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NEG propaganda (Read 713,060 times)
derrick
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #405 - Oct 24th, 2007 at 5:12pm
 
sherbert wrote on Oct 24th, 2007 at 5:04pm:
This just goes to show they have not got a clue what they are talking about. They are just being hoodwinked. Do you reckon she is supplying information to you that her provider is furnishing her with?



I would not be surprised, I just keep resubmitting my questions and asking others relating to her responses, I think eventually she will just stop replying, lets face it they are just civil servants at the end of the day, and they really don't give a t**s bout their paymasters, i.e. the taxpayers.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #406 - Oct 24th, 2007 at 6:26pm
 
derrick wrote on Oct 24th, 2007 at 4:47pm:
… in order to comply with our NHS contract …

I would not want to be too hard on Ms Fowler, who is doing more than many in her position would. She may however need to be reminded that to comply with its GMS contract with the PCT a practice may not accept remuneration from patients, including “through any other person”.

This must preclude accepting money obtained from patients calling revenue sharing telephone numbers, no matter how it is spent.

David
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #407 - Oct 26th, 2007 at 12:36pm
 
http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/mostpopular.var.1787561.mostviewed.cost_of_be...

Cost of being sick is rising
By Stephanie Tye

<<
A DOCTOR'S surgery has come under attack for introducing a more expensive telephone number.

Coun Justin Tomlinson (Con, Abbey Meads) said he was horrified at the move by Abbey Meads Medical Centre.

He said he has been in touch with a number of residents who have complained they now pay more when they call to book appointments.

The surgery, in the village centre, uses an 0844 number, rather than a local number.

"I have been contacted by a number of residents regarding this issue," said Coun Tomlinson.

"I am horrified at this financial penalty being forced on those who wish to use the local NHS service.

"All too often additional stealth taxes and charges are creeping into a service which we already fund through ever-increasing taxes."

James Bickerstaffe, who has been a patient at the surgery since 1999, said people were not told of the change of telephone number.

"It has been the 0844 number for a while now, but I only found out about it when I rang to book an appointment and was told to ring the new telephone number," said the 32-year-old, of Abbey Meads.

"I hadn't thought much about it, until I had to call and make an appointment on October 3 and was kept on the phone for a long time."

The civil servant was calling from his mobile phone, so he contacted the billing company to find out how much he had been charged.

According to BT, calls to an 0844 number cost up to 5p a minute for their own customers, but can vary for mobiles and other operators.

And Mr Bickerstaffe said he was shocked when the mobile phone company told him the call, which had lasted about six minutes, cost £1.36.

"I think it is disgraceful that it costs so much to book a doctors' appointment," he said.

"There are other people like me who are at work so need to use their mobiles to book appointments and it is costing a lot. I just don't understand why they changed it to this non-geographical number.

"It is supposed to be a local service so why is it not a local number.

"And why were we not told that the number was changing and that we would be charged more?"

Currently three out of the 29 doctor practices in Swindon use 0844 numbers.

A spokeswoman for Swindon Primary Care Trust said that surgeries using an 0844 number can offer many service benefits to patients through the installation of an advanced telephone system.

"GP practices can choose which telephone system to install," she said.

"But all are aware that they are prohibited from using premium rate numbers, including 087 numbers, by the Department of Health."

Despite several attempts to contact the Abbey Meads Medical Practice, no one was available to comment.
>>
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #408 - Oct 27th, 2007 at 6:06pm
 
There are 9 comments on this article currently posted on the Swindon Advertiser website and every one is critical of this doctors practice.   Some are extremely critical : ---

Posted by: MS, Swindon on 8:40am Fri 26 Oct 07
"A spokeswoman for Swindon Primary Care Trust said that surgeries using an 0844 number can offer many service benefits to patients through the installation of an advanced telephone system."       Are we really expected to believe that the number holds any bearing to the system at the other end of it? The 0844 number will route down to a local 01793 number anyway. Just another case of a service we already pay for trying to rip us off even more.

