 
I have sent this complaint earlier. I doubt whether the intended recipients will actually see the complaint however there will be a record of this in case they ever decide to do this again.

>>>

To Phillip Webb, PITO/CEO
To Stephen Carter, Ofcom/CEO
To Kip Meek, Ofcom/Competition Partner
To Geoff Brighton, Ofcom/NTS
To Matt Peacock, Ofcom/Communications
To Ailsa Beaton, Director of Information, Metropolitan Police

I trust that this morning, you will spare more than a moment's thought for
the efforts of emergency workers who have performed an outstanding job in
the aftermath of the London bombings last week and contrast these efforts
with your own activities in establishing a casualty bureau contact facility
which used an 0870 revenue generating telephone number. Such a number has
met with widespread condemnation this weekend and deservedly so. As well as
preventing many callers from overseas being able to contact the bureau, the
use of a number costing almost eight pence per minute from landlines and
significantly more from cellular phones and call boxes is both irresponsible
and distasteful, particularly when around four pence per minute is passed to
a commercial organization for it to profit from this tragedy.

I trust that, whilst you sit in your comfortable air-conditioned offices
this morning, you will also consider the friends and relatives that are
still seeking information about missing or injured persons being forced to
call a number that is charging up to fifty pence per minute from some
cellular networks and contrast this with your inability to provide a free
telephone number for UK callers and a geographic number for international
callers together with your incompetence in removing these despicable
numbers from the UK numbering system as they provide, with very few
exceptions, no tangible benefit to the UK telephone user.

Whilst PITO has to take responsibility for this specific shameful incident,
the wider blame for the rotten NTS regime lies firmly with Ofcom and its
ineffectiveness in providing both regulatory activity and protection of the
public. I note that in the UK media this weekend, Ofcom has attempted to
absolve itself from any responsibility for the use of what are, in all but
name, premium rate numbers (the description Ofcom's Matt Peacock gave for
0870 on a BBC radio programme) as an emergency contact and, despite many
complaints from the public, despite overwhelming condemnation of the NTS
regime from respondents to the recent Ofcom consultation documents, and
because of constant dithering and failure to act on continued abuses of
these rip-off numbers, it has failed to take any action to protect the
public.

Perhaps now, Ofcom will finally realize that the use of NTS by government
agencies, non-profit organizations and commercial bodies that can reasonably
expect to receive international inbound calls is unacceptable. As a British
citizen who is resident overseas, I am sick and tired from being denied
access to essential government services that use 0870, 0845 and 0844
telephone numbers. I am sick and tired of having to make Freedom of
Information requests to the DVLA, the Home Office, the Immigration and
Nationality Directorate, the Ministry of Defence and numerous other agencies
simply to obtain a number that I can actually call from the United States.
Ofcom has already provided a response to my FOI request that outlines the
difficulty for terminating international calls to 0870 numbers. As Ofcom is
clearly aware of this problem, and the COI has published guidance that is
seemingly ignored by agencies such as the Home Office, the continuing lack
of any action by the UK regulator demonstrates gross incompetence and a lack
of 'joined-up' government.

The whole NTS regime, particularly the 0870 and 0871 numbering schemes, is
shrouded in deceit as shown by Ofcom's redaction of the key financial
figures in its recent NTS consultations and action must now be taken to
prevent these numbering systems from ever being used again for any such
similar tragedy.

Foresight is a quality that senior civil servants should be fully familiar
with. The use of a premium rate (in all but name) telephone number for an
emergency center demonstrates complete cluelessness and a lack of any
such foresight. Those involved with this decision should, in my opinion,
consider their own positions - such a failure, given that there would have
been many months of planning for such an emergency, is inexcusable.

Finally, I hope that both PITO and Ofcom will find the time to issue an
apology for the abject failure to plan for this event and also to ensure
that the significant revenue generated from the 0870 number is used to aid
the victims of the explosions. I will be making a copy of this letter
available to my Member of Parliament in the United Kingdom.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #123 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 9:11pm
 
Excellent letter IDB but you should have included the following in your circulation list:-

tessa.jowell@culture.gov.uk  Culture Minister

charles.clarke@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk  Home Secretary

john.gieve@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk - Permanent Secretary of Home Office (a top civil servant who has quite deliberately pushed the use of 0870 as New Labour stealth tax)

alan.gemmell@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk  Perm Sec's Assistant

hazel.blears@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk Police Minister

stephen.rimmer@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk Home Office expert Rep on Pico board

I should have thought commissioner@met.police.uk could also have been included in your list of recipients.
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idb
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #124 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 9:15pm
 
I deliberately omitted the government ministers and senior civil servants as I will be asking my MP to pursue this with those individuals and departments. Jowell and Clarke are not going to read, let alone respond to most public complaints as they are too far removed from the people they are supposed to answer to. My MP on the other hand does have access to these people and he is best placed to deal with ministerial responsibility or the lack of it.
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As from November 21, 2013, I no longer participate in the forum and am unable to receive private messages.
 
