Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
SAYNOTO0870.COM

<---- Back to main website

 
Home Help Search Login Register

Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Be Careful - Ofcom Are Watching Us! (Read 15,750 times)
NonGeographicalMan
Ex Member


Be Careful - Ofcom Are Watching Us!
Aug 19th, 2005 at 6:20pm
 
Dear All,

Following an objection raised by a very senior member of Ofcom staff to some comments made in the NTS Focus Groups thread it has become obvious that members of Ofcom staff are actively monitoring this forum for comments made about 0870 in general and of course in particular in relation to the role of Ofcom and its staff.

Whilst this is good news in many ways because it shows that they clearly take what we say seriously it does mean that you may also need to be a little more circumspect and careful in what you say in here than has perhaps been our custom in the past.

So in summary you have been warned.  Big Brother is watching what you say.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
idb
Supreme Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1,499
Miami, Florida, United States
Gender: male
Re: Be Careful - Ofcom Are Watching Us!
Reply #1 - Aug 19th, 2005 at 6:35pm
 
Quote:
Dear All,

Following an objection raised by a very senior member of Ofcom staff to some comments made in the NTS Focus Groups thread it has become obvious that members of Ofcom staff are actively monitoring this forum for comments made about 0870 in general and of course in particular in relation to the role of Ofcom and its staff.
Good. It is no great surprise that Ofcom staff look at this forum. At least it gets a differing point of view to that expressed by the NTS scammers.

Quote:
Whilst this is good news in many ways because it shows that they clearly take what we say seriously it does mean that you may also need to be a little more circumspect and careful in what you say in here than has perhaps been our custom in the past.
Not really. Ofcom needs to be exposed for what it is, at least ito telecomms issues - complacent, incompetent and unwilling to provide consumer protection. It has dithered on the NTS rip-off for many years. It is ineffective. It doesn't listen to the public. It should be replaced with a body that puts consumers' interests before those of NTS scammers. The whole NTS regime is predicated by deception. Our cats could have developed a more sensible national numbering plan. Ofcom is nothing but a joke organization presiding over a wholly corrupt NGN scheme.
Back to top
 

As from November 21, 2013, I no longer participate in the forum and am unable to receive private messages.
 
IP Logged
 
NonGeographicalMan
Ex Member


Re: Be Careful - Ofcom Are Watching Us!
Reply #2 - Aug 19th, 2005 at 6:49pm
 
Quote:
Ofcom needs to be exposed for what it is, at least ito telecomms issues - complacent, incompetent and unwilling to provide consumer protection. It has dithered on the NTS rip-off for many years. It is ineffective. It doesn't listen to the public. It should be replaced with a body that puts consumers' interests before those of NTS scammers. The whole NTS regime is predicated by deception. Our cats could have developed a more sensible national numbering plan. Ofcom is nothing but a joke organization presiding over a wholly corrupt NGN scheme.


You may very well say that as also may I when posting on here.

But someone I know well might have to take a somewhat more diplomatic stance when approaching Ofcom wearing their public hat.

But I agree a total lack of confidence in a major public regulator is the key issue.  The fact that their fresh faced under 40 year old Chief Executive is also fomer Chief Operating Officer of NTL gives every possible cause for concern.  I wonder how he came to get this role of a heavyweight uk regulator at such a young age.  I know nothing about him (other than what is posted on the Ofcom website) but I have a horrible feeling that high level contacts with New Labour will have had something to do with it all.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
PeDaSp
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 111
Re: Be Careful - Ofcom Are Watching Us!
Reply #3 - Aug 19th, 2005 at 7:45pm
 
It's "ye olde revolving door"...

What's this boss of Ofcom going to do when his time there expiries? Become a monk? Run a fish and chip shop?

What's the betting he pops right back into the telcom business with his pals. Would they welcome him back if he spends his time at Ofcom protecting the consumer rather than lining his old mates pockets? ...I don't think so.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
nutellajunkie
Full Member
***
Offline


[GURU MEDITATION]

Posts: 191
Alba
Gender: male
Re: Be Careful - Ofcom Are Watching Us!
Reply #4 - Aug 19th, 2005 at 8:05pm
 
*cough*ofcom*cough* Lips Sealed oh, ok, no comment!
Back to top
 


Call 0800/0808/0500 with no credit! True unlimited talk/text/data. PM for recipe.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
dorf
Supreme Member
*****
Offline


I hate Qs on Premium NGNs

Posts: 575
UK
Gender: male
Re: Be Careful - Ofcom Are Watching Us!
Reply #5 - Aug 19th, 2005 at 10:18pm
 
Why should we need to be careful? We are not the ones who have anything to hide.

It is Ofcom that need to be careful - that is the only reason they monitor this forum!
Back to top
 

Ofcom are completely ineffectual
 
IP Logged
 
NonGeographicalMan
Ex Member


Re: Be Careful - Ofcom Are Watching Us!
Reply #6 - Aug 19th, 2005 at 10:34pm
 
Quote:
Why should we need to be careful? We are not the ones who have anything to hide.