Posted by: ronnie43cats, swindon on 8:51am Fri 26 Oct 07
I am sure months ago when I was advised of this new number the change was made out to be for the better of us patients and the way it was put forward to me was it was a low cost number and was going to cost less. At the time I did wonder how this was possible with a 0844 number but who am I to question...as it is I always have difficulty getting hold of this surgery, half the time they never answer the phones, I know this is not the receptionists fault as have seen for myself how stressed it is first thing with the phones going but maybe they should offer an answerphone service seeing as the this is supposed to be, and lets quote 'an advanced telephone system.' If it is for a general appointment and the time required is not specific I would have thought phoning people back with an appointment fairly easy. Or sorry is this as they will have to bear the brunt cost wise of that phonecall? We get moaned at for not advising we cannot make an appointment but half the problem is you cannot get through in time to tell them you cannot make it and cancel. For me there have been no advancing changes in the way calls are handled since the move to this number. For example you still only have one hour in the day in which to call for text results, remembering to call between these hours is bad enough without the added pain of being at work at that time.

Posted by: Grumpy, Swindon on 9:09am Fri 26 Oct 07
My doctors surgery has also introduced the 0844 number, so say to improve services to patients. Do I believe them - no I do not! It's just another scam to generate more income. Doctors are getting to be a little grubby lately with their overwhelming desire to work less and less for more and more money.
My doctors surgery has also introduced the 0844 number, so say to improve services to patients. Do I believe them - no I do not! It's just another scam to generate more income. Doctors are getting to be a little grubby lately with their overwhelming desire to work less and less for more and more money.

Posted by: trend, swindon on 9:16am Fri 26 Oct 07
"A spokeswoman for Swindon Primary Care Trust said that surgeries using an 0844 number can offer many service benefits to patients through the installation of an advanced telephone system."    What a load of rubbish, our surgery has a normal 01793 number that has an advanced telephone system. This is just another money making scheme.

Posted by: Bri, Swindon on 10:45am Fri 26 Oct 07
What about those with hearing impairment using a relay service and it will cost a bomb just to make an appointment or contact GP. Something SHOULD be done to the PCT to make them aware.

Posted by: Justin Tomlinson, Taw Hill, Swindon on 10:56am Fri 26 Oct 07
Another thing that has annoyed the people who have contacted me is how often they are 'put on hold' or 'held in a queue' racking up the bill.

Posted by: Big Mac on 11:26am Fri 26 Oct 07
And people still think the NHS is 'free'.
You really couldn't make it up. The NHS is a massive money pit that needs completely overhauling, or, preferably, scrapping completely.
It's a 60 year old social experiment that has failed. Why can't we just accept that and use the BILLIONS they steal from us to fund it to build a national health service that actually offers a decent level of health care.
Until we stop clinging on to this notion of the NHS as some wonderful entity, it'll never improve.

Posted by: Voice of Sanity, Haydon End on 12:45pm Fri 26 Oct 07
As someone has already commented, you do not need an 0844 number to offer advanced telephony systems. This is purely a way to increase revenue for the surgery.
We are on on a monthly payment scheme with BT whereby we £20 (ish) a month to BT to cover all of our calls with the exception of mobiles and non-standard codes ie 0844 etc). I am sure there are many more like us who will be paying over the odds to book an appointment with a doctor - something which has already been paid within our taxes!

Posted by: CK, Swindon on 1:38am today
"Despite several attempts to contact the Abbey Meads Medical Practice, no one was available to comment."
Now that's a surprise.
Having had dealings with this particular surgery in the past, I found them to be rude, arrogant, incompetent at best, downright dangerous at worst and now I can add GREEDY to that.
Thankfully I'm no longer with that practice.

Abbey Meads Medical Centre and Swindon PCT should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #409 - Nov 2nd, 2007 at 12:37am
 
A media report that I missed, but may be significant:

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=132935&command=disp...

HEALTH BOSSES PLAN TO AXE COSTLY CALLS TO GP SURGERIES

BY CATHY BUSS

10:30 - 16 October 2007

<<
Health bosses today announced plans to axe expensive call charges to GP surgeries.