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Dave
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #125 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 9:22pm
 
I have emailed Panorama, giving them the link to this thread.

I think that it would be a good idea to contact Channel 4's Dispatches programme aswell.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #126 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 9:24pm
 
Quote:
Jowell and Clarke are not going to read, let alone respond to most public complaints as they are too far removed from the people they are supposed to answer to.


I agree with you regarding Charles Clarke.

Jowell however appears to be conscientious.  I have received email read receipts at various odd hours of the day and night from her parliamentary email account.

My problem with asking my MP to pursue this for me is that I know him almost too well so it could be slightly embarassing.  Also he seems more obsessd with anything to do with child abuse than with this particular issue.

Even if the civil servants read it your email to Clarke or whoever still has an impact.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #127 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 9:26pm
 
Quote:
I have emailed Panorama, giving them the link to this thread.

I think that it would be a good idea to contact Channel 4's Dispatches programme aswell.


Good idea about Dispatches.  I also emailed Panorama the link to the Mail on Sunday article so they get the idea that this is a matter that is now being taken seriously by the media.
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Dave
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #128 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 9:32pm
 
This link on the other page no goes to an article "Why we must not be rushed into pulling out of Iraq"  ???

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/newscomment.html?in_article_...
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« Last Edit: Jul 10th, 2005 at 9:33pm by Dave »  
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #129 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 9:32pm
 
This is another worthwhile address at Ofcom to include in any email:-

consumerpanel@ofcom.org.uk

Those of you who keep up with such things will realise that the Ofcom Consumer Panel was one of Ofcom's sternest critics over Ofcom's original NTS Options for the Future so called consultative document.
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« Last Edit: Jul 10th, 2005 at 9:40pm by N/A »  
 
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juby
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #130 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 9:34pm
 
Just announced on ITV, "It is an expensive premium rate number"
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WWW  
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #131 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 9:39pm
 
Quote:
Just announced on ITV, "It is an expensive premium rate number"


Where are Mr Philipp Webb and Mr Chris Earnshaw of Pito I wonder?  They didn't seem to be in their office on Friday and they don't read their emails at the weekend.

Perhaps they are both too busy quaffing the Chianti in their Tuscan villas

Looks like the solids are really beginning to hit the fan for these gentlemen.  As and when they get back to their offices of course Roll Eyes
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #132 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 9:41pm
 
Quote:
This link on the other page no goes to an article "Why we must not be rushed into pulling out of Iraq"  ???

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/newscomment.html?in_article_...

This link seems to work:-

www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=402137&in_page_id=2
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dorf
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I hate Qs on Premium NGNs

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #133 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 9:42pm
 
All excellent points of course; but although clearly the concentration in this thread is about the depth of total depravity in using a 0870 Premium number to defraud suffering relatives and friends of the injured, dying and deceased, please do not forget that this generic scam actually concerns a whole plethora of NGNs, which are all being abused in the same way.

The great danger in concentrating on 0870 and 0845 only in complaints and petitions is that Ofcom and the scammers will just move the scam to other NGNs (as they have done with GP's surgery abuses of 0870, just moving it to 0844). Please remember that all NGNs are ripe for the same identical rip-off, with call queuing being at the base of the maximisation of revenue generation (because it is allowed with all NGNs except 09) and 07 PNS having the very worst potential for these abuses because of the relatively high charge rates allowed, with queuing.

The emphasis therefore must be on the complete future prohibition of the abuses with all NGNs other than 09 being used as Premium numbers. That is now the only solution which will work to end the potential for all of these abuses, and to ensure that the relatives and friends of victims of any future similar disaster will not be exploited in the same way.
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Ofcom are completely ineffectual
 
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Dave
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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #134 - Jul 10th, 2005 at 10:04pm
 
I've just emailed Channel 4 News aswell.
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