SAYNOTO0870.COM - London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number

idb

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #285 - Jul 15^th, 2005 at 6:09pm

http://www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.co.uk/news/localnews/display.var.614488.0....

includes:

Twickenham MP Dr Vincent Cable said that he planed to question the Prime Minister this week about the implications of the decision to switch 1,500 Met officers to the Gleneagles summit including terrorism specialists.

"I have also been asked to question ministers about why premium rate - 0845 and 0870 - numbers have been used for casualty help lines, penalising relatives of those who may be missing or injured. It is really a bit sick to take advantage of people in this way."

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #286 - Jul 15^th, 2005 at 6:27pm

Quote:

I've yet to receive a reply from Vodafone though the email I sent to Arun Sarin has been received.

Arun Sarin is no longer with Vodafone and has been replaced by Tim Miles.

I have had my complaint acknowledged and passed to another director to deal with as Mr Miles is on holiday. No reply as yet though.

Vodafone behave particualrly disgracefully for 0800, 0845 and 0870 for by not publishing prices on the website for Pay as You Go customers and not publishing them in the printed leaflet even though this does include rates for AA RoadWatch and various 0906 premium rate lines.

I think they are having an awkward time trying to think up any possible reasonable excuse.

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bigjohn Supreme Member Offline Posts: 2,316 Gender:	Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number Reply #287 - Jul 15^th, 2005 at 6:58pm Quote: Arun Sarin is no longer with Vodafone and has been replaced by Tim Miles. Sarin is still the CEO of the whole Vodafone Group. Miles is the CEO of Vodafone UK.
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bbb_uk Global Moderator Offline Posts: 2,041	Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number Reply #288 - Jul 15^th, 2005 at 7:03pm Well I wonder if my email to Arin, that has been read, will be forwarded on to the relevant person? That is what has happened with the other networks so far as it was someone else who responded except T-Mobile where Brian responded himself.
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bigjohn

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #289 - Jul 15^th, 2005 at 7:11pm

Quote:

I did notice that he mentioned that calls to the helpline were charged at normal rates as opposed to premium rates and I have sent a reply pointing out the rates as advertised on their website for calls to 0870 (35ppm)

35p a minute peak rate is what they charge to call a NGN on the online tariff. Once you have used up your inclusive minutes.Its also what they charge there online Payg customers.I think its different if you are on the High Street Tariff?.

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« Last Edit: Jul 15^th, 2005 at 7:12pm by bigjohn »

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bbb_uk

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #290 - Jul 15^th, 2005 at 7:35pm

Thanks BigJohn,

I have just read o2's website (highstreet PAYG) and it isn't very clear.

It reads:
Quote:

Standard Calls* - 25p for the first 3 mins/day then 5p/min for the rest of the day

but the small print for * reads:
Quote:

* UK to UK standard fixed line numbers. 0845, 0800 and 0870 numbers are charged at a fixed rate at all times.

Now that to me reads that calls to NGN's are always charged at a fixed rate (I assume 25ppm) and therefore don't go down after 3 minutes which is still contrary to the reply from o2 I got as he said they were charged as normal voice call charges.

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« Last Edit: Jul 15^th, 2005 at 7:36pm by bbb_uk »

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #291 - Jul 15^th, 2005 at 7:54pm

Quote:

Now that to me reads that calls to NGN's are always charged at a fixed rate (I assume 25ppm) and therefore don't go down after 3 minutes which is still contrary to the reply from o2 I got as he said they were charged as normal voice call charges.

That's because these tariffs are so evily deceitful and the NGN costs are so deliberately hidden that no one knows what is going on other than the mean spirited accountant who devised these strange and hidden NGN rates.

On the Vodafone PAYG I am now on (SmartPlus) it turns out to be 30p per minute to 0800, 0845 and 0870 in the weekday peak and 10p to 0845 and 0870 in the weekday evening and weekend and 5p to 0800 in the weekday evening and at the weekend. But on another PAYG tariff (SmartStep) it is 30p per minute, however many minutes in the weekday peak and then 30p per minute for the first 3 minutes in the weekday evening and weekend before falling to 10p (0845 and 0870) or 5p (0800) thereafter. This is all also subject to 2 minutes minimum connection charge per call.

