SAYNOTO0870.COM - BBC still at it

derrick

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BBC still at it
Jul 20^th, 2006 at 5:21pm

A new programme on BBC 1 last night at 7-30 p.m. Are We Being Served,(certainly not by the BBC), about customer services, at the end they gave a number for viewers to reply with their own customer service stories, and the number to contact them on, yes,08700 104 515, and yes that is how they presented the number,(not the underlining, that was me)
Maybe they should be reported to Watchdog Grin

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« Last Edit: Jul 20^th, 2006 at 5:22pm by derrick »

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Heinz Supreme Member Offline Posts: 1,362 Essex	Re: BBC still at it Reply #1 - Jul 21^st, 2006 at 10:16am An e-mail of complaint to arewebeingserved@diverse.tv appears necessary.
Back to top	After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015 IP Logged

derrick Supreme Member Offline Posts: 1,124	Re: BBC still at it Reply #2 - Jul 21^st, 2006 at 10:25am But they are not describing it as "national rate".The website is HERE then click on Shoddy Service on the left hand side.
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mikeparris

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Re: BBC still at it
Reply #3 - Jul 21^st, 2006 at 12:36pm

Just emailed this. Dont think it will help, but made me feel better.

"
Example of shoddy service - Organisations that use revenue generating telephone numbers, such as 0870 104515, to gather material for their programmes.

They should be pointed towards departments that have seen the light such as Watchdog. Why not ask them why they changed their number recently?

"

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derrick

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Re: BBC still at it
Reply #4 - Jul 21^st, 2006 at 12:50pm

I sent the following at 10.50 a.m.

Hello.

You appear to have learnt nothing from your sister programme, Watchdog, who in the last series bowed to public pressure and stopped using rip off 0870 and changed to a geographical number.

All Government agencies,(and I include BBC in that) have been told NOT to use 0870 for consumer contact,these numbers are premium rate,yes PREMIUM, as the cost is 2½ time the amount of a geo call from a BT landline, (a 150% premium on an ordinary 01/02 number) and can cost up to 40p per minute from a mobile or payphone.

The BBC receive their revenue from the licence fee and should not be covertly receiving more via the telephone system, the very least you should do is to display the cost of calling these numbers so as to be within CAP/COI guidelines.

Please supply the geographical number that your 08700 104515 relates to and please do not tell me it does not, as all 0870 numbers point at a geo number

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derrick

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Re: BBC still at it
Reply #5 - Jul 23^rd, 2006 at 10:52am

Received a reply to my e-mail, the usual junk.

Dear Mr
>
> Thank you for your e-mail.
>
> I appreciate that you continue to object to the BBC's use of 0870 numbers.
>
> As previous correspondence on this issue has stated, the BBC gave considerable thought to the appropriate use of national rate numbers and decided that callers to the BBC should pay the same costs regardless of where they were calling from, and those costs, typically should be no more than the price of a stamp.
>
> There is also another operational benefit of using 0870 numbers. Along with other non-geographic numbers' such as 0800, 0845 etc it is possible to better route these calls and report statistics. To better serve the BBC audience we have several contact centres handling telephone calls, emails and letters. These contact centres operate as one 'virtual' service and depend on the use of 0870 and other 'intelligent network numbers' to provide the best customer service.
>
> Call charges are a matter for the network operators and the regulator but the BBC use of 0870 numbers is the result of careful policy and operational considerations.
>
> Nevertheless, I do acknowledge your continued concern and can assure you that your further comments on this matter will be fully registered and made available to senior management within the BBC. Feedback of this nature helps us when making decisions about future BBC programmes and services and your views will most certainly play a part in this process.
>
> Thank you again for taking the time to contact us.
>
> Regards
>
> Jonathan Carberry

>

BBC Information

So it looks like they keep records of complaints as in the line in the e-mail,

"I appreciate that you continue to object to the BBC's use of 0870 numbers."

Because I have made several complaints re these numbers.

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« Last Edit: Jul 23^rd, 2006 at 11:24am by derrick »

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Barbara

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Re: BBC still at it
Reply #6 - Jul 23^rd, 2006 at 12:38pm

Aha, same reply as I received recently, almost word for word, just a different "signatory"!! They may well keep records of who objects but they don't care enought to rectify the matter. The point they can NEVER grasp is that they COULD offer a choice of NGN or geog number and then the customer could decide for themselves, as many, me included, would not mind if I could not be re-routed or counted as a statistic! I suspect they think we are all lunatics and have nothing but contempt for their customers anyway, the same as they don't care about awful radio and TV reception (& I'm talking about within 50 miles of London!)

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Tanllan Supreme Member Offline Posts: 797 Gender:	Re: BBC still at it Reply #7 - Jul 23^rd, 2006 at 12:55pm But the fact that the bbc has a pretty extensive network enabling all manner of smart routing, call handling, statistical reporting and information trapping seems to escape them. What a waste of technology.
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derrick

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Re: BBC still at it
Reply #8 - Jul 23^rd, 2006 at 2:31pm

Tanllan wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2006 at 12:55pm:

But the fact that the bbc has a pretty extensive network enabling all manner of smart routing, call handling, statistical reporting and information trapping seems to escape them.
What a waste of technology. Sad

Can this be done on an 01/02 number? Because one would assume they will say it can't !

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Tanllan

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Re: BBC still at it
Reply #9 - Jul 23^rd, 2006 at 3:52pm

Incoming stats are available and I managed to perform network routing for clients on (much) smaller systems several years ago - on networks a fraction of the size of the beeb's. And I would presume that BT, C&W, COLT and Energis would all fall over themselves to provide service for such a customer. Think of the termination fees...
I am suggesting, of course, that some of the routing be performed internally if really required, but it could be done in the PSTN. After all call gapping works on normal numbers in the PSTN. Time for another trip to Oswestry I think.

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kevinl

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Re: BBC still at it
Reply #10 - Jul 28^th, 2006 at 8:25pm

The simple answer is yes, all services that are provided on 0870 numbers can also be provided on 01 and 02 geographic numbers.

However the biggest difference is the cost to the BBC…

They have several options, all of which would work out very expensive:
1.) They could get BT to do the advanced routing, this would be costly due to the setup and ongoing fees charged by BT (if it is indeed possible in the first place).
2.) They could do it all in house, however this would mean more resources and staff to deal with the extra hardware and training, whether it was outsourced or not.
3.) They could approach a third part company for the 01 or 02 number, however these are currently thin on the ground and would incur the BBC a per minute fee.

Where as with an 0870 number there is enough money to provide the majority, if not all service charges for the service.

Also if they provided an 0207 number or an 01923 number for example, would they be discriminating and ripping off other people around the country, as opposed to people calling locally?

Personally as a licence fee payer I believe it is a choice to call these numbers, rather then a necessity, thus their should be a premium to pay for calling the number, especially as the costs are higher to provide such a service.

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idb

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Re: BBC still at it
Reply #11 - Jul 28^th, 2006 at 11:41pm

kevinl wrote on Jul 28^th, 2006 at 8:25pm:

The simple answer is yes, all services that are provided on 0870 numbers can also be provided on 01 and 02 geographic numbers.

However the biggest difference is the cost to the BBC…

They have several options, all of which would work out very expensive:

[...]

The reason the poor old Beeb resorts to 0870 is that Capita, its provider, is allowed to exploit the public by HMG and the useless Ofcom. The Beeb could use geographic and/or toll-free alternatives but this would mean that Capita, a large donor to the current party of government, would not receive its valuable revenue. Telephone provision is a service, and it should be funded accordingly through, in this case, the license fee.

Other large media organizations - CNN, NBC, ABC and CBS - have no need to use premium-rate numbers, and I suspect that European broadcasters such as ZDF, RAI and FR1 also have no such need for this level of exploitation.

The Beeb is an excellent example of how a public organization is able to exploit its audience aided by a spineless regulator.

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Dave

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Re: BBC still at it
Reply #12 - Jul 29^th, 2006 at 12:41am

kevinl wrote on Jul 28^th, 2006 at 8:25pm:

Also if they provided an 0207 number or an 01923 number for example, would they be discriminating and ripping off other people around the country, as opposed to people calling locally?

As someone who is apparently quite knowledgeable about telecoms, I find it hard to believe that you really believe the myth that there are still such things as local and national calls for most people.

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