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NHS DIRECT  0845 (Read 100,005 times)
derrick
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Re: NHS DIRECT  0845
Reply #15 - Mar 22nd, 2006 at 10:30am
 
Despite my saying that I would not complain to the I O, after reading NGM repl, (14) I decide I would, and after sending an e-mail reminder yesterday received the following today:-


21st March 2006


Dear Mr ****


Your information request to NHS Direct.


Thank you for your correspondence dated 10 March 2006 in which you make a complaint about NHS Direct's decision not to release the information you requested. 


Your case has been allocated to one of our case resolution teams who will contact you as soon as possible to explain how your case will be progressed.  Due to the volume of complaints we are receiving at present it may be up to two months before you hear from us.

If you need to contact us about any aspect of your complaint about NHS Direct please be sure to quote the reference number at the top of this letter. 


Yours sincerely,


Customer Service Team

The Information Commissioner's Office


[b]
Also a copy of their e-mail to NHS Direct
[/b]


21st March 2006



Dear Mr Dale


Freedom of Information Act Section 50

Complaint from Mr *******

Information request made 12 January 2006


The Information Commissioner has recently received a complaint from Mr ************.  It is alleged that information was withheld inappropriately in response to the request of 12 January 2006.  We have enclosed a copy of this request for your information.  We have carried out an initial assessment of this case and deemed it eligible for formal consideration under section 50 of the Act.

The case will be allocated to a case officer who will contact you with further details of the complaint. Where information has been withheld because you (the Public Authority) have applied one of the exemptions in Part 2 of the Act, the case officer will need to have a copy of the information to judge whether or not any exemptions have been properly applied. 

The officer will not, however, generally wish to be provided with this withheld information in cases where you have chosen neither to confirm nor deny holding the information, where you have judged a case to be vexatious, where you have refused it because it could not be met within the appropriate limit or where the alleged breach of the Part 1 of the Act is delay in response.

We would stress that until you hear from the case officer you are not required to take any specific action. However, we would ask that you send us a copy of the information that has been withheld from the complainant where you are able to do so.  Please be sure to quote the reference number from the top of this letter.

We also emphasise that although we have assessed the complaint as being eligible, in that it meets the criteria set out in section 50 of the Act requiring the Information Commissioner to decide whether a public authority has dealt with a request for information in accordance with Part I of the Act, no specific decision has been made as to the individual merits of the case at this time.

Should you have any specific concerns please contact us being sure to quote the reference number from the top of this letter.

Yours sincerely,

Sharon Boot

Customer Service Team

The Information Commissioner's Office











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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: NHS DIRECT 0845
Reply #16 - Mar 22nd, 2006 at 11:04am
 
Looks like they are taking this seriously given the NHS's 50 million odd customers.  Hopefully you may now get further with the NHS Direct.

However expect NHS Direct to be one of the first to get an 03 Countrwide number in in addition to its 0845 as, when and If this new class of numbers is formally approved by Ofcom.

Although Ofcom likes Light Touch if I was the Information Commissioner I would be screaming at the government that tougher rules to protect the consumer from telephone number abuse are required so as to prevent his office from being overwhelmed with complaints about 084/7 number abuses.
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trevord
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Re: NHS DIRECT  0845
Reply #17 - Mar 22nd, 2006 at 11:43am
 
Quote:
However expect NHS Direct to be one of the first to get an 03 Countrwide number in in addition to its 0845 as, when and If this new class of numbers is formally approved by Ofcom.

But they have a special short 0845 number 0845 46 47, so would they want a new 03 geo-type number unless they can also have a special number there?

Also, if their telecoms provider has provided equipment at cheap rates on the basis of getting a cut from the 0845 call charges (bearing in mind that NHS Direct say they receive no revenue), will they be free to move to a geo-rate number?
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« Last Edit: Mar 22nd, 2006 at 11:44am by trevord »  
 
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derrick
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Re: NHS DIRECT  0845
Reply #18 - Jan 11th, 2007 at 11:22am
 
I have just put a response re a FOI request on this board re the BBC  http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1159046898/0 ; and thought I would update this one as well, the 2 responses are below:-


[color=#0000ff]
Information Commissioner's Office

Promoting public access to official information and protecting your personal information

17th November 2006   
Case Reference Number FS

Dear Mr *****

Further to our recent telephone conversation I am writing to advise that I have now written to NHS Direct about its refusal to provide its geographic telephone number.
As you know it has applied three exemptions to justify its refusal to disclose the information you have requested and my letter to it deals with a number of issues surrounding the application of each of these exemptions.
I have asked it to respond to my letter within 20 working days and as soon as I am in receipt of its reply I hope to be in a much better position to consider whether or not these exemptions have been correctly applied.
I will endeavour to keep you updated as far as I am able to do so with the progress of my investigations.