It is Ofcom that need to be careful - that is the only reason they monitor this forum!

Dorf,

You are right in many ways but sometimes one can say things that one might not say if one thinks the opposition is watching.  As it might give the opposition an advantage that one does not want them to have.  Also why do most of us here not use our real names if we have nothing at all to hide?

Ofcom have plenty to hide though including the disgrace of their allowing BT to increase the cost of basic phone line rental by letting them abolish BT Standard line rental and making BT Option 1 compulsory for 8 million customers.  Yet Ofcom's own just finished review of the value of BT's Copper Wire network shows BT line rental shoul probably only be about £20 per quarter.

So yes Ofcom have much more to hide than we do.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Aug 19th, 2005 at 10:40pm by N/A »  
 
IP Logged
 
farci
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 190
Glasgow
Gender: male
Re: Be Careful - Ofcom Are Watching Us!
Reply #7 - Aug 20th, 2005 at 12:50am
 
Grow up guys!

The point of this site IS to offer a consumer's point of view.

Ofcom is funded from our taxes and payments to telecom operators. We pay their wages.

0870 etc is a hidden tax...
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
bbb_uk
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 2,041
Re: Be Careful - Ofcom Are Watching Us!
Reply #8 - Aug 20th, 2005 at 1:28am
 
Quote:
..Ofcom have plenty to hide though including the disgrace of their allowing BT to increase the cost of basic phone line rental by letting them abolish BT Standard line rental and making BT Option 1 compulsory for 8 million customers...
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but BT are expected to increase line rental again shortly.  It was meant to be around the beginning of this month but the dates were subject to change as this was the email I received from them:-
Quote:
As per your query, I would like to inform you that the charges are to be in effect from 1st august 2005 as per the press release is concerned and these dates are liable to change. Moreover, you will be informed of the proceedings when it comes in to effect. You will receive these updates with your bill...

This was discussed in more detail over on the MSE forum
here
(pricefigher started the thread after noticing the BT press release).

According to the press release which was issued shortly after our wonderful(!?) OfCOM decided that BT has to widen the margin between the line rental charged by themselves (BT) and those of OneTel, etc (using Wholesale Line Rental) to more than the 50p it is now.  Now because our wonderful OfCOM didn't think things through properly, BT released a press release to say they were reducing the WLR charged to the likes of OneTel, etc by 50p and shortly after increasing the line rental charged by themselves (BT) by 50p as well.  This would effectively mean about £1.50 a month (currently 50p a month) saving assuming OneTel, etc pass these savings on to their customers and for which it would satisfy OfCOM.

Personally though, I think OfCOM should have insisted on BT reducing the cost of WLR charged to the likes of OneTel, etc but at the same time telling them they couldn't increase the cost of line rental charged to their own customers.  Due to this lack of forward thinking, BT compromised by decreasing WLR and also increasing our line rental by 50p a month - making it £1 a month difference.  As OneTel's line rental is currently 50p cheaper now anyhow, this extra £1 means that OneTel could possibly do line rental for £1.50 a month cheaper than BT.

This is why I think BT have done Caller Display free to all their customers including those using CPS providers. They probably hope this will make people think twice about moving their line rental over to the likes of OneTel, etc because for those that use Caller Display (a lot I would have thought), it probably wouldn't be worth moving line rental just yet as the saving is balanced out with BT's free caller display.

This would all change if OneTel, etc decided to do free caller display as well as BT which none of them have yet decided to do.

Update:

For those interested the press-release from BT that I've mentioned above can be found here, the relevant paragraph of this is quoted below:-
Quote:
WLR operators are also set to benefit from greater margins for consumer line rental. BT is to cut the monthly price other operators pay by 50 pence per line from August 1 2005 before raising the amount its own retail arm charges (including VAT) by 50 pence later in the financial year. The price other operators pay for WLR will decrease further next year giving an overall margin increase of more than 10 per cent
Back to top
« Last Edit: Aug 20th, 2005 at 1:41am by bbb_uk »  
 
IP Logged
 
NonGeographicalMan
Ex Member


Re: Be Careful - Ofcom Are Watching Us!
Reply #9 - Aug 20th, 2005 at 2:05am
 
But the Ofcom report just publised on the Copper Loop shows that BT only needs to charge £58.51 per year or less than £15 a quarter to cover the costs of the copper loop.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/copper/value2/statement/

Personally I reckon this is still  more totally misleading accounting by BT that their buddies at Ofcom have just blindly signed off given that the copper pipe for my water supply only costs £5 per quarter to rent.  Yet those people actually have a much more expensive network to maintain than BT does.

There is no way phone line rental standing charge should be more than £15 per quarter. The current £126 a year ripoff with no caller display etc is a complete swindle.  Also why should I be forced to go taking a PSTN phone service at all when all I want is a broadband service on the line?  For anyone on a low income (which currently includes me) the high fixed cost of these basic essential services is totally unreasonable, as of course is the council tax, most of which goes on school fees that I don't benefit from.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
NonGeographicalMan
Ex Member


Re: Be Careful - Ofcom Are Watching Us!
Reply #10 - Aug 20th, 2005 at 2:12am
 
Quote:
Grow up guys!