They say they want doctors to phase out the use of 0844 numbers which leave patients hanging on the line, clocking up premium-rate charges.

Controversy has been growing over the use of the numbers used by about a third of the city's GP practices.

Campaigners argue that patients should not be having to pay over the odds to get an appointment to see their doctor.

More than 30 people have contacted the Leicester Mercury to highlight problems they have suffered with the "0844" telephone system.

Kathleen Martin, from Whetstone, said she had spent more than £2.50 on 22 calls trying to get through to her doctor's Blaby practice.

Another patient, who did not want to be named, said he was furious at the charges trying to get through to the Merridale Medical Centre.

He said: "It is inconvenient and expensive to be kept in a queue waiting for an answer.

"At least under the old system, when it was engaged, you could put the phone down and ring back later."

Now, Leicester City Primary Care Trust (PCT) is looking at ways the surgeries can replace the numbers.

A total of 20 of the city's 63 GP practices are under contract to use 0844 numbers, which bosses want changed so patients only pay local call charges.

Work is under way to find out how much it will cost to redeem contracts early.

New systems will also be researched, along with options available offering free or local call charges.

Tim Rideout, PCT chief executive, said: "This is a complicated issue.

"But we will work with doctors to ensure no-one pays more to call their doctor's surgery than they would if they were calling any other local number."

The move has been welcomed by the PCT's patient watchdog - the patient and public involvement forum.

Stephanie Donovan, co-chairman of the forum, said: "It is good the PCT is looking at this."

Sir Peter Soulsby and Keith Vaz, Labour MPs for Leicester South and Leicester East respectively, said they were delighted at the move.

Mr Vaz said: "I fully support this. The NHS is a free service and it is wrong for anyone to be worrying about the cost of a call."

Sir Peter said: "It is quite right these numbers should be phased out."

But Gill Law, practice manager at the Maples Surgery, in Evington Road, said: "I don't mind this being looked at, but we have had very few complaints from patients.

"The number enables us to direct calls to the right person to deal with the patient inquiries."

Zuffar Haq, chairman of Leicester Patients Group, said: "Any new contracts with GPs should include a clause banning the use of any number that is above the local call rate.

"It is totally unfair for patients to be paying 10p a minute or more for calls to make appointments."

A spokesman for Leicestershire County and Rutland Primary Care Trust said it could not tell GPs to change telephone numbers, but said: "We are working to make sure the most equitable and easy access possible."
>>
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #410 - Nov 2nd, 2007 at 1:14am
 
idb wrote on Nov 2nd, 2007 at 12:37am:
A media report that I missed, but may be significant:


And an earlier report from the same newspaper:

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=132384&command=disp...

<<
'22 CALLS AND £2.50 COST TO GET TO SEE GP'

BY JENNY OUSBEY

10:30 - 15 October 2007

A woman called her doctor's surgery 22 times and spent more than £2.50 just trying to make an appointment with her GP, it emerged today.

Kathleen Martin called her medical practice in Blaby repeatedly and was mostly forced to wait in a phone queue before she got through to reception.

Mrs Martin is one of about 30 patients to have expressed their frustration at the expense and inconvenience of 0844 numbers after a Mercury story on September 21.

Many GP surgeries have switched to 0844 numbers in the past few years.

Last month, Jeffrey Kaufman, Mayor of Oadby and Wigston, urged doctors to ditch the lines, saying they cost more than standard rate calls and were inconvenient.

Harborough MP Edward Garnier has also said GPs should be accessible through an ordinary-rate phone number.

Some patients told the Mercury it was quicker to drive to surgeries to fix appointments.

Mrs Martin, of Warwick Road, Whetstone, is with The Northfield Surgery, Blaby.

Other complaints have been received about surgeries in Oadby and Clarendon Park, Leicester.

She said: "It took me 22 calls over a couple of weeks to get through to my surgery.

"I only wanted to book two appointments. Sixteen times I didn't even get in the queue, but it cost me 9.5p each time.

"The other six times I was put in a queue and the call cost ranged from 26p to 14p a time.