Pam Clements
FOI Team Leader Health and Transport
Information Commissioner's Office, Wycliffe House, Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire, SK9 5AF 1B25 545700 f: 01625 524510 e: mail@ico.gsi.gov.uk w: ico.gov.uk





Information Commissioner's Office

Promoting public access to official information and protecting your personal information

19th December 2006

Case Reference Number F3

Dear Mr ******

I am writing to inform you that as yet there have been no developments in the investigation of your complaint since I last wrote to you on 17 November.
I am still waiting for a reply from the NHS Direct and have today sent it a further letter requesting a response within the next 10 working days.

I will endeavour to keep you updated on any developments

Yours sincerely

Pam Clements
FOI Team Leader Health and Transport


Information Commissioner's Office, Wycliffe House, Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire, SK9 5AF O1625 545700 f: 01625 524510 e: mail@ico.gsi.gov.uk w: ico.gov.uk



So nobody seems to take any notice of the ICO.
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Barbara
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Re: NHS DIRECT 0845
Reply #19 - Mar 28th, 2007 at 11:40am
 
Maybe it is my imagination and maybe I am in the wrong thread (this is the nearest that came up when I searched) but I thought that, during last year, there was info posted on the forum that NHS Direct were promising to give geographical alternatives to the 0845 by the end of 2006.   Did I imagine this?  It would seem from the fact that there is an FOI from the end of 2006 that the promise was not fulfilled but I wonder if anyone else remembers it?
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Dave
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Re: NHS DIRECT  0845
Reply #20 - Mar 28th, 2007 at 12:48pm
 
Barbara wrote on Mar 28th, 2007 at 11:40am:
Maybe it is my imagination and maybe I am in the wrong thread (this is the nearest that came up when I searched) but I thought that, during last year, there was info posted on the forum that NHS Direct were promising to give geographical alternatives to the 0845 by the end of 2006.   Did I imagine this?  It would seem from the fact that there is an FOI from the end of 2006 that the promise was not fulfilled but I wonder if anyone else remembers it?

This is from the OP:

derrick wrote on Jan 22nd, 2006 at 2:37pm:
2. What is the equivalent geographical number?

We do not have geographical numbers into our contact centres for the core NHS Direct Service.  We are working towards the use of geographical numbers alongside the 0845 national number in 2006 but we have to change some of our infrastructure at the moment to ensure that all our 22 centres can fully integrate with the passing of calls and medical records to less busy lines across the country. Until this is completed it is not possible to clinically safely provide this service.

Is this what you are looking for?
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Barbara
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Re: NHS DIRECT 0845
Reply #21 - Mar 28th, 2007 at 1:48pm
 
Yes, Dave, thanks, that was it, proves I'm not completely mad.   I wonder does anyone have an update on that?
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derrick
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Re: NHS DIRECT  0845
Reply #22 - Apr 2nd, 2007 at 11:00am
 
I have just spoken to the case worker at the ICO office, she has still not progressed this sufficiently as the office is extremely busy!!! although she has had correspondence with them and they,(NHS DIRECT), are now saying that the new system will not be in place until 2008 !!!

I was told that a similar question asked of the Scottish NHS 24 to the Scottish ICO was decided in favour of NHS 24 , under the health and safety exemption !

The decision is at this web page: -
http://www.itspublicknowledge.info/appealsdecisions/decisions/Documents/Decision...

The decision date is November 2005, but the English ICO's office has look at the decision and I am told that whilst it will not influence their decision? it does have some similarities and she would welcome my comments,(as I would from members of this site so I can pass them on),
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Re: NHS DIRECT 0845
Reply #23 - Apr 8th, 2007 at 6:21pm
 
derrick wrote on Apr 2nd, 2007 at 11:00am:
The decision date is November 2005, but the English ICO's office has look at the decision and I am told that whilst it will not influence their decision? it does have some similarities and she would welcome my comments,(as I would from members of this site so I can pass them on),
That's a hard one that and I do agree that there are similarities.  I personally can't think of a way around this and on this occasion it maybe best to except defeat.  The H&S reasons they used for denying the underlying geographical number is new(ish) excuse but I can see how it is also true (or could be true) as well.  It's is a known fact that NGN can handle a lot more calls than a geographical can and this doesn't take into account the routing of calls to nearest call centre/PCT, etc.

I know it's not the news you're after but I can't think of any way of getting around this
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derrick
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Re: NHS DIRECT  0845
Reply #24 - Apr 11th, 2007 at 1:27pm
 
bbb_uk,  have a look at replies #8 & #9, where I still think I have a chance
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derrick
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Re: NHS DIRECT  0845
Reply #25 - Aug 1st, 2007 at 9:41am
 
Well I have finally got a decision from the ICO, and guess what? it goes in NHS Directs favour, although not 100%,

Here are the 2 main pages from  the decision,the info runs to 18 A4 sheets and actually believes the lies that NHS Direct put out re section 38 of the act,(Health & Safety).