The point of this site IS to offer a consumer's point of view.


Farci,

Do you think that with only 3 posts in this forum you are yet in a position to tell us how to run it.

We know very well that this forum offers a consumer perspective.  We are just debating the consequences of Ofcom actively tracking our discussions.

I believe Ofcom was supposed to also consider the consumer perspective as part of its remit but under its present former NTL CEO it seems to have conveniently totally lost track of this particular goal.

BT is being allowed to ramp up the line rental to fund an £11bn investment project to keep its telecoms monopoly in 50% of the country going but it would have been far better for most of us if BT had been allowed to go belly up and its assets transferred to a Telephone Transco without all the historically inefficient staffing methods and oddball cultural traditions that keep BT's costs so sky high.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
farci
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 190
Glasgow
Gender: male
Re: Be Careful - Ofcom Are Watching Us!
Reply #11 - Aug 20th, 2005 at 9:23am
 
Farci,

Do you think that with only 3 posts in this forum you are yet in a position to tell us how to run it.

We know very well that this forum offers a consumer perspective.  We are just debating the consequences of Ofcom actively tracking our discussions.

I believe Ofcom was supposed to also consider the consumer perspective as part of its remit but under its present former NTL CEO it seems to have conveniently totally lost track of this particular goal.


My apologies, I did not realise there is an 'us' & the rest of the unwashed -  3 posts or 333. I thought this was a democracy...

My point is we (sorry, YOU THE LEADERS) have no need to be apologetic to the unelected back scratchers at Ofcom and since I vented my spleen the discussion has become more mature and interesting.

Good going - keep reading Private Eye for conspiracy theories. I know I do.

Was that all right, Sir  Shocked
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
NonGeographicalMan
Ex Member


Re: Be Careful - Ofcom Are Watching Us!
Reply #12 - Aug 20th, 2005 at 9:35am
 
Quote:
My apologies, I did not realise there is an 'us' & the rest of the unwashed -  3 posts or 333. I thought this was a democracy...


Dear Farci,

No we do not of course really have a clique here but it was just your comment for us to "grow up guys" that slightly got my goat when one would perhaps only expect such a chiding type of comment to be made by someone with an already well established reputation in the forum.  You were ticking us off but you have not yet quite proved yourself to be an all wise oracle in the forum.

I know of course how annoying it can be to participate in a web forum where there appears to be a clique and the newbies are regularly put down.  But telling us to "grow up" seemed a bit OTT.  I'm sure you could have made precisely the same point in a slightly different way is all I was really saying.

As to Ofcom yes they are an unelected oligarchy who mainly only consider what is in the best interests of the telcos.  But some of us have to deal with them outside the forum under our real identities so might need to be slightly more careful about what we say about them.  That's all I was originally saying.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
dag
Newbie
*
Offline



Posts: 7
Re: Be Careful - Ofcom Are Watching Us!
Reply #13 - Aug 20th, 2005 at 10:44am
 
So - OFCOM are watching. Isn't that supposed to be a good thing?

I concede the point that there have been one or two arguably hysterical conspiracy theories posted on this board from time to time - but so what? Consumer grievance about 0870 numbers has been around for several years, as has the Say No To 0870 forum itself. Yet the regulator has, for the most part, just thumbed its nose up to us - or at least that's how it looks to us.

So I think you can't blame people for thinking there's more to it than meets the eye - hence the conspiracy theories. And you can't blame people for being angry about it too.

So what's the regulator going to do? Is OFCOM going to turn round and announce: "We've been reading the Say No To 0870 forum, and we think that some of the contributors are a bit crazy. We have decided to take vengeance against the ones who have upset us, and we will do this by encouraging the telecommunications industry to charge even more for 0870 numbers."

Somehow - I don't think it's going to happen!

The fact that OFCOM have proved they're watching is a huge step in the right direction, as far as I'm concerned.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Graham
Newbie
*
Offline



Posts: 23
Gender: male
Re: Be Careful - Ofcom Are Watching Us!
Reply #14 - Aug 20th, 2005 at 4:21pm
 
When people let rip at Ofcom let's keep a sense of balance and remember that consumer apathy and consumer ignorance are as much a part of the problem as regulation.

There are some (very few) banks with 0800 or geographic numbers, some (very few) credit cards with 0800 or geographic numbers, there are even some mail order companies left with geographic numbers. Why don't these companies get all the business leaving the others with no customers. The answer is largely consumer apathy and ignorance.

Consumers could have stopped the rot years ago if they had voted with their feet.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
(Moderators: Forum Admin, Dave, bbb_uk, CJT-80, DaveM)

Website and Content © 1999-2020 SAYNOTO0870.COM. All Rights Reserved.
Written permission is required to duplicate any of the content within this site.

WARNING: This is an open forum, posts are NOT endorsed by SAYNOTO0870.COM,
please exercise due caution when acting on any info from here.


SAYNOTO0870.COM » Powered by YaBB 2.5.2!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2021. All Rights Reserved.


Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge