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HM Government and its millions (Read 12,086 times)
idb
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HM Government and its millions
Jul 16th, 2005 at 1:26am
 
A follow up from David Derbyshire. Good to see he has more column inches this time. A good article in my opinion.

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/16/nhelp16.xml&sShe...

>>>

Government agencies are making millions of pounds every year by encouraging the public to call expensive 0870 helplines, a Daily Telegraph investigation has found.

There has been a proliferation in income-generating numbers, prompting accusations that they are being used as a stealth tax.

[...]

The Driving Standards Agency made £1.5 million last year from its 0870 number, while the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency in Swansea generated £1.3 million.

The Home Office uses them for its main inquiry line as well as the Passport Agency, the Criminal Records Bureau and Work Permits UK.

[...]

Last year, the Government's communication division, the Central Office of Information, urged departments not to use 0870 numbers. Their cost "can act as a barrier to communicating information that the citizen should have access to as a right", it said.

Lord Tyler said: "They are effectively premium rate numbers. It is a scandal that they have ignored this advice.

[...]
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omy
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Re: HM Government and its millions
Reply #1 - Jul 16th, 2005 at 7:01am
 
It's good news that an article like this has appeared - looks like the way we should go is to attack the 'Government' use of 0870 and in the process this publicity will begin to enter the minds of everyone else that if the use of 0870 is banned by government on their lines then other companies must be robbing them as well.
Any publicity is good publicity in this case, I reckon.
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« Last Edit: Jul 16th, 2005 at 7:02am by omy »  
 
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cranhill
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Re: HM Government and its millions
Reply #2 - Jul 16th, 2005 at 8:16am
 
Hi, Yes abother good article about 0870 numbers in The Telegraph , it's a pity that it was not in the The Sun or Mirror where it would have had a bigger impact. At least you get  a free DVD as well today.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: HM Government and its millions
Reply #3 - Jul 16th, 2005 at 10:24am
 
BT said: "We would like these numbers swept away.", David Derbyshire

So why did BT invent them, persuade the gutless non consumer oriented morons ot OFTEL to allow them and then spend so many years converting  most major business call centres over to using them.

Me thinks that man from BT speaks with forked tongue!

Derbyshire has still missed the main point of the outrageous call costs from most mobile phones and BT Payphones and not being able to call these numbers either at all or only at massive premiums from overseas.  Also he misses the point about BT Options 3 and other inclusive calling plans and ending up with another 50 quid on your quartely phone bill as a result.

I'm not sure why idb started a new thread for this.  He should have made his post about the new article in this thread.
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bbb_uk
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Re: HM Government and its millions
Reply #4 - Jul 16th, 2005 at 11:14am
 
Quote:
...I'm not sure why idb started a new thread for this...
I'm guessing here but probably because David Derbyshire's article was about the increasing use of 0870 by the government whereas the other thread is generally specific to London bombing helpline.

I agree that David's article didn't address everything but it was better than the last article and I plan on including a link to his article when I reply to Stephen Rimmer's letter as mentioned here (post 294).
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« Last Edit: Jul 16th, 2005 at 11:15am by bbb_uk »  
 
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juby
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Re: HM Government and its millions
Reply #5 - Jul 16th, 2005 at 11:36am
 
The article does raise that old chestnut:

"We definately do not receive any income from using these numbers"

And in the next breath they tell you that the profit goes to keeping costs down.

The first is a lie and the second proves it.

juby
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« Last Edit: Jul 16th, 2005 at 1:38pm by juby »  
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: HM Government and its millions
Reply #6 - Jul 16th, 2005 at 1:22pm
 
Quote:
The first is lie and the second proves it.

I was told by a lady working for the chairman of CW, who called me back last Monday, that CW specifically recommended the use of an 0800 number for this purpose but that Pito refused to use it because they would have had to pay for CW's casualty bureau call forwarding service, instead of getting it free of charge.

Ipso facto it follows logically that Pito and the Met are receiving a hidden revenue transfer from callers that is being used to rebate charges they should actually be paying to C&W for the operation of the casualty bureau NTS central call forwarding system.

Unfortunately I do not have a recording of this conversation with the lady at CW and it is not on email.

All these government agencies lie by claiming they do not profit from the call revenue stream but in reality the customer is paying because these agencies would otherwise have been charge a fee by the telcos for running this call forwarding bureau service.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: HM Government and its millions
Reply #7 - Jul 16th, 2005 at 1:32pm
 
You will note that back on 13th April the Permanent Secretary of the Home Office (John Gieve - see below email) claimed that Katie Kerr, the Department's Customer Communication Manager, was reviewing the matter yet nothing had been done by the time of the bombings in July.  Yet this was by then months after the new COI guidance on 0870 use.

Senior staff at the BBC have confirmed to me that under the terms of their contract with Cable & Wireless a new 0800 number for a specific call centre activity can be set up by CW in less than an hour.

It seems strange that Mr Rimmer, Mr Gieve, Ms Kerr and/or Miss Blears at the Home Office were not immediately on the phone to Cable & Wireless demanding  the setting up of an 0800 number in place of the 0870 number, within an hour or two of last week's London bombing.  If CW had asked for extra fees for the service they should have agreed to pay them.

Senior people in the Home Office have no excuse, they are totally at fault for not acting quickly on this issue but as usual they try to pass the buck elsewhere or to claims that 2+2=7!

-----Original Message-----
From: Gemmell Alan [mailto:Alan.Gemmell@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk]
Sent: 13 April 2005 13:38
Subject: Response from John Gieve

Please find a response from John Gieve below:

Thank you for your email of 19 March about the Department's use of an 0870 number for its main switchboard.

The Home Office is not unique amongst Government Departments in its use of 0870 numbers for its main switchboard but I agree there have been significant changes in the telecommunications market since we decided to introduce it and we are reviewing whether we should switch.  We should complete the review in the next few months and I will ensure that the points you have made are taken into account.

Katie Kerr, the Department's Customer Communication Manager, is responsible for the review.  I have asked her to inform you of the decision and, if a change is to be made, the timescale for implementing it.

Yours sincerely,

JOHN GIEVE"

Alan Gemmell

John Gieve's Office
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juby
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Re: HM Government and its millions
Reply #8 - Jul 16th, 2005 at 8:33pm
 
This thread is entitled HM Government and its millions.

Very good choice idb but I just thought I would point out that it is our money. The government does not have any money. They are in control spending our money.

Not very well I think.

juby
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« Last Edit: Jul 16th, 2005 at 8:37pm by juby »  
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bbb_uk
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Re: HM Government and its millions
Reply #9 - Jul 16th, 2005 at 11:25pm
 
Quote:
This thread is entitled HM Government and its millions.

Very good choice idb but I just thought I would point out that it is our money. The government does not have any money. They are in control spending our money.

Not very well I think.

juby

...
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idb
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Re: HM Government and its millions
Reply #10 - Jul 16th, 2005 at 11:38pm
 
Quote:
I'm guessing here but probably because David Derbyshire's article was about the increasing use of 0870 by the government whereas the other thread is generally specific to London bombing helpline.
Indeed. The Telegraph article is not specifically about the London explosions and only provides a brief reference to it, hence a separate thread. The article is *exactly* what is needed. Whilst we may have different views on what he should have included, Mr Derbyshire has provided, what is in essence an accurate description of the scam given probably limited space. I hope he manages to follow this up at a future date.
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