It seems to be done in such a deliberately obtuse way that no one can possibly understand it. Not even, or possibly especially, their own customer services staff.

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juby Full Member Offline Posts: 203 Gloucestershire Gender:	Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number Reply #292 - Jul 15^th, 2005 at 10:15pm Have Cable and Wireless coughed up yet? juby
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NonGeographicalMan Ex Member	Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number Reply #293 - Jul 15^th, 2005 at 10:34pm Quote: Have Cable and Wireless coughed up yet? Have any pigs done any flights in your neighbourhood lately
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bbb_uk

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #294 - Jul 15^th, 2005 at 10:53pm

I have just received an email from Stephen Rimmer, HomeOffice (the return path I noticed was Anne Spoore). I and few other forum members were cc'd.

Quote:

Message from Stephen Rimmer

To: Councillor Julian Shersby
Mole Valley District Councillor for Caper, Leigh and Newdigate

Dear Councillor Shersby

CASUALTY BUREAU HELPLINE NUMBER

You will recall that we spoke by telephone last Friday, in response to your E-mails to the Metropolitan Police and copied to, among others, Sir John Gieve, the Permanent Secretary at the Home Office. You may also be aware that your point has been echoed by a number of E-mail correspondents and in Parliamentary Questions. Both you and other correspondents have also made specific application for information under the Freedom of Information Act.

2. First of all, may I say that we welcome the detailed and persuasive argument that you have put forward for a change from the current arrangement to use an 0870 number to access the national helpline at times of major incident such as so tragically occurred last week. You will also be aware that, on Friday evening, at the Metropolitan Police Service's request, PITO provided a geographic number 020 7158 0010 to sit alongside the 0870 number already operating, and both numbers were published on the Metropolitan Police Service's website. The next step, as the Minister for Policing Hazel Blears has announced today, is to conduct an urgent review into the use of the 0870 number. I am leading that work. I enclose a copy of the Minister's statement for information.

3. I should make absolutely clear that neither the Home Office, nor PITO nor the police service has profited financially from the use of the 0870 number. Cable and Wireless, who are the current contractors providing the telephony service for the Police National Network, have already offered to donate their profits from the use of the 0870 number last week to the London Bombings Relief Fund and Hazel Blears has asked other major service providers to waive the charge to their customers or, if that is not possible, to make commensurate donations.

4. The purpose of this E-mail is to assure you that the issues you have raised are being addressed as a matter of high priority. I shall ensure that you receive a full response as soon as possible. In the meantime, I would be grateful if you would direct any further comments and queries to me in the first instance.

5. I have taken the liberty of giving this E-mail the same wide circulation as you have so that all copy recipients are aware that I am leading on this work. I have also copied it to other correspondents who have expressed similar views to yours.

Stephen Rimmer
Director of Policing Policy

I have a few questions as follows:-

Concerning point number 2:-
2.1. Would the geographical number have been released at all if it wasn't due to the public discuss and bad press?

Concerning point number 3:-
3.1. Did you receive any money whatsoever (no matter what it was used for) with regards to the use of such number?

Can anyone else think of other points I can raise?

UPDATE: I'm being a bit lazy here can anyone tell me has an FOI on The Met or home office revealed if they received any payments back whatsoever (no matter what they were used for) as I can't exactly remember?

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« Last Edit: Jul 15^th, 2005 at 11:04pm by bbb_uk »

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idb

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #295 - Jul 15^th, 2005 at 10:55pm

I also received the email from Stephen Rimmer. The following was also attached:

HAZEL BLEARS’ STATEMENT
15 July 2005

"We will be working closely with ACPO to determine whether 0870 numbers, which have proved resilient to the demand resulting from last week's attacks, are the most appropriate way of providing Casualty Bureau access to the public. We will announce the result of the review in due course. Clearly the top priority is that anyone ringing the Bureau for information about their loved ones should receive an efficient service.
"Neither the Home Office, the police service or the Police Information Technology Organisation have made money from this facility. Cable and Wireless, the service provider, have agreed that they will donate the profit they made to the London Bombings Relief Fund.
"I have also written to all the telephone companies who have received calls on this number, to ask that they do not charge customers for those calls or, if that is not possible, that they donate their profits to charity in support of victims and their families.
"From Saturday 9 July, an 0207 number ran alongside the current 0870 number. The 0207 number enables greater accessibility for international callers and cheaper calls for landline and mobile users on certain tariffs."