"When the line is engaged, you are still paying, which wouldn't have happened with the old number."

Clare Deare, practice manager at The Central surgery, in Brooksby Drive, Oadby, said: "We feel this system offers a better service because patients no longer receive as many engaged tones."

A spokesman for Clarendon Park Medical Centre said: "Due to circumstances beyond our control, there were technical issues with the telephone system.

"We have been in discussions with the company and are awaiting a letter of apology addressed to our patients.

"It is disappointing that a small group of patients have felt the need to highlight their concerns through the Mercury, as the practice welcomes discussion with patients in respect of the service we provide."

Mrs Martin is awaiting a response from her surgery.

A Leicestershire and Rutland Primary Care Trust (PCT) spokesman said: "Some practices use an 08 number because it allows them to provide a more equitable telephone service.

"Instead of patients getting an engaged tone and having to re-dial, calls can be answered in the order received and routed to different departments, instead of all calls being received at one reception point."
>>

See reader comments at

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=132384&command=disp...
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #411 - Nov 2nd, 2007 at 9:37am
 
This "not many of our patients have complained" stance really irritates me, it is like the companies who, when making unpopular changes say "but our customers tell us..." - has anyone ever been asked anything by a company and had that company listen to their reply???   I suspect there are two reasons why GP practices may not receive large numbers of complaints:
1)   Surgeries don't seem to bother to tell patients about the change, it is only discovered when a patient needs to call the surgery hence they are either understandably too preoccupied with their health problem or the complaints are received over an extended period of time as patients become aware of the change.

2)   This second may be even more of an issue, that patients are scared to criticise their doctors or surgeries for fear of being punished with, for example, being removed from their GP's list or receiving inferior treatment (I know that shouldn't happen but could anyone say it never does?)   There is still an enormous reluctance, particularly among older people, to question ANYTHING a GP or doctor says or does (as my elderly father said last year when summoned for an unecessary test "you can't ask the doctors questions!")
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #412 - Nov 2nd, 2007 at 9:56am
 
Barbara wrote on Nov 2nd, 2007 at 9:37am:
This "not many of our patients have complained" stance really irritates me, it is like the companies who, when making unpopular changes say "but our customers tell us..." - has anyone ever been asked anything by a company and had that company listen to their reply???   I suspect there are two reasons why GP practices may not receive large numbers of complaints:
1)   Surgeries don't seem to bother to tell patients about the change, it is only discovered when a patient needs to call the surgery hence they are either understandably too preoccupied with their health problem or the complaints are received over an extended period of time as patients become aware of the change.

2)   This second may be even more of an issue, that patients are scared to criticise their doctors or surgeries for fear of being punished with, for example, being removed from their GP's list or receiving inferior treatment (I know that shouldn't happen but could anyone say it never does?)   There is still an enormous reluctance, particularly among older people, to question ANYTHING a GP or doctor says or does (as my elderly father said last year when summoned for an unecessary test "you can't ask the doctors questions!")


That last paragraph is very true. It is my understanding that a doctor can 'strike you off' and does not have to give you a reason. They earn huge amounts of money from being a GP plus all the private work they do. If you go and see them with a problem, usually, when it gets abit difficult for them they refer you to someone else.

Why don't they just be honest with their patients and admit that this new telephone sysytem is nothing other than to earn them even more money. Angry
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #413 - Nov 6th, 2007 at 12:52am
 
http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/mostpopular.var.1808117.mostviewed.patients_to_ha...

Patients to have say on 0844 numbers
By James Connell

<<
PATIENTS are being given the chance to say whether they want their surgery to cancel its 0844 telephone number.

Debbie Weston, practice manager at Ombersley Medical Centre, has taken the step of allowing patients to decide whether or not they keep the 0844 telephone number.

The centre even released a newsletter, letting people know they could register their views.

So far only three people out of the 4,070 patients on the books have been recorded as saying they want the number changed back to an ordinary local rate number.

The centre charges calls at 5p per minute - one pence more expensive than the local rate.

Patients have until the end of November to make their feelings known.

She said: "It's a much better service as it is and the telephone system stops people having to wait. There are no queues. I think people realise that to charge one pence extra per minute is not that bad. Our telephone service is much more efficient now. We have been corresponding with the PCT and they have more or less agreed that we're not charging excessively."

Mike Foster MP who wrote to health Secretary Alan Johnson in August urging him to ban all 0844 numbers admitted he had not yet had a reply.

He said: "I haven't heard back from him yet. I know that the debate has now kicked off across the country. I will ring my office now to get them to chase up the reply."

A spokesman for Worcestershire Primary Care Trust said: "The situation is that as independent contractors the GP surgeries determine the type of telephone systems they have in their surgery. We will, as far as the future is concerned, recommend that they don't employ 0844 numbers. However, it may not be particularly easy for them to disengage themselves from certain contracts."

Eleven surgeries across Worcestershire use 0844 numbers, including St John's House Surgery, Bromyard Road St John's, Worcester.

One of the telephone system's fiercest critics is amputee Sue Davis from St John's who has used the St John's House Surgery for 35 years and has appeared on BBC Breakfast to state her case.

She said: "I think the bad publicity may stop a number of GPs from adopting 0844 numbers. People will realise there's a general feeling in the country against doctors charging people for phoning them. The National Health Service is supposed to be free at the point of delivery. If you're ill and you have to pay for that call, then it's not."


9:32am Monday 5th November 2007

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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #414 - Nov 7th, 2007 at 1:21pm
 
I am now being threatened with legal action for harassment etc, something that I have not done, I have only requested that they act to stop this abuse of patients, but I appear to have hit a nerve!

This letter was received today,6 days after it is dated and 2 days after the postmark;-

1 November 2007

Dear Mr ******

Your Complaint in respect of GP's use of 0844 numbers.

In respect of the above I would like to make the following points;

In the course of the last three months, our complaints department together with other staff members have received at least seven emails and numerous telephone calls from you about this matter, which they have treated seriously and investigated thoroughly. These members of staff have treated you courteously and endeavoured to keep you fully informed.

To reiterate here, what you have been told previously, remains the PCT position at this time,

1)      General Practitioners are independent contractors and responsible for making their
own telephone arrangements.

2)      The Guidance and advice circulated  on this matter by Lord Warner and the
Department of Health, has been brought to the attention of GP's by the PCT,
however as it is guidance only, there are no sanctions available to   the PCT to
ensure that it is followed by our contractors.

3)      The PCT has taken steps to address this matter with its contractors through the
Local Medical Committee, bringing to the Committee's attention the official guidance
on the subject.

4)      The PCT has asked for further guidance from the Department of Health, on this
matter and is awaiting an official response.

5)      The PCT has also sought legal advice, and is satisfied that it has discharged its
responsibilities at this time.

The Trust has done all it can at this time to address the issues you have raised, should circumstances change in light of further guidance from the Department of Health we will undertake to write to you to keep you informed. If you still feel that the issue is unresolved you are entitled to follow the appeals procedure and either ask the Healthcare Commission to conduct an independent review or contact the Independent Complaints Advocacy Service (see contact details and explanatory notes at the end of this correspondence). You are therefore advised that until further Department of Health guidance is issued in respect of this matter the PCT has nothing further to add and will not engage in any future correspondence in respect of this issue.

Whilst I appreciate that you feel strongly about this matter and feel you are acting in the interest of your fellow service users, I must point out that the way in which you have undertaken your campaign has caused distress to Trust staff in particular Christine Martin and Carol Hannon, who feel they have been subject to aggression, intimidation and harassment through both your written and verbal communications. I must ask you to therefore to desist from contacting the PCT or its staff in relation to this matter. Failure to do so will be considered by this organisation as a continued course of harassment which could result in the Trust taking one of the following actions:

•      The matter will be reported to the police with a view to this health body supporting a
criminal prosecution by the Crown Prosecution Service.

•      The matter will  be reported to the NHS Security Management Service Legal
Protection Unit with a view to this health body supporting criminal or civil proceedings
or other sanctions. Any legal costs incurred will be sought from yourself.