Reference: FS500*******
Freedom of Information Act 2000 (Section 50)
Decision Notice
Date: 30 July 2007

Public Authority:            NHS Direct

Address:                       Marlborough Court
                                   Sunrise Parkway
                                   Linford Wood East
                                   Milton Keynes
                                   MK146DY




Complainant:
Address:


Summary

The complainant sought disclosure of the geographic telephone numbers for NHS
Direct. NHS Direct refused to disclose the information on the basis that it was exempt by
virtue of section 22 (future publication), section 38 (health and safety) and section 44
(prohibition on disclosure). Following correspondence with the Commissioner it withdrew
the application of section 44. Having considered the complaint the Commissioner
decided that the information was not exempt under section 22.
However he decided that
section 38 was engaged and that the public interest in maintaining the exemption
outweighed the public interest in disclosure. The Commissioner also concluded that the
public authority had breached section 1 of the Act by incorrectly claiming the information
was not held and that it had breached the requirements of section 17 of the Act by failing
to issue an adequate refusal notice.



The Commissioner's Role

1.    The Commissioner's duty is to decide whether a request for information made to
a public authority has been dealt with in accordance with the requirements of Part
1 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (the "Act"). This Notice sets out his
decision.


Reference: FS500******                                             

The Decision

63.   The Commissioner has decided that NHS Direct failed to comply with section
1(1 )(a) of the Act
by initially incorrectly claiming that it did not hold the geographic
numbers.

64.   Furthermore, the Commissioner has decided that NHS Direct has breached
section 17(1) of the Act
by failing to specify in its refusal notice the exemptions it
was relying on and why it applied.

65.   The Commissioner has also decided NHS Direct has breached section 17(7) of
the Act
by failing to provide details of its complaints procedure or explain the right
to complain to the Information Commissioner.

66.   The Commissioner has also decided that NHS Direct incorrectly applied section
22 of the Act.


67.   However the Commissioner's decision is that the information requested is exempt
under section 38 of the Act because disclosure of the information would or would
be likely to endanger the health and safety of individuals and the public interest
favours maintaining the exemption.

Steps Required

68.   The Commissioner requires no steps to be taken.


So I nearly got it in my favour, but at the moment they are winning, as I said above the decision runs to 18 A4 pages, and as yet is not showing on the ICO's website so I cannot link to it, I am  happy to forward it in an e-mail,( but that might have to be over several e-mails re how much my hrovider will allow over the net at one time), to anyone who would like to look at it and suggest, (in a PM, as they are aware of this site and this thread), anything I could put to an appeal against the decision, I have 28 calendar days to lodge such an appeal, also notice in the appeal details the contact number,(despite their "condemnation" in the decision of 0845 numbers by public bodies), their contact number is an 0845!!


Reference: FS500******

Right of Appeal


69.   Either party has the right to appeal against this Decision Notice to the Information
Tribunal. Information about the appeals process may be obtained from:
Information Tribunal
Arnhem House Support Centre
PO Box 6987
Leicester
LE1 6ZX

Tel:  0845 600 0877

Fax: 01162494253

Email: informationtribunakS^dca. gsi.gov.uk

Any Notice of Appeal should be served on the Tribunal within 28 calendar days of
the date on which this Decision Notice is served.
Dated the 30th day of July 2007

Signed ......^.l.t^P^y4^.....

Richard Thomas
Information Commissioner

Information Commissioner's Office
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
Wilmslow
Cheshire
SK9 5AF





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derrick
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Re: NHS DIRECT  0845
Reply #26 - Aug 7th, 2007 at 12:46pm
 
The decision notice is now on the ICO's website http://www.ico.gov.uk/tools_and_resources/decision_notices/2007_07.aspx

Scroll down to the 5th from the top,( at this time on this date).

Case Ref: FS500108885

Date: 30/07/2007

Public Authority: NHS Direct

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derrick
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Re: NHS DIRECT  0845
Reply #27 - Aug 18th, 2007 at 11:17am
 
derrick wrote on Aug 7th, 2007 at 12:46pm:
The decision notice is now on the ICO's website http://www.ico.gov.uk/tools_and_resources/decision_notices/2007_07.aspx

Scroll down to the 5th from the top,( at this time on this date).

Case Ref: FS500108885

Date: 30/07/2007

Public Authority: NHS Direct




This link will take you straight to the D4ecision Notice,( PDF):-

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/decisionnotices/2007/fs_500108885.pdf
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Heinz
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Re: NHS DIRECT  0845
Reply #28 - Aug 18th, 2007 at 2:34pm
 
I wonder what would happen if someone did a FOI request to the  Information Tribunal re its 0845 600 0877 number and they refused to answer?

Who would you complain to?
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« Last Edit: Aug 18th, 2007 at 2:35pm by Heinz »  

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015
WWW  
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derrick
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Re: NHS DIRECT  0845
Reply #29 - Aug 18th, 2007 at 3:25pm
 
Heinz wrote on Aug 18th, 2007 at 2:34pm:
I wonder what would happen if someone did a FOI request to the  Information Tribunal re its 0845 600 0877 number and they refused to answer?

Who would you complain to?


Soon find out, I have just sent a FOI request to the Information Tribunal.
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