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juby

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #296 - Jul 15^th, 2005 at 11:04pm

Quote:

I said the Queen has made a donation.

Not promised.

And I did note that NGM, when it happens I will believe it.

Sadly those of us who are old enough can remember when Cable and Wireless was one the world's most respected companies.

Then they were privatised.

juby

Have they coughed up yet?

I live next an airport and the flying pigs only go up on airshows, lots of fun tho'

Please let me know when they do.

juby

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« Last Edit: Jul 15^th, 2005 at 11:05pm by juby »

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PeDaSp

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #297 - Jul 15^th, 2005 at 11:50pm

"Neither the Home Office, the police service or the Police Information Technology Organisation have made money from this facility"

They've been watching too many episodes of "Yes Minister"; Sir Humphrey would be proud of them. Yes, technically, they have "made no money". But they have received thousands of pounds of call centre facilities and call routing for free or at reduced cost.

Indeed if they've been using 0870 numbers and received no benefit - then the Public Accounts Committee should be investigating why companies like C&W are making profits at the public's expense.

These guys need a FOI request to determine the monetary value of these services.

"cheaper calls for landline and mobile users on certain tariffs"

...and another FOI request to ascertain exactly on which tariffs landline or mobile telcos they think charge less, or the same, for calls to 0845 and 0870 numbers vs geographic numbers. If they know of any I'd like to sign up!!

All these emails from bigwigs is good news; but it's tragic that it has taken such evil acts as these bombings to bring this giant scam to wider attention.

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Keith

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #298 - Jul 16^th, 2005 at 12:32am

Quote:

http://www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.co.uk/news/localnews/display.var.614488.0....

includes:

Twickenham MP Dr Vincent Cable said that he planed to question the Prime Minister this week about the implications of the decision to switch 1,500 Met officers to the Gleneagles summit including terrorism specialists.

"I have also been asked to question ministers about why premium rate - 0845 and 0870 - numbers have been used for casualty help lines, penalising relatives of those who may be missing or injured. It is really a bit sick to take advantage of people in this way."

In an earlier posting I mentioned that a GLA member had promised to question the Chief Executive of the Metropolitan Police Authority for me and that an MP has promised to put down questions in the house on the use of these numbers for me and that I would supply feedback when I had it. The MP was Vince Cable. The GLA member is Dee Doocey. Good to see approaching them has caused some action.

Re the comments in letters in later postings that none of the public bodies involved in the helpline profited from the 0870 number - this is either tosh or absolutely appalling negotiating on behalf of these bodies for the 0870 contract. I suspect, as has already been suggested that it might be that costs were reduced.

As far as I can see there are 3 possibilities:

a) No profit was made in which case someone needs firing for negoatiating the only 0870 contract that didn't show a return.

b) They are lying.

c) There was a cost ofset i.e. there was a return for using the 0870 number.

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: London Blasts - Using 0870 as Emergency Number
Reply #299 - Jul 16^th, 2005 at 1:13am

Quote:

I have just received an email from Stephen Rimmer, HomeOffice (the return path I noticed was Anne Spoore). I and few other forum members were cc'd.

I wonder why Mr Rimmer should choose to treat one of his correspondents on this subject as being the lead one?

You would have thought that he might simply have replied to all his correspondents using the To email function equally?

As far as I can tell though from his email recipient list there are only four people who have been directly bothering the Home Office and Mr Rimmer on this. So do not be complacent and imagine that by now there are hundreds of campaigners beating on the home office's door. In fact there are only the four. The other recipients in the email are the people being asked to answer and account for their actions.

Does anyone want to own up to being any one of these people, even if only by sending me an Instant Message. Wink

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« Last Edit: Jul 16^th, 2005 at 1:23am by N/A »

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