•      Consideration will be given to obtaining a civil injunction in the appropriate terms.
Any legal costs incurred will be sought from yourself.

Behaviour such as this is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. This Trust is firmly of the view that all those who work in or provide services to the NHS have the right to work in safety and to do so without fear of intimidation, abuse or violence. It is sincerely hoped that such action will not be necessary.

A copy of this letter is attached. Please sign the second copy and return it to me to indicate that you have read and understood the above warning and agree not to act in a threatening, abusive or intimidating way to NHS employees or staff employed in the provision of Primary Care services in Central Lancashire.

If you do not reply within 14 days I shall assume tacit agreement.

Yours sincerely


Mark Wilkinson
Chief Executive


Explanatory notes re appeals

You have the right to ask the healthcare commission for an independent review of your case. This should be done within six months of the date of this letter. The Healthcare Commission is an independent body established to promote improvements in healthcare through the assessment of the performance of those who provide services. You can contact the healthcare commission on telephone number 020 7448 9200, or write to healthcare commission, FREEPOST NAT 18958, Complaints Investigation Team, Manchester, M1 9XZ.

Website:      www.healthcarecommission.org.uk

E-mail:      complaints@healthcarecommission.org.uk

Alternatively, The Independent Complaints Advocacy Service (ICAS) will be able to advise you. The Telephone number for ICAS is 01772 994065


I have never threatened or harassed or intimidated any one at the PCT!
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #415 - Nov 7th, 2007 at 1:49pm
 
Derrick,

This is quite blatant intimidation of the sort we would more expect a scammer like NEG to use.

You need to go to the Health Care Commission on this and to your MP for backup.  There is no justification for the attitude of this body when it is they who are acting outrageously in failing to protect the public and forcing you to take them to task on it.  Unfortunately there are always one or two CEOs who think they are God and this guy is clearly one of them.

I suspect a local journalist would even be interested in covering this threat letter.

There is no way they will follow through on these threats (the Police threat is just a joke).  It is just old fashioned scare tactics and virtually tantamount to a form of blackmail to stop you pursuing your legitimate complaint.

I note he requires you to sign up in 14 days but if you don't sign then takes it as agreement to the conditions anyway.  This man is a dictator of the worst sort.  Write back and formally state that you do not agree to any of his conditions (send an email ther is no signature he can misuse anywhere) and will be complaining to your MP and the Health Care Commission about his letter and this blatant attempt to intimidate you out of pursuing your legitimate complaint.  I must say this form of reaction is very typical indeed of those involved in the UK medical profession who have always had a distinctly disturbing tendence to behave in an authoritarian fashion
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #416 - Nov 7th, 2007 at 2:29pm
 
...and I would suggest you send a similar letter back telling them not to send you threatning letters which I would have thought to  be illeagal.
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #417 - Nov 7th, 2007 at 3:37pm
 
sherbert wrote on Nov 7th, 2007 at 2:29pm:
...and I would suggest you send a similar letter back telling them not to send you threatning letters which I would have thought to  be illeagal.


Getting one's MP to write to this guy in those terms would probably be even more effective though.

Even those old fashioned psychopaths who still get to the top of some organisations are usually afraid of and grovel to the power of an MP to put them on the spot and ask Parliamentary questions about them.
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #418 - Nov 8th, 2007 at 3:46pm
 
Poor Derrick, I think that is absolutely dreadful.  It is an awful feeling to be wrongly accused and threatened in such a way.   I didn't think a PCT could act like that (although am I really surprised after the practice manager at our surgery threatened to remove our epileptic son from the list because I complained to the PCT about the surgery reducing prescribing intervals to 28 days!)   It is about time these people remembered who pays their wages and it IS us through taxation.   Good luck with fighting this, don't be discouraged or intimidated, I'm sure we're all behind you.
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Re: NEG propaganda
Reply #419 - Nov 8th, 2007 at 3:47pm
 
I have to say if I had received that letter from Mark Wilkinson I would have been very upset indeed. You only have to review Derrick's posts to see he is a model of moderation!
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